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Can one of you guys confirm Order Sol's 2D range nerf? That one does have me worried.

according to http://ggxx.jugem.jp/?eid=606#sequel 2d might have gotten shorter and possibly slower startup, but floats higher, so 2D chargecancel c.S worked vs May (no CH business mentioned, so I assume on normal hit 2d)

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Could we possibly have all the information gathered together and added to the OP, for the sake of convenience?

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Could we possibly have all the information gathered together and added to the OP, for the sake of convenience?

I'm working on it, will post here when done. There's a lot of changes in the video too that weren't picked up as well, those will be in there too.

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Is it just me or have there been no reports on Kliff yet?

i don't think anyone has said anything about kliff aside from the changes noted in the video

also anyone who was there know if the bridget yoyo call back glitch was left in

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[Axl]

Axl Bomber no longer an overhead

sad face

[Justice]

Lost triple jump, ground dash and triple airdash

wait what?

i can understand taking his/her air movement options for the sake of balance (though it makes me very sad) but taking the ground dash??

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Why do the Faust buffs seem so weak?

Or are they banking on monitor lag being significant indirect buffs to his j.2K overhead and command throw? Monitor lag goes both ways for his pokes when it comes to reacting, but I could be wrong on the payoffs. Unless FB door is way faster than it seems, even with monitor lag it's a gimmick that requires a lot of tension to count for much. The item changes seem underwhelming at the moment.

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after reading the rest of the thread...

no info about chipp :gonk:

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^ Same for Bridget. I just have to know if she still has her yo-yo glitch

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Okay, I've updated Dream Maker's original change list to add in a bunch of changes as seen in the trailer (in bold), as well as all of the loketest notes (in italics) to distinguish from the other, confirmed changes.

Main changes as listed on the character pages + those seen on the video + those reported on loketests:

Overall changes:

- Health bar is now green when full, and changes and stays at orange when you take any damage.

- Combo counter now shows which hit was techable for black beat combos.

- Stun/stagger meter added below the joystick waggling icon, shows how much stun is left.

- Slashback has longer hitstop (was 2F) which makes it more realistic to SB multi-hit moves (eg. Dark Angel).

- Slashback failure penalty changed - instead of being unable to block for 30F, guard guage increases instead.

- Doing an IB in the air causes a "Guard Clean" (?)

A.B,A:

- Goku Moroha mode: damage up, damage penalty from hits landed reduced, longer duration, more powerful overall.

- 236D FB fireball in Moroha or Goku Moroha: more hits, travel distance increased.

- 5H now gatlings to 2H.

- 5H now vacuums in on second hit, has slower startup, cannot be comboed from far 5S.

- Moroha mode gauge moved to be above tension gauge.

- Now has 4 bloodpacks, up from 3.

- Can't do double Keygrab anymore.

Anji Mito:

- 6HS: FRC changed to be just before the move hits.

- FB On (623D): New FB, FRC possible right after the move hits, not possible to combo after (yet).

- 2H, 6H new gatling, combos on crouching hit only.

- 6H is now special cancellable.

- FB Butterfly (236D) travels farther.

- K Stomp (214K) causes a smaller ground bounce.

- Fuujin (236S/H) has shorter untechable time.

- 3S cancel is easier.

- Close 5S increases the guard gauge more.

- 3K no longer floats opponent.

Axl:

- P, 2P, 6K, 2S, 2HS, jump 6P, jump S: you now hold the button to get the 2nd hit of each move.

- Raieisageki (63214H): FRC removed.

- FB Kyokusageki added, 4 (charge) 6 D, has vacuum effect. Combos after 5H, but not after 2D.

- 5P-6K is now possible as a gatling.

- Axl Bomber no longer hits overhead.

- 623P counter on CH causes a different wall bounce.

- Rensengeki followup upwards (charge 4, 6S, then up) hitbox modified, can combo from CH trades.

