[AC+R] News & Gameplay Discussion

[Digital Watches]

Alright, so what do we know about actual matchups in this game? Is there a recent chart we can start with?

[Teyah]

Hm... the red matchups on that spreadsheet appear to be correct.

[KageVincent]

Is +R on psn yet?

[Digital Watches]

I've changed them to grey so we can use red to denote bad matchups and green to denote good ones. I'm also just like, filling in matchups I think I know, so if anyone has better information, feel free to change stuff. I made edits public for now.

[RebelzPlague]

SS: Zappa

S: Faust Millia Chipp Dizzy

A: Testament Baiken Slayer Axl Jam

A-: May Order-Sol

B: Potemkin Johnny Ky Anji I-No

C: Sol Eddie ABA

C-: Robo-Ky Justice

D: Kliff Bridget Venom

Awww Man

[Klaige]

Awww Man

Don't worry about it. Seriously I can't stress how much this list is not that important or locked in. From my experience so far Anji feels in every single matchup, he's not going to dominate anyone but his worst matchups are going to be in the 5.5/4.5 range. That's just one example. Worry more about your matchups and not the arbitrary list.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Or we could help out Watches and make our own!

Who's "we"?

[Mumm-Ra]

Dl people?

[Dreiko]

...someone draw that...NOW

I can see Slayer's gun shooting Pilebunkers.

[ElvenShadow]

The drill isn't actually safe on block. Though it is difficult to punish, it's not impossible. If he does it close to you, it shouldn't be too hard to get a jab (or something else fast). Pot can 5K, but it's tight. Also instant blocking helps, as always.

I've heard that there's some kind of flag on drill that sets the hitstop to be different from normal (less than usual), which could contribute to it seeming difficult to punish, but I can't confirm that.

The drill is safe if distanced properly. No good Kliff is gonna use it often right up in the opponent's face.

[RebelzPlague]

Don't worry about it. Seriously I can't stress how much this list is not that important or locked in. From my experience so far Anji feels in every single matchup, he's not going to dominate anyone but his worst matchups are going to be in the 5.5/4.5 range. That's just one example. Worry more about your matchups and not the arbitrary list.

I just hope that the tiers don't discourage anyone from picking them up come +R. Having more people play helps get things discovered and also leads to more match footage and such. More so worried as it goes down the list. I refuse to believe that Venom is among the worst.

[White Man]

I just hope that the tiers don't discourage anyone from picking them up come +R. Having more people play helps get things discovered and also leads to more match footage and such. More so worried as it goes down the list. I refuse to believe that Venom is among the worst.

I saw enough Johnny and Bridget players in AC that I'm not too worried about the tiers affecting character selection in any significant way. As long as everybody is considered realistically viable in the competitive scene (which it sounds like the general consensus is that they are...?) I imagine only the most fickle players will drop their characters because of tier ranking. Hell, I saw a TON of Justice players in match footage shortly after +R hit and she was universally considered the worst character in the game before the patch.

Edited September 1, 2013 by White Man

[BladeOfJustice7]

Dl people?

I rather not have random DL members contribute towards the matchup chart that's why. There should be a defined "we", but it shouldn't be exclusive to Mods either.

[Roldy]

I rather not have random DL members contribute towards the matchup chart that's why. There should be a defined "we", but it shouldn't be exclusive to Mods either.

It depends what you mean by "contribute". I wouldn't mind a random member discussing a matchup as long as their argument is well thought-out

If you meant that the matchup chart is public and can be edited by anyone, then yeah I would say there should be a defined group (or maybe just Watches) that can access the chart.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Roldy

[BladeOfJustice7]

Does Eddie suck in ACR? Why doesn't anyone play him and what exactly changed (and nerfed) about him, since he looks the same in my eyes except with toned down damage.

[qwerty]

Eddie is much more tame than he was in AC. He doesn't hit as hard in general, and he doesn't get as much of an advantage from a knockdown anymore.

In AC, every time Eddie scored a knockdown he could set up a 50-50, which led into another 50-50. In +R, Eddie has to work a lot harder to knock you down, and once he does, he's usually going to have to have you block a bit (giving you a chance to escape) before you have to start guessing.

