Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

qwerty

Mist Stance Dash Jackhound

Recommended Posts

This thread will refer to the System Guide and assumes a decent level of familiarity with both Johnny and GGXX. If you don’t know what Mist Canceling is, you shouldn’t be reading this yet.

Table of Contents:

1.1: Intro

1.2: Practicing MSDJ

1.3: Improving Consistency

1.4: Combo Potential

1.5: MSDJ vs MSJ

1.1: Intro

What is a Mist Stance Dash Jackhound?

It is just as it sounds; a Mist Stance Dash (66 after 236P/K/S) canceled mid-way into a Jackhound (214D).

But hold on, I thought Jackhound was nerfed in AC?

Well, sort of. It’s true that a naked Jackhound is pretty bad in AC, and even Mist Stance Jackhound is only situationally useful. However, if you look at the frame data, you’ll find that the maximum stagger for a Mist Stance Dash Jackhound is a whopping 65 frames! Not only that, but it has the least proration of any version of Jackhound, only reducing your follow up combo to 80% of its normal damage.

So how exactly does this work?

Simply put, you confirm into this off of just about anything you want, and the other guy is put in a stagger that’s nearly impossible to get out of. It lets you do pretty much whatever you want after Jackhound, which sends Johnny’s random hit damage potential (or abare) through the roof.

Is this necessary for me to learn? It seems pretty hard...

At lower levels of play, you can feasibly play Johnny without knowing how to do this. It’s absolutely crucial, however, for high level Johnny play, since it allows him to score damage at ranges where Low Mist Finer and JI Killer Joker won’t connect. It also allows him to score damage off of pokes that aren’t jump cancelable and thus can’t be jump installed, namely 2S and f.S.

Can this be performed on pad?

I’ve tried it on both a PS2 pad and on a PSP, and while it’s definitely possible, it’s much harder than it should be. I can’t do it with any consistency on pad, myself. Not to discourage you from trying if you’re set on it, but I highly suggest you get a stick if you feel that you’re at the level where learning techniques like this is your next step.

How do I go about practicing this?

Glad you asked; that’s what this thread is for, after all!

1.2: Practicing MSDJ

First of all, you have to be aware of the fact that the timing does change depending on which Mist Finer level you’re currently at. Level 1 being the strictest, Level 2 being a bit more lenient, and Level 3 being even more lenient. I suggest learning on Level 2, since it’s what you’re going to be doing most in actual matches. Level 1 is important as well, but that’s just gonna make you wanna tear your hair out if you learn it first.

The reason the timing changes between Mist Finer levels is simply because the higher the level, the faster you can enter the Mist Stance. The hitstop on the normal you Mist Canceled stays the same, but you can cancel the move’s recovery faster at higher Mist Finer levels.

Now let’s take a look at the actual input:

236K/S 66 214D

(Author's note: I seriously advise against using P for MSDJ, lol)

Simple enough, right? The thing is that the input needs to be done quickly and smoothly.

Before we go any further, let’s set up training mode. Set your Mist Finer level to 2, set the CPU Slip Recovery to Level 2 (since realistically, you can’t get out of this stagger unless you start mashing before the move even hits), and turn on the input display.

Hold on to your hats, because shit’s about to get frustrating.

One of the aforementioned benefits of MSDJ is that it lets you score damage off of pokes that can’t be jump installed. Of those pokes, f.S benefits the most from being able to MSDJ, since it’s Johnny’s farthest reaching ground normal. In many matchups, Johnny uses this move to control space at long range, since many characters can’t out-poke him there nor safely approach him from the air.

The problem with f.S, as I’m sure most people reading this know, is that it’s very risky; it hits inconveniently high and it’s a death warrant on whiff. However, it’s a risk that Johnny has to take, and one that pays off if you can MSDJ.

So, if you want to learn MSDJ the hard and practical way, the best way to do it is off of a normal hit f.S. If you can perform it from that, you can perform it from anything.

If you’re struggling with that, you can try CH f.S first. Just know that you’re given way more time to buffer your inputs due to the added hitstop.

After that, you should try performing it from a gatling. 5K 5HS, 5K c.S 5HS, 2K c.S 5HS, etc. You don’t have to confirm directly into the Jackhound, which makes life easier, but you do have to be able to buffer the input during normal hit hitstop.

1.3: Improving Consistency

Now for what most of you have been waiting for this entire time; advice on how to improve your consistency!

If you ask me, the easiest way to perform MSDJ is to hold the second 6 input of the dash and then input 214D as soon as you confirm that you’ve dashed. It works because this game gives you a very lenient buffer window, and because you can visually confirm the dash; you just have to be quick about it.

Another way I like to perform it, particularly at Level 1, is to input the first 6 immediately after entering the Mist Stance, and then immediately input the second 6, in one fluid motion. The timing is pretty strict, but at Level 1 you’re usually going to be doing it from a gatling, anyways; if you do it fast enough and right as you enter the Mist Stance (which, remember, starts a bit later than it does at Level 2), it should come out with no problem.

