[AC+R] News & Gameplay Discussion

[ZenTzen]

So, any news on a psn release

[doragonkoroshi]

...Yeah. Supposedly the 24th worldwide. We'll see.

[Circuitous]

Documents are up indicating they'll be available in English on the various networks, and Aksys confirmed that the worldwide release is in ASW's hands. I don't see them delaying it, really.

[M.Song]

just this whole worldwide release on the 24th and the fact that us psn always updates on tuesdays makes me wonder about the ps3's release date tho

[ElvenShadow]

Mike, I thought they were just loketesting certain locations (or did you say you were playing at akiba club sega? i heard you mention ogawa so i guess that means yeah), but I guess they just updated the game? I thought the website said game balance changes. Also, do you play on old(sd) and new(hd) monitors without noticing a difference, or does everyone pretty much try to play on sd cabs? I've noticed some videos with sidebars, but most of the ones uploaded seem to lack them, and i read some people early in the game's release complain on twitter about lag at certain arcade locations.

Well I played on Sunday and I started off at Shinjuku Sportsland cuz it is the closest arcade to the manga kissa I stayed at. They had 3 HD cabs running 1.01. Later, I decided to play at Club Sega Akihabara which has 5 HD cabs running 1.01. Either both of those arcades were "loketesting" or they just went ahead and released the new version (which I think was the case because it wasn't set up like a special event or anything, people were just playing as usual, and Sportsland was even running a BB tournament)

Some arcades have it on old cabinets (like Mikado) where as others have it on HD cabs. The side bars are only there on the HD cabs. To be honest, I think the game runs fine on the HD cabs and don't really find myself making any execution mistakes. If there is any lag, it is pretty minor (like a frame or less). I really don't think there is any need to worry.

[zeth07]

just this whole worldwide release on the 24th and the fact that us psn always updates on tuesdays makes me wonder about the ps3's release date tho

I don't know how the Japanese PSN works, but if it releases simultaneously "worldwide" on the 24th (lets say the 24th in Japan), wouldn't it in fact be Tuesday the 23rd in the US which would match up with PSN updating on Tuesdays in the US?

PSN usually updates in the afternoon/evening Eastern time, like around 6pm-7pm EST, which would make it 7am-8am JST on the 24th in Japan.

[ElvenShadow]

I think zeth might be right. In any case. If it actually does end up taking US PSN an extra week, you could always just buy the game from the Japanese PSN store...

[Destin]

With enough input lag anything becomes unreactable. Can you consistently block Millia's 6K on reaction? http://www.teyah.com/milliablocker.html

If not, this is an example of a move that would be unreactable if they slowed it to 23F, as it is currently 20F and AC+R will most likely be running at +3F delay on LCDs, as compared to AC.

Also, Kliff's 5D in AC+R is around 27 frames but I doubt anyone will be reacting to his raw dust because the cue to block high comes so late in the move (around frame 20) that there's no way to discern whether he's simply crouching for a moment or actually in his dust startup animation. From a gatling it's more obvious due to the long pause and your knowledge that he can't be in crouch stance, but done raw on oki, I don't see it happening.

This is true for twitch reaction times - like reacting to visually jarring flashes of light. This doesn't apply to fighting games. Choice reaction time, which is what does apply, relates to being able to identify subtle visual changes from a large variety of potential options and react accordingly, and typically range from 300-400 ms (18-24F) in humans.

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Mr. Elvenshadow, thanks for all your input and answers. Just have a couple quick ones regarding our favorite Tinman.

*Robo's self-destruct super explosion is supposed to be air unblockable. Have you seen, talked to anyone, or heard anything regarding this change?

*His Force Break is allegedly a lot faster, and he's supposed to be able to airdash straight out of it now. Again, any info on this would be welcomed as well.

If you want/have time, any general info you've gleaned over in Japan regarding Robo would be awesome! Thank you sir!

[TheRealBobMan]

I believe you can move much closer to the twitch reaction time by removing almost all stimulus as unimportant when looking for the overhead. It takes a lot of time to reach an almost subconscious state of looking for the overhead. I used to be able to block testaments 6P, which I believe was under the standard reaction, but could only do it when I was completely calm.

Testament's 6P is one that I have problems with because he crouches when he does it. It telegraphs early because of this, but it telegraphs like he's going to hit low. Until I spend the time to grind that into my mind, I'll always block it low on reaction instead of high, even if I was already blocking high. Same with most dusts.

But yeah, I agree with you on this 100%. The main problem is that you have to be expecting that particular thing to happen in order to react that fast, so while you can react to most overheads that are fast enough to be considered unblockable, you're hindering your ability to deal with other stuff. You get around this with basic tricks like the mantra "block low until they jump in", which is braindead easy and protects you against mids and lows while you watch for the overhead. There was a good article that I think was posted here on Dloop (or at least linked) about "focus bursts", or paying close attention at key moments, like when you know a mixup is coming, or when something is coming that you can beat on reaction. You can't focus like that all the time because of fatigue, and even if you could, you'd just be introducing lag into your brain for other tasks. Knowing when to predict a move so that you can watch for it saves a lot of that effort.