- Close 5S looks different.

Baiken:

- Youshijin: new command is 623P, not possible as guard cancel anymore but only as a normal special move.

- Zakuro: Return of the "wheel counter" from GGX / EX mode, command is 214P while guarding. Seems very fast, but not possible to combo afterwards.

- Suzuran (run): now possible to do guard cancels during the last part of the animation. Recovery time seems longer.

- Tatami (236K): hits twice, knockdown on second hit. Wall bounce on first hit.

- Air Tatami (j.236K): Hits twice; if you hit with it below the opponent, 2nd hit whiffs and you can continue to combo. Knocks down in a down-forward direction unless wall is close, then it wallbounces.

- j.D FRC has changed.

Bridget:

- 6K: now possible to cancel on hit into yoyo or any special move.

- FB Roger Rush (236D): is now homing towards the enemy, causes wall stick.

Chipp Zanuff:

- FB Alpha Blade: New FB, command is D at the end of 236P (similar to Alpha Plus), causes wall stick.

- FB Beta Blade: New FB, command is 623D, does two uppercuts: first one does 1 hit, second one does 3 hits.

- FB Gamma Blade (41236D): new FB, holds opponent longer than normal Gamma Blade.

Dizzy:

- New FB version of Spear (421D), 3 homing blades.

- K fish and followup bites 3 times.

- Fish laser (214S) causes wall stick.

- Text above tension bar (BIT NG) indicates if it's not possible to summon fish.

Eddie:

- FB Exhaustion (236D): Possible to recover eddie gauge over the normal limit with this move, command changed to 214D. Adds another full Eddie gauge, ~46 frames total. Only recovers gauge if the shadow gauge is onscreen. Is cancellable.

- Executor (first hit) causes extra long knockdown state.

- Shadow gauge moved above tension bar.

- Shadow gauge seems to remain on screen, even when full, for some time. First level of bar is blue, second level (when charged with FB EXhaustion) is purple.

- FB Drill Special (22D) has longer recovery; cannot combo 5P after -D- + 22D unblockable.

- Nobiru (Shadow S) no longer hits sliding opponents, possible hitbox change.

- Damned Fang (623S command throw): Possible FRC removal or timing change.

- Shadow gauge refill is slower, both on unsummon and if shadow is hit.

- Unblockables still work as usual.

- 6P and Shadow Gallery nerfed (?)

Faust:

- FB door added, D after 214K.

- New thrown items: konbu (eatable, recovers HP) and dumbbell (high stun, causes knockdown).

- Coin item can now hit while bouncing on the ground.

- 5K CH doesn't knock the enemy away anymore.

- Pan item now hits 1 screen away.

I-No:

- FB Note (214D): New FB, FRC possible right after startup, sends 2 notes (one up, one across).

- Can now airdash twice.

- Horizontal Chemical Love causes wall bounce.

Jam:

- Can do the powered up versions of kick specials directly (using D) if you have the power up cards, no need to perform as followups anymore.

- FB Charge (22D): Now gives one card of each.

- 6H no longer wall sticks, causes knockdown instead.

- FB Puffball no longer wall sticks, causes knockdown instead. Possibly slower startup.

Johnny:

- Coin (214H): New move, coin is thrown upwards with same trajectory as ground throw. Is not an overhead. Causes knockdown on air hit.

- j.236236H: New overdrive, looks similar to EX Johnny's.

- Divine Transport (623S) trajectory changed.

- Diving Blade changed(?).

- Mist (214P) is released quicker.

- Can double jump after a super jump (?).

Justice:

- Is intended to be balanced / tourney legal.

- Is no longer able to ground dash, triple jump, or triple airdash.

- N.B. (missiles): command changed from 421 + button to 22 + button, added P, K and D version, possible to roman cancel each of them.

- Detonation of N.B.: command changed from P to whatever button you used to trigger the move.

- Strike Back Tail: command changed from 412K to 623K.

