[AC+R] News & Gameplay Discussion

[Hecatom]

Back on topic: Do we have any kind of timeline for GGXXAC coming out or is it all still up in the air? (i.e. how many months to I have do practice so I don't get absolutely stomped online? )

its still in the air, theorically they would have show something about it on AOU, but as far as i know there is not any new info yet

[Roldy]

its still in the air, theorically they would have show something about it on AOU, but as far as i know there is not any new info yet

Yeah, didn't they say they were showing GG at AOU 2012? Either they only showed a video or security was tight as hell around the cabs.

[Blade]

Something I'm kinda hoping for: a normal display mode for non-HD TVs. :D

Yeah I know, blessing in disguise and all that...but still. I haven't gotten an HD TV for BlazBlue yet, so I'd appreciate something like this coming down the pipe.

And while I'm at it...here's hoping for Dreamcast-quality sprites and sounds.

[Shiawase]

Something I'm kinda hoping for: a normal display mode for non-HD TVs. :D

Yeah I know, blessing in disguise and all that...but still. I haven't gotten an HD TV for BlazBlue yet, so I'd appreciate something like this coming down the pipe.

I'm sure we are part of the minority here but I would like this as well. I know that it's 2012 and blah blah blah but still not everyone has the money to buy a fancy, lag-less HDTV.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Shiawase

[qwerty]

I was about to say that Arcsys supporting 4:3 is a given, but then I remembered AH3.

Cross those fingers.

[milesokeefe]

After seeing what a game rebalancing did for the SF2 scene, I can't say I recommend it for AC.

[Dream Maker]

The core of the argument is that you enjoy slower paced games like GG / and Blazblue, while there are others who prefer the bigger damage and reward of GGAC. Because of your preference, you want GGAC to be changed.

Wrong. I enjoy GGAC way more than GG/ and even more than Blazblue whatever version you're talking about.

I hope for changes on AC because I believe this is the best way to give a new momentum to the series and avoid a new desertion of the game. You may disagree with me and I may be wrong, but you are totally missing my point here. The fact that the game is coming both on console and arcade is IMO a strong hint that there will be changes anyway from vanilla AC as minor as they may be. Arcade players won't see the point of a new GG coming to arcade otherwise...

And btw, citing capcom games as an example for rebalancing is a joke, Capcom is not particularly known for successfully rebalancing their games each time they make a new iteration of them, look at the vampire series in which only the old vampire savior is played competitively, and the SF2 series too. Arc sys on the other hand has a way better history in this domain, you generally see a positive trend as for rebalancing if you look at the overall evolution of the GG series or the BB series. So I trust they won't totally fuck things up if they do want to change GGAC.

And I too find strange that no vids or reports are up yet, I'll try to check jap BBS and if I have news I'll let you guys now.

PS : after a rapid check, no news or reports found so far here but people are already making changes wishing lists in this thread.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Dream Maker

[Shining Aquas]

Balance changes? The game seems pretty balanced, in my opinion.

I mean re-balancing could be cool

-Little Eddie's puddle and twin slash changed to mids instead of lows

-Little Eddie recharge meter doesn't auto refill when unsummoned. Command Grab instantly fills Little Eddie meter.

-EXE Beast on Testament vanishes if Testament is hit, unless you FRC.

-Add an FRC to Anji's butterfly on the release

-Hitbox on Johnny's 5S extends downward a tad

-Improve Bridget's combo damage, but not her poke damage.

-Remove Slayer from the game, but only in Norcal

Honestly though, the game is pretty damn balanced.

[Shiawase]

http://iplaywinner.com/news/2012/2/27/cognitive-dissonance-the-return-of-guilty-gear.html

New article on IPW. It doesn't have any new info but it talks about some problems the game could have with online play. Basically it looks at the release from a logical standpoint compared to our "HYPE HYPE HYPE!!" mentality.

[Ronin Jinobi]

Pretty interesting take, and more than likely a realistic way of looking at it. Regardless I'm pumped for dat release

-Improve Bridget's combo damage, but not his poke damage.