So if you know that out of ___ gatling chain, it's safe to block low and expect X move because no other overhead would come out for the next 2 normals of the string, you can do that. You just make yourself more vulnerable to tick-throws, or some other kind of mixup like a cross-up. But if you're getting that read that "he's going to do this for sure", you can maybe take that risk.

You're swapping one type of reaction for another. To use shooters as an example, if you know your team is behind you, your brain doesn't have to call memory to determine if the guy in front of you is wearing an allied uniform or enemy uniform, in order to determine if you have to shoot. It becomes "press button when you see movement" instead of "press button if you recognize an enemy".

However, don't forget that Teyah is talking about the difference the additional lag will have. It's like a move that telegraphs late - by the time we see the overhead start, we're 4 frames behind where the game is. So, the game has to run the move slower in order to compensate. We might react perfectly in time to what we see, but that's behind what the game's output is, so we'll get hit, and get pissed off because "I KNOW I BLOCKED THAT **** HIGH!".

[Destin]

Alot of stuff

Sounds like you should 1f jump more.

Did they take that out of the game btw? I hope so.

[reaVer]

Sounds like you should 1f jump more.

[Silmerion]

Don't get me wrong, 1f jumping can work and is a very good tool against ranged grapplers and can sometimes prevent a high low mixup, but it should be used as an option in your defensive mixup, not as a failsafe device.

I don't think he would disagree. At no point did he claim that 1f jumping is a get-out-of-jail-free card. :/

EDIT: Also what Circ said

[Circuitous]

Pretty sure he was bullshitting.

[ElvenShadow]

Sup Stormlocke. I honestly have only fought against Robo like once or twice. It was against Gaku. He beat me. I don't think I have really seen the self-destruct super yet. I think I did see airdash out of force break. Overall, Robo seems strong IMO. I don't think you will be dissapointed with him. Sorry that I can't give more info. I'll try to fight him more.

Also... Pretty sure 1 frame jump still is in the game. No reason to think they removed it.

[Teyah]

I believe you can move much closer to the twitch reaction time by removing almost all stimulus as unimportant when looking for the overhead. It takes a lot of time to reach an almost subconscious state of looking for the overhead. I used to be able to block testaments 6P, which I believe was under the standard reaction, but could only do it when I was completely calm.

You definitely can move closer to twitch reaction time, but in doing so you're also increasing your chances of reacting to the wrong or fake cues - basically, you're using educated guesses. But for Testament's 6P, that move is 17F which is borderline blockable on reaction (by people with very fast reflexes only) so it's not that out of the question. Other fast overheads, like Eddie 6K (18F), are telegraphed early and can also be blocked on reaction on a consistent basis by some people.

However, don't forget that Teyah is talking about the difference the additional lag will have. It's like a move that telegraphs late - by the time we see the overhead start, we're 4 frames behind where the game is. So, the game has to run the move slower in order to compensate. We might react perfectly in time to what we see, but that's behind what the game's output is, so we'll get hit, and get pissed off because "I KNOW I BLOCKED THAT **** HIGH!".

There is a point I'd like to bring up about the additional lag / startup of overheads that was added in, though. The extra startup of moves has been spread fairly evenly from what I can tell - for example, with May's 5D, there's a frame or two added during the initial spin and then another frame or two added right before the actual hit. This means that on top of the added 3-ish frame startup, it also telegraphs even earlier now, which makes it easier to block than if no extra lag/startup had been added. The way to avoid this would be if Arcsys added all of the startup right at the end of the move, but this would animate pretty awkwardly. So instead we get easier/earlier cues on top of extra startup, which might just end up making these overheads too easy to block.

Also, that was a great write-up you did on reaction time. Major props to you, sir.

[Henaki]

this thread summons old men

[Phrekwenci]

this thread summons old men

HERE I AM, AND I'M FABULOUS!

[Destin]

Also... Pretty sure 1 frame jump still is in the game. No reason to think they removed it.

Eh, seems like an unintentional mechanic, and it defeats an already low vulnerability window on jumping out with an optimal defense once you get airborne. Seems like the game would be better without it.

[WolfCrimson]

What's a 1 frame jump? Is it like a 1 frame link?

[Adelheid]

What's a 1 frame jump? Is it like a 1 frame link?

1 frame jump is cancelling jump startup to air FD. 7~P+K, or whatever. It's an escape tool.

[TheRealBobMan]

Thanks Teyah!

Adelheid, that corpsecrank.jpg made me realize how biased I am against people that say silly things. After reading just one of his posts, I started reading spelling errors in his later posts that weren't actually there.

[M.Song]

Eh, seems like an unintentional mechanic, and it defeats an already low vulnerability window on jumping out with an optimal defense once you get airborne. Seems like the game would be better without it.

i would think it'd be intentional since the effect looks so different from regular jumping

[Scottie Yosh]

Is there a list or ranking of character weights somewhere? Sorry if this seems lazy or obvious(or in the wrong place) ^^

[Rasec]

There is no dust cloud when you perform a 1 frame jump, I have to agree that it's probably intentional.