[AC+R] News & Gameplay Discussion

[destruction_adv]

add the slow walk speed and the slow back dash

i certainly dont likke this changes on justice mobility :/

i hope that for the next local test they give justice more mobility options

I agree, right now the changes seem like overkill. At least let her ground dash and give her one airdash (no ground dash + an air dash would be okay too, and pretty unique.)

[Hecatom]

tbh, i wouldnt mind if they give to him/her all the mobility options and instead give him/hear a health modifier like chipp

[Adelheid]

They did give her a lot of new moves and options though. I think it's interesting. They probably thought that including her as is would just have been too much, since... She's really strong in AC+.

[Blade]

tbh, i wouldnt mind if they give to him/her all the mobility options and instead give him/hear a health modifier like chipp

Justice is a girl, dammit. But yeah, HP mod wouldn't be so bad...or they could y'know...increase recovery frames for her moves...maybe get rid of FRCs for her...make her commit to more moves, that sorta thing.

[excelence]

Isn't Justice already has Chip health mod and gigantic hit box to combos on normal AC?

[Circuitous]

I agree, right now the changes seem like overkill

Welcome to a first loketest. This is how it works.

Justice players gotta calm down. She may end up low tier but at least she'll be playable, right? Give it time.

[M.Song]

Welcome to a first loketest. This is how it works.

Justice players gotta calm down. She may end up low tier but at least she'll be playable, right? Give it time.

think of it as a challenge.... can justice get nerfed harder than #R roboky?

[Henaki]

To me it seems like the intent of updated justice is to make the anti-Potemkin. This huge, slow, awkward zoning character with incredible tools. Potemkin is to rushdown as Justice is to zoning. Slow in exchange for power. It's a variation of an archtype that doesn't exist in GGAC so I think it might be a good direction to take her in.

IDK what the fuck Kliff is though. I guess his gameplay is supposed to be "old man".

[9TNine]

To me it seems like the intent of updated justice is to make the anti-Potemkin. This huge, slow, awkward zoning character with incredible tools. Potemkin is to rushdown as Justice is to zoning. Slow in exchange for power. It's a variation of an archtype that doesn't exist in GGAC so I think it might be a good direction to take her in.

IDK what the fuck Kliff is though. I guess his gameplay is supposed to be "old man".

That actually sounds like a good idea, especially since her FB would allow for that quick mobility of getting across the screen, but at a cost.

-9

[Hecatom]

To me it seems like the intent of updated justice is to make the anti-Potemkin. This huge, slow, awkward zoning character with incredible tools. Potemkin is to rushdown as Justice is to zoning. Slow in exchange for power. It's a variation of an archtype that doesn't exist in GGAC so I think it might be a good direction to take her in.

IDK what the fuck Kliff is though. I guess his gameplay is supposed to be "old man".

well at least they should give the old imperial ray back or at least like a fb , or at least the original sj arc that had on GG

plus is not like potemkin is unable to move fast across the screen

[Digital Watches]

Finally: A real zoning-centric character in GG.

[Hecatom]

Finally: A real zoning-centric character in GG.

you made it sound like if there werent zoning-centric characters on the game

dunno why have the impression that zoning = passive game

[Digital Watches]

TL;DR Sarcasm on the internet.

[Blade]

Honestly I can't picture a zoning character designed to be slow...or durable for that matter.

Most existing zoners don't have many close-range tools to begin with, as compensation for their range...not to mention the premise is intended to be "partially rewarding" to get close to a zoner (taking risks, trying to get inside), not punishing.

In Justice' case, I don't see her as a Weak Close Range fighter, much less a strong zoner.

[Silmerion]

Most existing zoners don't have many close-range tools to begin with, as compensation for their range...not to mention the premise is intended to be "partially rewarding" to get close to a zoner (taking risks, trying to get inside), not punishing.

In Justice' case, I don't see her as a Weak Close Range fighter, much less a strong zoner.

Game designers will often give characters asymmetric power across spacings, but not always. I think the "Walking Tank" archetype that a slow Justice would represent (strong damage and options from multiple ranges, but slow and relatively light on defense) is a cool character type that Guilty Gear doesn't really have yet.

[phantomBlade]

There is no reason to be dissapointed in Justice not being able to regular dash at all.

Justice has a crazy special attack where he DASHES to other side of the screen to hit the opponent, leading to crazy combo. He can dash half screen. Input look to be an uppercut. Justice looks so awesome.

[destruction_adv]

There is no reason to be dissapointed in Justice not being able to regular dash at all.

Justice has a crazy special attack where he DASHES to other side of the screen to hit the opponent, leading to crazy combo. He can dash half screen. Input look to be an uppercut. Justice looks so awesome.

It's not a special though, it's a force break.