Fixed that for ya.

-Remove Slayer from the game, but only in Norcal.

I lol'd.

[Shiawase]

Pretty interesting take, and more than likely a realistic way of looking at it. Regardless I'm pumped for dat release

Oh don't get my wrong I'm really excited too. I just think that some people are setting themselves up for disappointment. I'm going to laugh when someone makes a "Arcsys screwed up. They should fix this, this, and this" thread.

[Ronin Jinobi]

lol that type of stuff is inevitable. Can't please everyone :/ It's easily avoided as long as people are content with just expecting a port rather an overhaul...but how often does that happen

[milesokeefe]

I reject the premise that Guilty Gear's timing requirements preclude it from enjoying decent netcode.

SF2 can be chopped into very tiny slices of time. It makes you deal with one frame windows to attempt reversal throws and shoryukens all the damn time. Like Guilty Gear, it was made in the days before online play.

Now, AE and HF were awful online, but the 360 port of HD Remix had delay free netcode that could provide a solid playing experience up to about 110 ping territory. You reliably do 1 button reversals and reversal throws online. Bear in mind you had a one frame window to press the final input of those commands, not 2 to 4 - anything with a 2-4 frame window was of course perfectly possible to accomplish online as well.

In return for the lack of delay, you had to deal with rollback. In my experience, rollback wasn't really noticeable til you got into 100 ping territory. 180+ ping games could look pretty ridiculous.

The PS3 port also had delay free netcode, but it had 1-2 frames add input delay. It was not the preferred platform for tournament play.

If HDR could have delay free netcode, I think Guilty Gear could, too. HDR SF2 was not remade from the ground up with netplay in mind, netcode was imposed upon the original SF2 code. Whether Guilty Gear *will* have delay free netcode or not, is another story.

I'm hoping for 0-3 frames total delay.

4-5 I'd tolerate, but it'd play in a soupy, PS3 HDR-ish way, ugh ugh ugh compared to offline on PS2.

6+ = no thanks

[MasamuneXGP]

... even with the best netcode, the game will not translate well to online play.

Statements like this make me very angry.

As far as I've experienced, the game with the best netcode is IaMP. It was implemented by fans, and implemented years ago. It's a simple formula: The player sets the maximum number of rollback frames. When you start a match, the ping is measured, and if it's over either player's maximum, input delay covers whatever rollback doesn't. Critically, both players are made aware of how many frames of input delay there will be, and it does not vary through the match. This can result in weirdness if you have an unstable connection, like wifi, but if the connection is stable on both sides then it is absolutely optimal. If you have a reasonable ping, the match is lag-free, and even cross-country would only have 2-3 frames of delay. Now, I admit that it's possible there is some technical reason that that style of netcode could not be implemented for GG, but I find it unlikely.

The main reason why I think Arcsys might not want to do this is because it requires letting go of a few marketing principles. "Rollback" and "Delay Frames" are terms too technical for casuals, so they shouldn't be visible or settable, says marketing. Constant/settable delay causes weirdness for unstable connections, and that can look like buggy code on our part, says marketing. I really hope that Arcsys understands this game is too old for most casuals to care about. The people that are going to buy it ARE the people that care about having such settings.

BlazBlue had excellent netcode, but as the article pointed out, it would not be sufficient for GG. The only way it will be playable is with rollbacks and constant input delay.

We've waited for so long Arcsys. Please, please don't let us down. Please prioritize good functionality over "having it look nice even when one player is in outer space".

[BladeOfJustice7]

I really hope that Arcsys understands this game is too old for most casuals to care about.

Statements like this makes me mad.

[reaVer]

Statements like this make me very angry.

Statements like that are the truth. And I know truth is annoying and all, but Guilty Gear; ESPECIALLY Guilty Gear is not build for netplay. BlazBlue on the other hand is build for netplay.

