Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

OmniSScythe

[CSE] Makoto Nanaya's General Gameplay Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

Could someone help me calculate the frame data for 2D LV1 corner setups? The untechable time listed on the wiki's chart assumes that they don't hit the ground before it ends. Characters hit the ground a lot faster than 45 frames after jD LV3 > 2D LV1 and I want to calculate how strong of a safe jump setup it can create. If it's totally safe then she can create a very ambiguous high/low/throw mix-up off of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2B > 5B > 6A works exactly the same except for situations where the combo has gotten too prorated. In those cases just use a different ender like 2D LV1 or 214ACA. Valkenhyn has the same strange hitbox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just picked up Makoto in extend and I was having problems connecting 5C after 214A->D (shooting star) in the corner, anyone have tips to get it to work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to hit them really high with the 214A~D, otherwise they'll touch the ground before you can get 5C out.

Combo example (corner): 5CC > 5D > 66 > 5B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~D > 5CC > j.B > jc > j.D > ender

Above combo is hitbox-specific due to Valkenhayn and Jin not being OTG'd by 5B. You also have to hit with the tip of 2C and link the 5C after 214A~D correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You need to hit them really high with the 214A~D, otherwise they'll touch the ground before you can get 5C out.

Combo example (corner): 5CC > 5D > 66 > 5B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~D > 5CC > j.B > jc > j.D > ender

Above combo is hitbox-specific due to Valkenhayn and Jin not being OTG'd by 5B. You also have to hit with the tip of 2C and link the 5C after 214A~D correctly.

Also, hitting them as high from the ground as possible lets the 214AD hit during its later active frames. The attack is very meaty at 10 active frames so doing this makes it VERY easy to follow up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, time for some discoveries:

Aside from the midscreen to corner use of BBS, it is also possible to combo it after hitting someone very high with 2D. For example (using 5CC starter, because I'm pretty sure it won't work with lower proration): 5CC > 5D > 5B > 5CC > 2D > BBS (this needs to be level 2, otherwise the opponent won't fall into the active frames and your recovery is too high on level 3) > 66 > 5CC > j.B > j.D > PF

The problem is, te optimal combo I tried nets somewhere around 5k, the same as if you'd go for a 5B > 6A > 2D > 2C > 214A~D > stuff combo with PF ender, effectively wasting 50 heat for style. Maybe there's something to be had with a 2C Fatal, since that's the only other opportunity I know of to connect 214A~D and make it comboable for great damage, so that you can use 2D > BBS without unnecessarily spending 50 meter.

Another thing: You can actually combo 5D > 2C if you hit the opponent in mid-air, for example after a 2D. This is probably useful for converting random hits/situational opportunities into damage rather than general combos, but it's useful to know either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Optimal midscreen combo from forward throw:

B+C > 214AA > small pause > 66A > 2D LV3 > 214ACB > 5CC > jB > JC > jD LV3 > 2C > 236AD LV3 > 66A > 5D LV3 > 2362366D

4470 damage is the maximum assuming all LV3 on the PF (LV2 on the first hit makes it easier to land). Dash buffering PF is pretty friggin' hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you mean Particle Flare? And in a combo like that the risk reward to go level 3 on first is almost none, you get like 50 more dmg total.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Would you mean Particle Flare? And in a combo like that the risk reward to go level 3 on first is almost none, you get like 50 more dmg total.
Yes after a couple times landing it I finally got level 3 to work and it's super hard... and it's only 30 damage lol. Still, that's the maximum!

EDIT: Take it back, dashing in with 2B and immediately doing PF adds in a TINY bit more damage and removes the need to dash buffer the super.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

her neutral game was severely nerfed but you have to concentrate on spacing and good poks with either 5b 2a or 5a this will at least keep some of the smarter players in check but the probles are the people who like to mash. You would have to hit 5b really early while dashing and she does a little slide and hits the oppinent. If you hit them with 5b or 2a while they are standing you would do 5cc 214ac-cccccccc. if they're crouching you'd have to do the same thing except 214ac-b into a croner push and work from there. other than that you would need meter or a OH to get your opponent to the corner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was looking at the leader boards for makoto on xbox and the bottom 50 players were 0 and something and still were rank 200.

At that moment i thought to myself "Wow, my character's community is dying!" (T~T)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
her neutral game was severely nerfed
her neutral was hardly change... most of her nerfs were to damage or melee pressure. the trajectory on 214B/C are different and 3C is a bit worse and that's really it.

Can't you just 6c>PF on that combos? and i think 665CC>PF also still works.
The proration is work up really high so they might not work (6C is slower, 5C needs you to run closer). I'll try it when I get home.

Some notes I've been taking regarding Makoto -

One of the most important things to remember for Makoto is the importance of punishing people who don't emergency tech. Thinking they're clever or it will get them out of oki. If you have 50 meter then picking up people with 2B > (5B >) Particle Flare is a nice 1240+ damage way to say FUCK THAT! Otherwise if people don't tech after 214ACC or 623CD then you get more free damage + better corner carry.

I did some grinding in training mode to better calculate the frame data. 2D LV1 and 214ACC don't work as safe jump setups against people with 7 frame DPs. This only makes me hate Ragna more. However this isn't street fighter and people can block in the air, so they do create decent high/low/throw/block mix-up after an emergency tech. This is part of why it's important to train people take the tech instead of lay on the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again adding to what Eshi said (sorry, you just bring up important points xD):

Learn to delay your 623C~D to the maximum after a short air combo midscreen. A level 3 knockdown close to the ground is somewhat hard to emergency tech, and - given that you're doing it correctly - you will land and recover fast enough to punish them with a pick-up. What I've been told: they can't regular tech in time (keep in mind that I'm relying on others for that and haven't tested it properly yet), giving you a substantial amount of additional damage and heat. This requires decent proration to get a proper knockdown in your favour afterwards, of course (otherwise you can't delay the second 623C~D).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys, newb question here: I'm not sure about you guys on the basic BnB (5B 5CC 214AC~) but, I have a bit of trouble getting this combo to connect consistenly. After 5CC, 214AC~ doesn't connect sometime and I get punished for it... What are some tips to fix this? :( Thank you guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buffer 214 before 5CC, and press the A right when 5CC hit.

@eshi : I see 6a>5d near the end of your combos so i don't think the proration is that severe, so i thought 6c might work ... haven't got time to test it, but i'll try tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×