- Michael Blade (41236H): S version added, now possible airborne.

- Gamma ray: FRC added, timing is right after the first hit.

- Forcebreak 236D now causes wall bounce instead of wall stick.

- Valkyrie Arc (236P, counter stance) doesn't work on lows.

Kliff Undersn:

- Is intended to be balanced / tourney legal.

- Sword vault (214K): FRC now possible just before the move hits.

- Dodge (214P): has new FB D followup, instant stun, Kliff has long 'coughing' recovery animation.

- 5K: Now launches.

- 2H: Now ground bounces, now gatlings to 5H.

- 6H can now be charged, does more damage. Special/super cancel removed.

- Reflex Roar (236236S): Now causes wall stick instead of wall bounce.

Ky Kiske:

- New move 3HS: Same as the old 6H pre-AC.

- New move, S raging Javelin: New S followup after vapor thrust, causes wall stick.

- Lightning (222HS): FRC now possible just after the move hits.

- FB Greed Sever (214D): new FB, 28 frame startup, causes ground bounce.

- Lightning Sphere 214D followup after charged stun edge: command changed to 4D after CSE.

- Charge Drive (236D~214D~46D) now wall sticks.

- FB Lightning Orb (236D~D) sucks opponent down more when it hits an aerial opponent.

May:

- 41236D: New FB version of dolphin summon, appears behind opponent.

- Now possible to followup vertical and horizontal dolphin with Restive Rolling (623S and 623H).

- Dolphin level for 41236+ button appears above tension gauge.

- Overhead Kiss (63214K command grab): Startup: 5F -> ~30F, May now runs forward during startup, looks the same as running animation.

- Close 5S, 5H gatling on airborne opponent no longer works.

Millia Rage:

- New j.2H: return of the old jump H from pre-Slash. Is harder to combo into.

- j.236D: FRC point added ~8-9F after input.

- FB Secret Garden: New FB, command is 214D, ~76F total recovery.

- FB Longinus (214S~D): now causes wall stick instead of sliding.

- Harder to combo after throws.

- j.K-j.D no longer combos, possibly due to slower j.D.

- FB Disc (236D) has longer recovery, disc now disappears if Millia is hit during the move (previously only disappeared if she was hit within first 3F).

- j.D causes ground slide if they touch the ground (?), previously caused slide only on CH.

- Additional time added before you can retrieve Pin (j.214S/H).

Order Sol:

- Charge gauge: When using a move the gauge depletes slower.

- Dragon Install Sakkai (632146S): Tension cost became 50% instead of 100%.

- Lvl 2 Blockhead Buster (236P) now causes wall stick instead of stagger.

- Lvl 2 Bandit Revolver (236K) now causes sliding instead of knockdown, has longer startup.

- Air Lvl 2 Bandit Revolver (j.236K) untechable time decreased, no longer knocks down after air combos.

- Lvl 2 Rock It doesn't cause ground bounce, knocks down now.

- Lvl 1 and Lvl 3 specials are still the same.

- 2D apparently has shorter range.

- Can (still) dodge Slide Head with FD.

Potemkin:

- Slide Head: FRC added right after the earthquake comes out, possible to combo after.

- Slide head causes groundbounce instead of knockdown, enemy enters normal OTG state after, full combos no longer possible unless you FRC.

- Hammerfall (Charge 4,6 S(?)): FRC timing is later.

- FB Judge Gauntlet (63214D): P followup added, cancels the animation of judge gauntlet.

- 6H causes wall bounce.

- j.S causes knockdown on air CH, otherwise knocks down.

- Megafist (236P, 214P) causes knock down.

Robo-Ky:

- 623H: Now possible airborne, FRC possible just as the ground version.

- 2H missile: Now comes back down towards opponent after a while.

- 2S: Hits twice and launches when heat gauge is over 80%.

