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Isuyaru

[CSE] Carl Clover Gameplay Discussion/Questions/Help

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Trufax

Just gonna say, Zero is arguably better than Viper.

Carl is a really good character, but he only becomes any good after a really steep curve and even then his real flaws (ass defense, no good high-low solo/non-situational mix up and no good way to get out of pressure) can't really be fixed, except the last one with some meter. So unlike Ragnya or Hazama or Bang, Carl will never really be that derpy S-Tier. He will never be bad though, so that that's always good.

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http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1329213212/338

Just checked the BBS for Carl. It seems like the same old news with Carl loketests-- loads of negative. I'll post a small summary for the current changes:

1) You can no longer combo after cantabile (lift height is too low)

2)5B on block can't be j.c'd

3)4D sends opponents flying upward

4)2D bounce height lower, but still combo-able

5) Fuoco really fast, comparable to unlimited nirvana fuoco lol

6) 6D hitstop possibly got lower, easier to break from sandwich combos

7) After J5C it's possible to cancel into j2C

8) 3D forces down

9) Anima doesn't cause opponents to bounce

Basic Carl loketest stuff as before. Though the 5B being impossible to jump cancel on block was already in a loketest before (CS2 loketest or CSEX one).

The new move btw draws opponents in when they're close enough. She basically does a spin once and if the opponent is close, she does 2 attacks. Hitstop is pretty low.

Arcsys i love EXT Carl... plz don´t worse him. Seriously 5B need to be jump cancelable, i hope that they don't change fuoco into to something very fast, if that happen we could loose a good tool for oki.

I don't understand too well the 4]D[ change, but if Carl can still do j2.C~allecancel combos with 4]D[ i suppose that the change will not be something to worry. About Cantabille, we can´t loose that move, carl dost need to be exaggeratedly needy of Nirvana.

If 3]D[ force down on ground combos.... that will be our bigger nerf, 3]D[.

Weird changes...

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Im not to worried, arks does this in every version. Nerf the kid to hell to remove his loop/reset the once its gone buff him from there, however i do see the 3D nerf staying, and its not that bad we can still do the same UB setup,, it just isnt a loop anymore.

[edit]

Also this actually works for us, with this new changes 3D will now be our primary launching tool instead of cantabile. Think about this

WOCN

3c oki into IAD jc/3D>j2c>allegreto>Brio *combo path* so all hope is not lost. However this wall bound think may provide even more combo opportunity

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that is tru, however our options are limited. Seeing as how ada has only 1 low attack and in order for us to attack and block simultaneously we has to attack extremely close to the ground. Implying that we have no choice but to be in the air, mean adas only option is the low. Now since the low forces KD then it is possible to preform the UB setup but it is not possible to loop it now that we have nothing to reset them in standing position.

To add more fule to the fire if by some miracle of god that we get a super extra long 2b that has 0 red hiboxes and we make a 100% safe UB with 2D it also lifts the enemy in the air, so as of right now both our ada mixup tools lift into the air making it impossible to loop it...... unless cantabile can hit people in the air and force standing then it is impossible to do a reset/loop at the present moment.

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What was ASW thinking by not letting us combo after cantabile....

Oh well, I guess I'll keep my hopes up as I always do. Carl always ends up coming out in the end, but jeeze. These changes are drastic.

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What was ASW thinking by not letting us combo after cantabile....

According to the latest updates you can combo after Cantabile, but you need Nirvana set up already. There's notation for a combo that goes 5B > 6B > Cantabile > 2D > j.2C Allecan > sj.B > j.2C > j.B > j.C > 8D > [???] for about 4k damage. There is more stuff there, but the person who translated it for me wasn't sure he got everything right, so I'll leave a proper translation to somebody else.

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yeah thats pretty big for a somewhat lazy commbo, especially with no allegretto> 8D added at the end

if the 3D change is final, i can see a jc> 3D knockdown followed by an alle can, since jC can cancel into 2Jc, which would lead to that follow up 4k combo that was posted

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Hmm in order to get that kind of damage our P2's must have been buffed to the heavens

also with that buff it leads to a new air combo route

Sj.jb>jc>J2c>jb>jb>jc>j2c>jc/allegreto <-------------------- this right her = godlike.

This makes our air hitconfirms way more resourceful. jaa>jb>(22D)jb>jc>(2D)J2c>jc>2D *combo route*

>=D we might be considered Stier if this keeps up

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lol we said the same thing about EX Carl and look at how he turned out

And CS and CS2.

When will we learn to stop worrying and just wait? Carl has been A-tier every game and people still keep freaking out during the loketests. Just wait.