[9TNine]

It's not a special though, it's a force break.

But when your character's no longer meant to move quickly, that's fair.

-9

[phantomBlade]

Oh it's a force break. Dammit. oh well.

[destruction_adv]

Oh it's a force break. Dammit. oh well.

Well, my above post was mostly meant to be taken as a joke...but I don't see it being used to help close the distance like Hammerfall, I know i remberer reading that some characters can crouch under it, but it now wallbounces so it's better midscreen than it used to be. I do think taking all her mobility was a little overboard, but even with that I can't see Justice as being low teir. She never seemed weak up close, and her zoning game looks strong too. It kinda makes me think of Parasoul in SG (lacks mobility, but is pretty good at any range). Then again, I might be wrong entirely, I don't pay much attention to Justice.

[Blade]

Game designers will often give characters asymmetric power across spacings, but not always. I think the "Walking Tank" archetype that a slow Justice would represent (strong damage and options from multiple ranges, but slow and relatively light on defense) is a cool character type that Guilty Gear doesn't really have yet.

The closest thing I can think of to your description is GG2 Overture's "Robo-Valentine" (Valentine's Gear Boss Mode that looks like Justice)...she was meant to be semi-mobile, but she was a heavy tank that could absorb combos like they were nothing, yet fire a full salvo of ranged fast projectiles from the ground or air...but she had much higher defense compared to Justice in concept, something like super-armor at least. Her melee strikes (elbow chainsaws) were slow but powerful too. The only thing she lacked was the ability to deal with fast opponents without hoping the stuff she threw out hit.

Most of Justice' ranged attacks are slow at best (not counting the Tension-eating ones), and decent players could probably slashback Michael Blade Overdrive if they saw it coming, it's not that hard to backdash from either. As said earlier, Saperia Trance can be ducked under as well. The fastest normals from range would probably be 5S and 2S...6H and 5H as they are now are still too slow. Stand-alone Michael Sword isn't that fast either and doesn't have much range.

I don't see N.B. as useful unless you can use multiple N.B. for elaborate mixups/oki. But as a keep-away tool...meh, I just don't see it being useful...it just seems too slow for that kind of use.

The only solution for "keep away" I can think of would be to give her her old Imperial Ray back...or at least a weakened version of it.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Blade

[Seku]

The closest thing I can think of to your description is GG2 Overture's "Robo-Valentine" (Valentine's Gear Boss Mode that looks like Justice)...she was meant to be semi-mobile, but she was a heavy tank that could absorb combos like they were nothing, yet fire a full salvo of ranged fast projectiles from the ground or air...but she had much higher defense compared to Justice in concept, something like super-armor at least. Her melee strikes (elbow chainsaws) were slow but powerful too. The only thing she lacked was the ability to deal with fast opponents without hoping the stuff she threw out hit.

Most of Justice' ranged attacks are slow at best (not counting the Tension-eating ones), and decent players could probably slashback Michael Blade Overdrive if they saw it coming, it's not that hard to backdash from either. As said earlier, Saperia Trance can be ducked under as well. The fastest normals from range would probably be 5S and 2S...6H and 5H as they are now are still too slow. Stand-alone Michael Sword isn't that fast either and doesn't have much range.

I don't see N.B. as useful unless you can use multiple N.B. for elaborate mixups/oki. But as a keep-away tool...meh, I just don't see it being useful...it just seems too slow for that kind of use.

The only solution for "keep away" I can think of would be to give her her old Imperial Ray back...or at least a weakened version of it.

Sword is the special attack and not the overdrive, correct?

If it is, then I'm pretty sure that this move stuffs a LOT of other moves at a huge amount of range (up close to the sword and at its mid point-ish ) and its start-up is pretty decent.

If this is the overdrive then disregard my post.

[Blade]

Michael Blade can be avoided/slashbacked/super-countered due to Flash startup.

Michael Sword can stuff things, yes, but isn't the fastest special coming out...certain ODs and S. Volcanic Viper can beat it...at best it can trade hits or is good as a start-of-the-duel move or guard-string ender. It also has a bit of an electricity warning (spark on the hand) when it's coming out and has no FRC.

As far as range goes, Michael Sword only has about one character space in front that it can hit, so it isn't as good as other faster long range pokes she has...only benefit it really has is that it's a good anti-air/mid. Long range lows can beat it too.

On that note, I've seen people block Michael Sword just to use the Guard Stun to get closer to punish.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Blade

[Silmerion]

Michael Blade can be avoided/slashbacked/super-countered due to Flash startup.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Michael Blade only has one frame of start-up, right? Why would you throw that out from neutral anyway? Seems like more of a guaranteed punish to me.

[Blade]

It's a range move...if Justice loses her mobility, she may have to use it more.