As far as I've experienced, the game with the best netcode is IaMP. It was implemented by fans, and implemented years ago. It's a simple formula: The player sets the maximum number of rollback frames. When you start a match, the ping is measured, and if it's over either player's maximum, input delay covers whatever rollback doesn't. Critically, both players are made aware of how many frames of input delay there will be, and it does not vary through the match. This can result in weirdness if you have an unstable connection, like wifi, but if the connection is stable on both sides then it is absolutely optimal. If you have a reasonable ping, the match is lag-free, and even cross-country would only have 2-3 frames of delay. Now, I admit that it's possible there is some technical reason that that style of netcode could not be implemented for GG, but I find it unlikely.

Rollback does not solve everything, rollback still causes a frameskip in between the rollback events. It still makes 3 frame moves 1 frame even when the delay setting is set to 2. And with higher delay it just goes up. Now it doesn't mean that GG cannot be played online, but you can't play it the exact same way as you can offline.

Statements like this makes me mad.

If you think this is a release for casual gamers, you're in for a disappointment. Not only does the current FG community think that SF4 is the most advanced game ever, noone wants to see sprites and it goes without saying that the average gamer simply doesn't have the ability to play GG. Again, truth is annoying, I know..

[WolfCrimson]

Just gonna throw this here: Do you think ArcSys will implement 'advance input' (like the one in BB) in GG, to make it play better online?

Edit: Would it even be a good idea?

Edited February 28, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[Hecatom]

Just gonna throw this here: Do you think ArcSys will implement 'advance input' (like the one in BB) in GG, to make it play better online?

Edit: Would it even be a good idea?

no and no, it can potentially change the way that the game is meant to be played, leave that kind of changes for a true sequel, not a revition

what they can actually add, imo, is the easy frc windows that they added on GGAC+ for ps3, let the people use it online, and for the people who could be potentially annoyed by this feature, let them filtter this option off

and letting all the dip switches of GGAC+ (CRC, YRC, wallbounce, floor bounce, wall stick, etc) be used online could add a lot of stuff and fun for those who like GG but arent dedicated enough/ dont have the time to play it seriously

[Blade]

All I know is, casual gamers are idiots as far as I'm concerned. They'd rather play Call of Duty and camp in a safe spot and snipe all day and troll on the mic than play awesome games like Guilty Gear.

Fine by me, I play what I like anyway.

[Kyosuke Kagami]

Quick question (related to this): is Waifus Heart 3, timing wise, more demanding than BB?

If so, then I guess the Arcsys netcode could work for GGAC+. If AH3 is online playable with it, I don't see how AC+ couldn't.

[destruction_adv]

If you think this is a release for casual gamers, you're in for a disappointment. Not only does the current FG community think that SF4 is the most advanced game ever, noone wants to see sprites and it goes without saying that the average gamer simply doesn't have the ability to play GG. Again, truth is annoying, I know..

I gotta agree, GG takes a load of effort to play.

[Blade]

Effort!? GG is probably the most interesting fighting game I've played in years aside from BlazBlue and Samurai Showdown...I mean, okay, the fighting game mechanics take time to learn, yeah, but once you get past that and start tinkering around with what everbody can do it becomes fun.

Wow, it's not like pulling teeth here...it's not even that much of a wallbanger compared to UMvC3 or SSFIVAE...

[5thStrike]

Effort!? GG is probably the most interesting fighting game I've played in years aside from BlazBlue and Samurai Showdown...I mean, okay, the fighting game mechanics take time to learn, yeah, but once you get past that and start tinkering around with what everbody can do it becomes fun.

Definitely. I just picked up GG AC a few days ago and I'm having so much fun with it.

[Neithan]

I want Kliff to be able to shout "FUS DO RAH".

[destruction_adv]

Effort!? GG is probably the most interesting fighting game I've played in years aside from BlazBlue and Samurai Showdown...I mean, okay, the fighting game mechanics take time to learn, yeah, but once you get past that and start tinkering around with what everbody can do it becomes fun.

Wow, it's not like pulling teeth here...it's not even that much of a wallbanger compared to UMvC3 or SSFIVAE...

No one said giving effort had to be boring, but you do have to put a lot more time into learning GG than say BB, or at least I did. It never feels boring though.