He might look pretty similar to the untrained eye, but that's just because he still has strong pressure. The difference is that now you aren't liable to lose the match as soon as he hits you, nor are you forced to guess nonstop like in AC.

I wouldn't say nobody plays him anymore, but there's definitely fewer Eddie players now. That just comes with the territory when a new game comes out.

[Chrome Homura]

Does Eddie suck in ACR? Why doesn't anyone play him and what exactly changed (and nerfed) about him, since he looks the same in my eyes except with toned down damage.

Well, Qwerty more or less covered the concepts, but the technical details (I.E "exact changes" as you point out) are as follows:

His "pool" summon (which generated the easiest of his unblockable setups) now hits opponents who are OTG, thus making it impossible for ED to set up unblockables with it. Now, this summon can only be practically used as a combo extender (not that it generates any significant damage) the optimal followup now being Drunkard ShadexN to build meter + drill KD to finish. This can still lead to a Drill FRC IAD unblockable, but it's harder to execute and a tad more risky depending on the opponent's reversal options. Also notable is that this unblockable does decent damage, but ends in a reset.

Also, his Summon moves cost just a bit more gauge to use (thus shortening his pressure/combo strings) and in addition the gauge itself takes longer to recharge. In AC if you unsummoned before the gauge ran out it refilled instantly. Now if you unsummon before the gauge runs out, it refills at the rate it did when you used it up entirely in AC, and should you exhaust it (or lil-eddie is hit) in +R it refills even slower. Paying attention to the gauge itself is now paramount, as the margin for error is much smaller. In AC if Eddie ran out of gauge that was your chance to get in, as he could very easily regain his momentum just as soon as it refilled. In +R an Eddie with a full gauge is less fearsome to begin with, and when lil-eddie goes away you have more time than before to pressure him before he can summon again.

The reason you don't see as many ED players now is likely because he now represents a more significant investment: the players who used to tier-whore him have all jumped ship in favor of some easier character, and Ogawa is off god-knows-where...

[Lynxfort]

Then again, while the game has been out a year over there, it's still somewhat early. Stuff is still developing and being discovered. We don't even have the game yet (err, not the US SKU anyway). No need to really care about what the list says. This is GG.

.

1 year you meant the first ver or 1.01 ??

[Ash of Arcadia]

Something has got to be wrong with that list. ABA, Venom, Kliff and Bridget seem way too damn low. Kliff, by virtue of his character design, should never be that low.

[9TNine]

Something has got to be wrong with that list. ABA, Venom, Kliff and Bridget seem way too damn low. Kliff, by virtue of his character design, should never be that low.

It's too spread out, IMO. I don't think this game really has that many tiers, but that list makes it look like those characters at the bottom are bad, which isn't true.

-9

[Ash of Arcadia]

It's too spread out, IMO. I don't think this game really has that many tiers, but that list makes it look like those characters at the bottom are bad, which isn't true.

-9

So true. The lowest tier in GG should always be B-. It discourages newer players when they see that their characters are viewed as "not very good" rather than "It takes some work to be good with them".

[Errol]

screw that. if a character is not very good, then people should know that. I was actually surprised to see 7:3s in the GG list because the BB community has for some time decided that no match is worse than 6:4 and that's only the very worst matchups in the game.

[Ash of Arcadia]

screw that. if a character is not very good, then people should know that. I was actually surprised to see 7:3s in the GG list because the BB community has for some time decided that no match is worse than 6:4 and that's only the very worst matchups in the game.

So I'm to tell someone that Venom isn't good? Who would believe me anyway?

Guilty Gear's matchup-makeup is exactly why I proposed that B- be the last tier. Nobody is helpless in this game in ANY matchup. The mechanics of the game itself can greatly help out any lower character in any situation. The slashback feature being as good as it is now is just one example.

[Errol]

whatever it is, it should be based in reality. Don't tweak things because having a C tier or having a 3.0 matchup looks bad to new people playing the game. If that's what it is, that's what it is.

[Solless]

When is the AC+R patch supposed to be out in 'Merica?