- Currently has a bug that crashes the game if you do 2H missile the moment he overheats.

Slayer:

- Undertow: FRC added right before hit and causes ground bounce.

- Bite: command changed from 63214H to 632146H.

- New move, HS Dandy step (214H), Is like S Dandy Step but goes farther (about 2/3 of screen).

- New move, FB Dandy step (214D).

- 5H causes sliding now instead of stagger, still possible to do 5H into Pile Bunker.

- 2H now causes stagger now instead of launch, still combos into BBU.

- 2S has faster startup.

- 2D has a little more recovery.

Sol Badguy:

- Fafnir (41236H): return of the old tensionless fafnir, possible to special cancel into. Combos from far S CH, 5H, and 2D. Does not have the old FRC timing.

- FB Fafnir (41236D): possible to special cancel into, combos from 2D, causes sliding on Clean Hit.

- Tyrant Rave (fafnir followup after H or D fafnir): command changed to 64D from 46D.

- FB Sidewinder (j.236D): New move, always has Clean Hit property. Seems to have a really good hitbox.

- Bandit Bringer: Clean hit property added.

- 214K (airborne) during Dragon Install: new move. Same animation as VV followup kick, has flames, hits overhead, causes groundbounce. Can be looped, has minimum height requirement.

Testament:

- Hitomi (tree): command changed to 623S, can be done with 236S(?)

- Zeinest (web): command changed to 623H, can be done with 236H(?)

- Ruft Warrant: New move, command is 22 P or K. Doesn't hit, is only a warp.

- New FB phantom soul: command is 236D, tracks opponent.

- EXE beast - Can be held to hit after it is summoned. Can summon one while the other is charging. Both have FRCs Can still be done instantly, does 2 hits total.

- 6K hitbox appears to be smaller.

- Bad Lands range decreased, untechable time is apparently shorter, Bad Lands can no longer be looped.

Venom:

- 5Sc now gatlings into 6H.

- FB stinger aim: no longer freezes balls in place, balls pushed with this move can now bounce several times on the floor and screen borders.

- FB carcass raid: same as above.

- 6P no longer gatlings into 6H.

- 6H has faster startup.

Zappa:

- j.236H (sword mode): FRC now possible right after landing, now knocks enemy up on hit for followup combos.

- Darkness Anthem (236S, Raoh mode): now possible airborne.

- Last Edguy (214S, Raoh mode): now possible airborne.

- Icons added above tension bar for each summon.

- 632146H gives one orb per hit, maximum of 4 orbs.

- Smaller chance to summon Dog (?)

- When Dog gets hit in neutral state, he sleeps.

- Sword 2H stays in place for a bit after the animation.

If some of this info is wrong, let me know and I'll revise.

Edited by Hellmonkey

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My original point is that it seemed like some people were actually discussing changes with the idea that your inputs really will lag by 4 or more frames as represented on screen (I.E. a straight port with no measures to correct the differences of going to 720P).

But well, yes, your inputs really will lag by 4 or more frames - there's absolutely no way around that one. The only thing that can be done at this point is to redesign certain troublesome moves like command overheads, dusts, and other shenanigan / reflex-type moves, to make them easier to react to. Maybe also add in extra airdash startup time, because GG airdashes are hilarious in delay 4 environments too.

I think we could already seeing it, with May's OHK being changed to a 30 frame startup running throw, and Ky's new 28 frame FB Greed Sever overhead. These are much slower than the standard speeds of 18-24 frames that you would expect for reactable moves, in older GG games.

Edited by Teyah

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Whiff three times and your guard bar is flashing lol. Still tons more useful risk/reward than before. Plus when your character is near stun, the face portrait next to the lifebar will start to flash red. this is really useful as well, as you can tell its time to get the fuck outta dodge if your near stun.

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Whiff three times and your guard bar is flashing lol. Still tons more useful risk/reward than before. Plus when your character is near stun, the face portrait next to the lifebar will start to flash red. this is really useful as well, as you can tell its time to get the fuck outta dodge if your near stun.

