[AC+R] News & Gameplay Discussion

[reaVer]

They have made good (maybe the best) fighting game netcode with BB and P4A. I think the problem with GG is the fact that the game itself is much faster and time sensitive so that the latency is more exposed. BB was made with netplay in mind from the ground up.

No, this is in fact the same netcode. The difference is that both BB and P4A are DESIGNED FOR NETWORK, GG is NOT. GG is far more demanding as networking is considered and they simply fell short.

1. This game is not BlazBlue.

I don't think I mentioned BB anywhere except for this post when it came to complaining about the netcode. The netcode is simply substandard to my own.

2. Japan is not America.

What does that have to do with anything? Besides, it's a well known fact I live in Europe.

3. You weren't the one that had other things to do.

Nononono, this is just... NO. Lets make this perfectly clear:

1. I(ME, and maybe a bunch of others) pay money.

2. I expect a game that is working properly.

3. They(Arcsys) developed this game and take (most of) that money.

4. They failed to deliver.

How the fuck they arrange their resources to get this game out is of NO concern to me. I want GGXXAC+R with WORKING netplay or my trust as a consumer in them will be considered damaged and I will remember this occurrence when considering buying future games. There is no "They had better things to do", they are responsible to make true on their end of the bargain.

Go ahead and email them some of your fantastic code, then. Unless you re asking for a job?

Yes, after nummerous of times of explaining them what they should do and how they should do it, I should just insult their intelligence even further and do it for them! That will stick well with them!

[Star-Demon]

Hmmm.

Sounds pretty selfish and inconsiderate, if you ask me.

EDIT: I actually said a lot in my short points. If you don't want to think about it, it only shows you don't care to think. As a programmer you should have a little more appreciation for how games are made and how software get developed.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Star-Demon

[Star-Demon]

Here's my take on the situation:

If I were to port a game to netplay venues I would port the game I started with using what I had on hand and then patch it.

Thankfully, I like my product and community, so I'm issuing a content patch including new art resources, balance changes, features, etc. The time invested in the project goes here after my other projects start winding down.

But I would port the game I started with first. It's the easiest, cheapest, most sensible way for my company to do this.

[reaVer]

Yes, especially during the weekends, where I don't have customers nagging to me about bugs in software that I'm developing for them... for which they PAID... I don't care to think. And yeah, it can sound selfish, but if you paid for a full candy bar, would you accept only half or 80%?

Especially with distributers hunting down their own customers because allegedly they didn't pay to play the game, it is very important to send a message back where we can. We cannot allow a developer deliver short on one of the game's flagship features and since arcsys seems to be interested in listening to us, we explain them what we think is wrong. If they weren't interested, we wouldn't have bothered and most of the people he would've stopped buying their products, simple as that. Yes it is selfish, but for me it's MY money, I WORKED for that money and I decide how I spend that money; and if they want (some of) my money they better deliver proper. And to reflect, the PC AAA market has failed to deliver for over 12 years, so noone here is really worried.

[reaVer]

Here's my take on the situation:

If I were to port a game to netplay venues I would port the game I started with using what I had on hand and then patch it.

Thankfully, I like my product and community, so I'm issuing a content patch including new art resources, balance changes, features, etc. The time invested in the project goes here after my other projects start winding down.

But I would port the game I started with first. It's the easiest, cheapest, most sensible way for my company to do this.

This is business logic, this might be their side of the story, but the problem right now is that in between those steps, they made a mistake. We as the community, point that out to them because as mentioned before, they appear to be listening. How they achieve what they need to achieve is not my problem nor is it something I care about. Of course I'm always up for learning new things and hearing how things are going internally, but that won't change in what manner that hammer of judgement swings down on their end product. As a community we simply cannot afford to slack off on these kind of things, because if you give them leeway, you give them the possibility of ruining what potentially could be good games; which then in turn would mean that people that would've bought the game won't buy the game which means they decide to switch platforms or they hit chapter 11 as it is. We are gamers, we want to be entertained, we never settle for less.

[Kyosuke Kagami]

I have a theory:

Maybe Arcsystem works is busy doing other shit, and... well, the GGAC port wasn't that much of a priority for now.

See Arcana Heart 3. Game has a faster pace than Brahzbloo and it uses the same netcode, but so far it's the game with the best performance of them all (above Extend and P4A). Maybe they did focus a lot more, since AH3 was originally intended to become a retail title.

Since GGAC was planned as a digital game, maybe they didn't test or adjust the netcode enough coz they are busy with Chrono Phantasma and other stuff.

But well, at least it seems like they will fix this netcode... in a future, according to some things I read here.

[Silmerion]

I dunno if this question will get me punched in the face or not, but....

Has there been any credible discussion of tiers for AC+R yet? I mean like something that Arcadia put out, or at the very least a popular list on some Japanese BBS.

[Sophisticat]

^ I think there's been a couple lists put out by JP players.

------

Also, Reaver is correct. The onus is on Arc to make a product people will buy. I don't think bad netcode is enough to put off GG enthusiasts, but I'm sure it might have cost them a couple sales.

[kazukifafner]

My guess is that they'll update the netcode once the R+ update is good to go.

They probably didn't feel like spending a lot of time on the netcode of a port that's not even the most recent version.

[NecrosAnger]

Someone help me unterstand this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szKePHD8CN4

I dont see a difference between PS2 and PS3, 360 HDMI

So PS3/360 version = Arcade is wrong?

