[AC+R] News & Gameplay Discussion

[Jais]

Robo tk.DP

Baiken tk.yozonson(sp)

Most fuzzy guards ( e.g. Bridget Ascending j.k , Millia FB disc with haircar frc j.k etc. )

[Digital Watches]

I love how most of these theory-fighter solutions rely both on people being extremely inexperienced and them assuming you're extremely inexperienced.

I have never seen a good player who will reliably "lose concentration" just because they're in a combo, especially a Guilty Gear player. If all that you're saying is that you should be thinking about mixing up your opponent during a combo, I agree and we can leave it at that. However, it sounds like you honestly think that getting combo'd puts anyone worth their salt in some kind of micro-coma that makes them incapable of concentrating for the full continuous 2 minutes or so required to play any match in a fighting game.

In case you're unfamiliar with the metagame most people are playing in almost every fighting game ever, Oki is a real thing, and knocking the opponent down has certain advantages. Most of the time, you have a limited set of options from grounded, these being pretty much "invincible or instant things you can do in one move with no control over the positioning". Sure, you can guess right and win against something risky they tried, but they have a good 40 or so frames to set up something that's safe, ambiguous, or just straight up goes through any options you might be trying. By doing anything but blocking it, you are betting that, despite having pretty much every possible option their character can use versus your five or so reversal options (That's about right for most characters that have more viable reversals than average. Backdash, throw, DP, Burst, super.), and absolute control over the spacing and timing of their setup, compared to your zero control whatsoever (If you DP late, you got meatied and your DP didn't come out, try again next time), they didn't account for whatever option you chose, that they know you have beforehand. Now, of course this does happen plenty, and there are characters that just can't cover all those options in a given matchup at once, yada yada. I'm not saying getting knocked down should lose you the game or that you should never try to reversal out or anything like that.

I'll also say that tech traps are great, resets are useful, everyone should learn them, I use them all the time, etc., but the fact that you have a dragon punch doesn't put you at an advantage when you've just been put in guaranteed knockdown, and it certainly doesn't mean that you should make a blanket statement like "they are much more vulnerable while in pressure/combo than they are in knockdown." That's complete bullshit and you know it. Guilty Gear in particular has a ton of reasons that make that untrue, one of which you mention yourself: Damage Scaling. If you're trying to set up a tech trap, or a burst bait, or something like that, the worst they will ever have to do is take your original combo, which you won't even get if you're dropping it to try a reset. I can't tell you how many clever plans just flat out don't work if I sit there and don't tech out. By pressing zero buttons, I force you to finish the low-damage combo you were originally doing, and you don't get your reset. Plus, I still have the option to tech at any time I'm not in stun, and burst at literally any time, meaning that your reset attempt has to not only come from the limited option pool of stuff that works from the combo you were doing, but has to account for a pretty wide variance in possible timings, unless you're assuming you're playing against someone who's just going to mash it out regardless. So worst case for me, I eat your combo that I was assuming was guaranteed in the first place, by doing nothing.

But let's talk about a situation where I actually have to think to get out of your reset. If you're comboing someone on the ground, and you create a false gap, then yeah, you can get a reset if they're not looking for mixup (Hint: Good players are, period). If they do nothing, you get your free impossible dust combo reset, and they take a bajillion more damage than they would have off your 2P setup. But when you make that gap, assuming you're playing against a person who has an attention span at all, they have all of the options they would have in a reversal window (that's if your gap is only a single frame), and you have fewer options than you'd have on okizeme, because they're stunned for much shorter than they'd be knocked down, they can move as soon as they're out of stun, and you're limited to the timing, spacing, and cancel options you had from the combo or blockstring you were already doing. So here you are with your cool mid-combo mixup, and they have to deal with maybe 3 or 4 possible options from this string, and they have more options than they'd normally have in a reversal situation.

But yeah, much more vulnerable position than hard knockdown. We'll go with that.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Digital Watches

[mynus]

Godlike Shit

That..was awesome guy lol. This man wins the thread.

[Star-Demon]

I think you should never get hit because getting hit is bad, and if you get hit by things, you just failed to be good. The more you get hit the worse you are.

SRS - This is all good shit but I don't know who's right or how to change my game game-wise.

I don't really have the mindset yet to play better matches, and without experience with matchups I literally don't know everything each character is capable of doing, and that's quite a lot when so many things rest on knowing the thing about their character combined with the thing with yours that makes you win every second. You have to win every second. Maybe that's just me.

I just want knockdown as often as possible. I'm not skilled enough and fast enough right now to really be aggressive and steamroll people like you're actually supposed to in these games, so knockdown gives me time to think about performing a 50/50 or trying to manage space or manage the other guy. If I get combos - great, if I knock you down in corner I'm really happy, because between Baiken's current tools and Litchi's, I feel more comfortable attacking in corner situations, the worst thing that could happen is getting back thrown or reversing positions or running out of gas on your attack. (I really hate the last but I haven't figured out how this is avoided correctly)

For me - at least right now, with what I got, I'll take damage when I can damage - but my number one priority is to outthink you so you get hit and then you lose. (and thus be worse than me!)

Go to KD, make them guess wrong lots. Make them give me their resources so they don't have them later. Hell - Make them think they can not respect me until they suddenly lose. I am not right about it, but with the very few skills I have, it's all I think I can do until I master every skill the game requires, because that's what it takes to win in RL, IMO.