That stun thing is pretty nice. I really like that one. I think when we get a console version we should be able to see the stun modifier on normals as well.

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But well, yes, your inputs really will lag by 4 or more frames - there's absolutely no way around that one. The only thing that can be done at this point is to redesign certain troublesome moves like command overheads, dusts, and other shenanigan / reflex-type moves, to make them easier to react to. Maybe also add in extra airdash startup time, because GG airdashes are hilarious in delay 4 environments too.

I think we could already seeing it, with May's OHK being changed to a 30 frame startup running throw, and Ky's new 28 frame FB Greed Sever overhead. These are much slower than the standard speeds of 18-24 frames that you would expect for reactable moves, in older GG games.

Listen, I have played all arcade fighting games in Japan, including games originally from older hardware/systems such as KOF 98/2002 UM on Nesica and there is NO input lag. These games do not have a native input buffer such as Blazblue does. The cabs are using industry grade real time displays. This is not a standard occurrence. This is not something that is common, it was a minor oversight on Arc's part in prep for the loketest. It will be adjusted in time for the HD cab upscale. Plus, when talking with the Japanese players at the loketest we were SPECIFICALLY mentioning how no other game or cab has this problem. Arc reps are at the loketest, it will be remedied.

Edited by mynus

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Whiff three times and your guard bar is flashing lol. Still tons more useful risk/reward than before. Plus when your character is near stun, the face portrait next to the lifebar will start to flash red. this is really useful as well, as you can tell its time to get the fuck outta dodge if your near stun.

oh wow that is much more drastic than i had thought, yeah i was afraid it wouldn't be that much of an increase, so the it'd be a much smaller risk than a reward

i never used SB to change my momentum (always used FD instead), i wonder which people preferred for those that used SB

also i guess someone should add that the portrait flashes close to dizzying to the list of system changes

thanks mynus

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Whiff three times and your guard bar is flashing lol. Still tons more useful risk/reward than before. Plus when your character is near stun, the face portrait next to the lifebar will start to flash red. this is really useful as well, as you can tell its time to get the fuck outta dodge if your near stun.

So if that's the case, Dizzy's face will be flashing red all day? Or did they adjust dizzy modifiers?

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Does anyone know if anything big happened to Chipp? I was practicing and I wasn't sure if he may have new combos that would be better than his old ones (not including the ones with his new moves), or maybe some old combos were taken out for whatever reason.

Practice is good, but I rather practice something that will apply to AC+R.

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Millia Rage:

- j.236D: FRC point added ~8-9F after input.

- FB Disc (236D) has longer recovery, disc now disappears if Millia is hit during the move (previously only disappeared if she was hit within first 3F).

I've been kind of confused on the FB Disc changes, so I wonder if anyone has been able to find more information on it. When Millia does the FB Disc FRC in the promotional video, it LOOKS like she's doing a tigerknee air FB Disc. However, the disc ends up hitting multiple times, so it must be the ground version! I think they gave longer recovery to FB Disc by changing its animation to look like EX Millia's tandem top(where she hops into the air a bit). It also explains why the move gets an FRC now.

Hope someone can clear this up!

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I've been kind of confused on the FB Disc changes, so I wonder if anyone has been able to find more information on it. When Millia does the FB Disc FRC in the promotional video, it LOOKS like she's doing a tigerknee air FB Disc. However, the disc ends up hitting multiple times, so it must be the ground version! I think they gave longer recovery to FB Disc by changing its animation to look like EX Millia's tandem top(where she hops into the air a bit). It also explains why the move gets an FRC now.

Hope someone can clear this up!

For a first time I was confused too.

It seems like it's ground version of her disc. There is no dust by jump, that all TK moves have. In video Millia does j.K after frc so it has a good mixup potential.

Edited by Horokei

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