[Skeletal Minion]

^Interesting

Can someone link to the testing proving the arcade version is slower than the PS2 version? Just to be sure that claim isn't some overblown superstition.

I wouldn't doubt it's true, but someone claiming the PS2 version is faster back in the day without improper/no testing until it snowballed into everyone assuming it's true seems like a completely possible scenario to me. Kinda like what happened with these unfounded rumors:

- Unplugging your mic reduces lag

- Response time being related to HDTV lag

- Wireless controllers being inherently laggier than wired (this is possible, but only with poor 3rd party wireless controllers)

It would be nice to have reconfirmation or possibly for someone who has a GGXXAC cabinet to test (a real one, as emulators can produce inaccurate results).

[M.Song]

I dunno if this question will get me punched in the face or not, but....

Has there been any credible discussion of tiers for AC+R yet? I mean like something that Arcadia put out, or at the very least a popular list on some Japanese BBS.

this was posted on norematch recently:

http://www.norematch.com/2012/12/07/arcsys-25th-anniversary-and-arcadia-info/

[Silmerion]

this was posted on norematch recently:

http://www.norematch.com/2012/12/07/arcsys-25th-anniversary-and-arcadia-info/

Looks like they agree on:

S: Faust, Zappa

A: Millia, Jam

B: Eddie, Potemkin, Johnny, Order-Sol

C: Ky, Venom, Testament

D: Justice

And they disagree strongly (difference of more than one tier) on Kliff and Anji.

Cool! Looks like there's still a lot of room for the game to evolve. Exactly what I'd like to see after two months.

Bridget's down in the dregs again ;_;

Edited December 8, 2012 by Silmerion

[burningvigor]

owells as if that tier list even matters to most of us.

I use buri I beat testaments eddie no problem. That's because I and most players here are mediocre haha.

I wish this game was more popular in the states......

[Most Unknown]

Really Guilty Gear is meant to be played off line really IMO. I just like that fact that I don't have to lug around a PS2 and Arcade Pro 2 now because of they put it in da 3. BB, Persona and AH3 are fine games played online...leave Guilty offline...Hell, most people that play the 3 games I mentioned said Guilty Gear is hard to play anyway...so why bother with noobs and online scrubs...How much is that gonna make the scene or your local scene grow...not much

[Silmerion]

I mean, I agree with you that GG is categorically better offline, but good online play can only increase its popularity, and increased popularity can only benefit everyone. Of course local scenes are important and you should work to maintain them, but good online can only benefit us.

[kazukifafner]

Well, to be fair, every fighting game in existence is categorically better offline than online. And it will continue to be that way until internet technology advances enough.

That being said, I'm very glad they decided to include online in this release. You can always play offline if you want to; but for people like me, who don't have that option, netplay is more than welcome.

[its iaijutsu]

I've played a few games online and I've had one lag experience. It was pretty much unplayable. All my other games have been awesome tho. Win or lose, comp has been very respectful and fairly good as well. Mind you, I'm coming from MvC2 where cable scrubs and ragequitters run rampant. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with that anymore and I'd gladly take a couple of laggy games out of 20 then go back to playing mahvel

[Skeletal Minion]

Netplay is a requirement these days to make a successful FG with a new IP or brand that new gen FG players aren't familiar with. Bad netcode = less sales from casual players = less casuals to level up into hardcore players = smaller tourney turnouts = #deadgame.

ArcSys really fucked up by half assing the netcode. It reflects poorly on their reputation, it nets them lower sales, it hurts the GG brand, and it hurts local scenes since smaller ones need all the players they can get.

With online play being a first step into the FGC for many players, ArcSys not only shot themselves in the foot, they shot the entire GG fanbase in the foot. This was a chance to capitalize on the newer players who have heard of how legendarily awesome GG is, yet never had a chance to play it. Now many of them are shrugging while saying, "Meh, why bother."

[Most Unknown]

I like SM's post right there...I was really excited for AC to be online...but now I really don't bother with the online to much. I'll give it a second shot but its really difficult when you can't do basic combo's with someone like Sol and lose to someone who runs up throwing out jab and you can't get a VV out to punish them...smh. Major improvements if you want the legacy to live on when AC R drops...

[Jakestation]

About the tierlist, Koichis list is way better, Dogura gets to play only vs few characters and acho sucks hard atm if you compare it to the level of Mikado where Koichi plays.

So just ingore doguras list at this point.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Netplay is a requirement these days to make a successful FG with a new IP or brand that new gen FG players aren't familiar with. Bad netcode = less sales from casual players = less casuals to level up into hardcore players = smaller tourney turnouts = #deadgame.

ArcSys really fucked up by half assing the netcode. It reflects poorly on their reputation, it nets them lower sales, it hurts the GG brand, and it hurts local scenes since smaller ones need all the players they can get.

With online play being a first step into the FGC for many players, ArcSys not only shot themselves in the foot, they shot the entire GG fanbase in the foot. This was a chance to capitalize on the newer players who have heard of how legendarily awesome GG is, yet never had a chance to play it. Now many of them are shrugging while saying, "Meh, why bother."

You my friend, just about summed up the entirety of my feelings about GG, as a newcomer to GG after BB.

[Electric Red]

I have the JP(PSN) version and I haven't been able to find a game yet on net play. Are the 2 versions incompatible or something?

Edited December 10, 2012 by Electric Red

[ElvenShadow]

no, just bad timing most likely. try again

[Circuitous]

The netcode is bad.

ASW might be working on it.

Whether they are or not, arguing why you think it's bad solves nothing.

Oh and something about execution, too.