If needed, I can make a video tutorial since I know how useful those can be for stuff like this. Just know that if you’re getting the inputs but not getting the results, you have to either start later (at Level 1), perform it faster, or both.

1.4: Combo Potential

Of course, this thread wouldn’t be complete without talking about the combos you can do after a MSDJ.

Gravity screws with things a bit here, but if you only did 1-3 hits before the Jackhound, you’re probably fine with doing whatever.

At Level 2:

- f.S -> Low Mist Finer -> Air combo

- f.S -> Mid Mist finer -> Corner combo (spacing permitting)

- 2D -> MSJ -> Bacchus Sigh (spacing permitting)

- 5K 5HS -> JI KJ FRC -> Air combo (spacing permitting)

- f.S -> MSDJ xN -> 2D -> Bacchus Sigh

In other words, WHATEVER YOU WANT (spacing permitting).

At Level 1, I just like to link a 2D and land a coin.

1.5: MSDJ vs MSJ

The problem with MSDJ is that sometimes, you end up too far away to follow up with anything. That, and not being confident in my ability to confirm it will lead me to sometimes do a Mist Stance Jackhound instead.

The upside to a MSJ is that it doesn’t have the momentum of the dash, so you’re always put close to your opponent. At the max range of f.S, for example, you’re put right next to the opponent, which means you can throw (using an option select such as 6P+HS, of course) if, say, you’re at Level 1 and really want to land a coin. Or, perhaps you’re at Level 1, but you have 50% tension and the other guy’s a combo away from death. You can confirm from a max range f.S, and then do 2P 5K 5HS JI KJ FRC -> Air combo. Or whatever. Just keep in mind that with MSJ, you have less time to hit the other guy after Jackhound, so you should be looking to either land a throw or a very fast (6 frame or less) move.

That concludes the Mist Stance Dash Jackhound tutorial, for now. Below is a video demonstrating common misinputs, as well as a correctly performed MSDJ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of them. 2D obviously doesn't work because it forces an airborne state, and 2P/2K/2S are pretty hard to confirm into naked. That's why you do it from a gatling for the latter pokes; one of Satou's favorites is meaty 2K c.S 5HS MSDJ -> JI KJ combo.

Another thing I'll add in there at a later time is that if you hit the opponent while he was in a crouching state, he remains in a crouching state for as long as he's on the ground. This means that if you want, you can punish moves like Greed Sever or combo off of a jump in with f.S 6HS MSDJ xN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Demonstration video(s) would be fantastic if it's not too much trouble, qwerty. Definitely helps people to understand, and honestly the Johnny forum needs the activity ;_;

If anybody out there is thinking about picking up Johnny to play with the new release of Accent Core to Xbox LIVE and/or PSN, or if you're still out there trying to brush up on your JO game for your next showdown please don't hesitate to speak out or ask questions in the Johnny forum. I'm sure that there is a surprising number of experienced players lurking here, hoping that someday people will freely talk shop about JO again.

If you're new and you're interested in Johnny or just Guilty Gear in general, speak up and help us help you help the scene and the game. :JO:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone wants a demonstration, I can help live at www.twitch.tv/honnou

For those that miss the broadcast, I can make a video about it when I get a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One day, when I have actual video capture equipment, I'll make a nicer video. For today, this will do:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think it's bad now, wait until you're on the receiving end of it. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you do a mist stance dash jackhound off of a mist stance backdash?

If you can would you be able to do 236P > 2144D to buffer jackhound as you input the backdash?

or do you only get the true msdj off of a forward ms dash?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can do it from a stance backdash, but cannot be buffered the way you said, or any other way (i think).

btws is the gaming coming out for EU psn soon or wtf :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just had the idea from practicing some hazama combos where you do jakou into buffered houtenjin dash

623D > 2366B

and it works for him

So i figured if i could do that it would be way easier than the standard way to msdj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mist Finer Stance is a 236 motion, so it'd be more like 23644214D. Not quite as easy as just learning how to do it correctly. :P

That being said, you could use a Jackhound from a back dash to change the spacing if you wanna do a weird combo afterwards. Or, as a burst bait if you're close enough that just holding the Mist Stance would get you hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you think it's bad now, wait until you're on the receiving end of it. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEcxoKmjyq8 <- round end, sort of.

5HS, MSDJH, 3HS, 6HS, MSDJH, 5K [JI], 5HS, KJT>KJ(frc), j.K, dj. P, j.P, j.P, j.K, j.D, Ensenga 1-hit.

Character: Eddie

Mist-finer level: 2

Meter spent: 75%

Damage: 268

Once you get the hang of it (MSDJH) : as soon as you get a coin in a match, it feels like you are walking around with a loaded gun. Superduper useful :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×