Going to reset - I'm just not there yet. I can let dropped combos and bad spacing on confirms do that for me if they do something wrong. If I'm going to be bad at this game and even hit the wall talent-wise, convert any weaknesses into something useful if I can. It probably will not hold any water but at least it's better than just hitting the wall and just moving on elsewhere. Just go for it, try to seal up the cracks or quit.

Anyways - I think - amidst all this discussion, at some point a player has to ask themselves what their individual strengths are and what they will do better with given a situation. Unless we are going to say stuff like "You just have to be good" and "If you haven't mastered everything you just don't have a real game to be playing."

BTW I Accidentally sparked a lot of substance into the thread out of nowhere!

Edited October 23, 2012 by Star-Demon

[Tsak]

I think resets can be very useful, even if the opponent doesn't go for the reset you can usually pick the combo back up for a kd if they're playing possum with their tech. (depending on the character of course) the more you can incorporate resets into your normal mixup the further the game goes into your favor. If the opponent is conditioned correctly you can pull some awesome stuff. But then again the better the opponent the harder it is to condition them. Because they've either seen it before or just don't give you enough chances to condition them in a 2 out of 3

[BioLogIn]

Somebody to stop this nonsense, please?

[Circuitous]

Digital Watches said everything that needs to be said, guys. You can stop.

[Senkei]

I have no idea If games will be played this week M Song. I would like that to happen though... On to the FL thread to discuss more!

[Vulcan422]

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/GGXXACP/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802584111dd

Are you ready? It's cool! Let's enjoy a great showtime!

[NeoStrayCat]

Let's Rock! Seems you can buy it from the EU Marketplace no problem...Just tested, until other regions are available to purchase (no demo option yet). Also, the storage needed for this is almost a gig (949MB)

Update: US Marketplace now updated with Trial and Full game option. (Depending on marketplace hiccups...)

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-gb/Product/GGXXACP/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d802584111dd

Edited October 24, 2012 by NeoStrayCat

[Daedron]

Why does it say it's not available in my region yet, I live in the EU ;/

[Vulcan422]

Online appears to be quite smooth. Input delay isn't as dumb as the crappy OG Xbox #R netcode. Network menu looks like ass, and it only lets you do 1v1. The good news is it plays a random song while you search.

[Kanashimi]

Why does it say it's not available in my region yet, I live in the EU ;/

If your on XBL try waiting until 12 and see if the store has updated, however we could get screwed just like we did with P4U....

[NeoStrayCat]

Well, from my point of view, the US, EU, and JP marketplaces have already updated the listing for the game on their respective marketplaces...(With both Trial/Full game options)

Well, already tried it out, somehow, it doesn't feel like playing it from #Reload to this Version, maybe its just me, but it looks to be good nonetheless...At least I also scored my 1st online win too, lol. And yes, random track online like Vanilla/Super 4, just noticed that.

[Daedron]

I just got on my UK account instead of my normal one and downloaded it using the UK one, screw waiting ;p

[Grendy]

it's 6:30 and i cant seem to find it on the marketplace, guess I'll take a nap and hope its there when i wake up.

[NeoStrayCat]

Well, not everyone will get it right away, but at least there's the matter of waiting it out and showing up in the marketplace...Still looks good though.

[Kanashimi]

Well, not everyone will get it right away, but at least there's the matter of waiting it out and showing up in the marketplace...Still looks good though.

Thing is though pretty much everyone on this site is hype to play Guilty Gear so I guess we are all impatient :D.

[NeoStrayCat]

Thing is though pretty much everyone on this site is hype to play Guilty Gear so I guess we are all impatient :D.

Exactly, but for me, I need to snooze badly, lol. Waiting out for games such as this released real late tends to put me out most of the time, so yeah, lol. :3

[Kanashimi]

Exactly, but for me, I need to snooze badly, lol. Waiting out for games such as this released real late tends to put me out most of the time, so yeah, lol. :3

Lol what time is it where you are? And it's cool I'm just sat at in school in free so yeah..... How's net code looking?

[NeoStrayCat]

PST Time Zone, as of post, 4 AM, lol. :3

Netcode looking good, my 1st online match was alright though, of course I know I might have to refer certain posts to certain threads and not go off-topic.

Edited October 24, 2012 by NeoStrayCat

[Kanashimi]

PST Time Zone, as of post, 4 AM, lol. :3

Netcode looking good, my 1st online match was alright though, of course I know I might have to refer certain posts to certain threads and not go off-topic.

Ahh well I should downloading it a two time and the rest of the day should be pracetise with Dizzy all day long.

[NeoStrayCat]

Ahh, well I should downloading it a two time and the rest of the day should be practice with Dizzy all day long.

Good luck, lol, then there's that 10 hour practice achievement..., eh, wouldn't worry about that anyways right now.

[Star-Demon]

I could not bother going to school, but I am PS3, so maybe someone will bring theirs. FFF I have stuff to do!!!!

Too bad I want to leave early to catch bus...for what?

GG streammonstering. It's TIME.

[Kanashimi]

Good luck, lol, then there's that 10 hour practice achievement..., eh, wouldn't worry about that anyways right now.

..... Who has that much time on thier hands.....