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アニマ打撃投げに。コンボに赤ビートで組み込める。 - anima changed into an attack grab, ie. possible to integrate it mid-combos (It's blockable, no teching involved)

バウンドしないから2Bとかで拾う。 - anima doesn't bounce, so 2B is the pick up

ラプソディがめちゃ早い - Rhapsody is really fast

side note : If anima is a physical attack, then expect hakumen to counter it lol (though they did nerf his counters)

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Yeah, I like the changes a bit. I don't want 5B to remain impossible to jump cancel on block though.

Other fun changes that aren't related to character balance are:

1)Carl's voice sounds angry like a devil when he says Vivace now XD

2)He pronounces the full names of Nirvana attacks, like instead of Anima he says Con Anima or something like that

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the 5B thing is a big nerf but not impossible go get around,, just means more returning to neutral at the end of a blockstring. Also now that anima is a attack it can be used in our crossup game.

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5B not being jump cancelable, mean that we can´t do simple stuff like 5B jump, IAD j.B, j.C, or 5B jump, land 2A, when you are in CoN. That is a very good mixup, ideal for baiting stuff and get reset, that type of setup is always used by Ryusei. I don't understand why they want to remove the jump cancelable in ours normal's, i still miss the 6B jc.

Also, im not happy with the new cantabille changes. Cantabille was always buffed when they released a new BlazBlue, but now they just want to make it unusable

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Situational combo tool doesn't mean unusable. It's a rather good psuedo oki, like someone mentioned before, and would probably work well with the faster fuoco in the same fashion as it is with j.C. True, you need doll in order to get better damage, but not only did I think that was the original concept of carl (stronger than the sum of its parts), it's also what I remember hearing what everyone wanted of carl.

Many complained the last 2 iterations how it seemed like Carl was the main force while you just used Nirvana every once in awhile. Well although it didn't happen in a buff like everyone wanted, now you will have to rely on nee-san a lot more to start getting anything worthwhile. Keep in mind that it seems lots of other characters seem to be getting hit in comboability as well. I mean, Rags can't even dash cancel 5D anymore. I truly wonder how he will get midscreen damage now.

Losing 5B jc does suck, but guess what? It's also a loketest. If it does stay, try to mix up your opponent in different ways now. Losing that makes us lose 2 of our what...9 mix up options from 5B. Wait at least until the arcade release to claim carl got hit by a shit storm. Personally, I'd be perfectly fine with the loss of jc 5B if we just got an overhead that we didn't need to use 6B for to get in range.

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8Dとブリオは今までどおり空バリガでのみガードできるみたい - 8D and brio are unchanged

あとアニマは空中の相手もロックできるっぽい。カンタービレ>アニマが赤で繋がった- anima can hit air too, cantabile> anima combos

6B>2Cルートはたしかにありました - 6B>2C route available, timing for the follow up is very strict though (ie. vivace>jB>jB(2D)>jC)

なんとなく2Cの浮きが前より若干低くなっている気がします - 2C lift height seems a lot lower than usual (game system change seems to be the case)

2B>3Cルートは削除されてました - 2B>3C route no longer possible, gatling was removed

On his overdrive (OD); It seems like nobody on the BBS knows what his overdrive even does! It doesn't increase nirvana's damage and it doesn't look like Nirvana's speed increases either...

here's the link: http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1329213212/389

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The new 4]D[ and Cantabille just suck! so bad! In the match, Carl vs Amane it seem that thank to the new 4]D[, j2.C~Allecancel 4]D[ is worthless!. How they can remove that combo, it was one of the best and very hard to do from Carl.

The new 6]D[, when you connect it when the opponent is in the air, it will make him floor slide, you can pik up with 5C. Oh well, that change is acceptable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofLHo047tEU&list=PL44D50B286EC0335B&index=11&feature=plpp_video

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46D is fast. Like, faster than volante fast. I wonder if it keep be used to can people wary of just dashing in to jab then run. Have to see it's attack properties.

4Throw looks like the trajectory changed. Utility still looks the same.

4D I'm not sure how I feel yet, but it at least has potential.

2C...please, someone test if you can connect 6A after A viv. I was screaming that at my computer screen.

Anima has become interesting. Finally I can use the dang thing.

Cantabile. Oh yeah everyone, unless you have doll or meter to burn (which you're carl, it'll happen), treat it as oki. And god, if you're listening, make it low.

Allegretto gives a a weird rise at the end of the animation. wonder how that will affect dash agretto.

6D...please keep that.

I swore fermata also had like houtenjin height. I don't think they went completely offscreen before.

Still can't tell for ass what OD does.

Overall, not bad for the first loke test, at least compared to everyone else atm. I expect to gain another 2 or so nerfs in the next one along with another buff.

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