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Isuyaru

[CSE] Carl Clover Combo Thread

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oh volante loops

why did they remove thee? :eng101:

You can still do j2.C allecancel volante combos in CP

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You can still do j2.C allecancel volante combos in CP

Really?!

Pics please (video)

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For the j.2C, I suggest to try to start (not hit) it when your opponent's height is around Nirvana's head. This should allow you to hit the allecan at a good height and make sure that the opponent is still low enough so that you can follow up with 5C into whatever. Just keep practising and you'll hit it.

The j.2C, allegretto, 8D ender is actually quite tricky; I still drop it more often than I'd like lol. This ender is alot easier if you're the right distance away from Nirvana (1.5 character length?). For the input, I usually do j.2C, j.214C78D and it's relatively consistent for me. To get the double hit on the 8D, you have to release it slightly early.

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I didn't know where to put this, because the EXT video section for Carl is locked.

Just for fun and nothing fancy, the setup that Kyaku used against Tager at GopsGarden #5 + some thing.

I hope that you like it! ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJoZdFBbTo

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I didn't know where to put this, because the EXT video section for Carl is locked.

Just for fun and nothing fancy, the setup that Kyaku used against Tager at GopsGarden #5 + some thing.

I hope that you like it! ^^

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJoZdFBbTo

i tried to do this but I either ate a mashed tech wheel or i somehow ended up grounded

would be easy if you didn't have to keep pushing Ada..

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i tried to do this but I either ate a mashed tech wheel or i somehow ended up grounded

would be easy if you didn't have to keep pushing Ada..

You could do dash [5B, j.2C, j.B, j.C, dash 5B, j.2C...] It's not really any easier than having Nirvana push you but it doesn't require Nirvana to be near you and it saves a bit of doll meter. It also works midscreen.

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i tried to do this but I either ate a mashed tech wheel or i somehow ended up grounded

would be easy if you didn't have to keep pushing Ada..

Well, is not like that this setup is a "must learn" against Tager. You can still use the other corner UB setup, the one with IAD but! it consume more Nirvana gauge and the dmg isn't as good at this Tager only setup.

You could do dash [5B, j.2C, j.B, j.C, dash 5B, j.2C...] It's not really any easier than having Nirvana push you but it doesn't require Nirvana to be near you and it saves a bit of doll meter. It also works midscreen.

I also notice that Carl can solo combo Tager with the Dash cancel and carry him to the corner... but, that timming is not like CS2, so is more hard doing that and trying to move Nirvana while carrying Tager to the corner.

After watching the vid and keep asking myself? "how can i be more OP"... i remember! that after that setup you can go to the Fermmata UB setup! would you imagine that? that Dmg! xD... The magic of execution >_<

PD: I never learner the fermmata ub setup U_U

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I've upgraded my carl now :v

Same combos as before but I have a new ender:

X>3C>Gear Distortion>623D>j.C+3C>

If opponent techs:

j.66B+3C>j.C>5B>6B>623C>5C>j.B>dj.B>j.2DC>j.C>hj>j.B>dj.B>j.62C3D>j.C>3C>Above Ender. Repeatable and builds about 55 heat so you never have an overall heat loss.

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For mid combo alle-cans, I keep screwin it up. I feel like I might be too strict on the timing, but I dunno, I keep getting just allegretto instead of the cancel. Is this thing difficult on timing or am I just putting in j214C too quick?

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You're probably inputting it too quickly. Just slow down your input and you'll be fine. The timing's not strict but if you do it too fast, you'll get a raw allegretto instead of an alle-cancelled j.2C.

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One more question and its rather minor, is it necessary for the timing on the UB loop to be so perfect that the ai cant block it or will keeping it slightly rough be good enough in most cases?

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most people don't have the finger speed for even slightly staggered UB, though its not truly unblockable unless its timing is perfect.

The easiest timing I've found is:

2AD>5B>2B>6B+(2D)

j.2C>j.3AD>j.A>j.B(3D)

j.5C3D>j.665B(3D) since all the timing is in the moves, you don't have to actually time anything yourself.

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You don't even need fast inputs to do a UB (not on stick anyways), it's mainly about timing.

Anyways, you don't need to make the UB frame-perfect but at the same time, try to make the gap between the two moves small enough so that it's impossible or at least really hard for your opponent to block it.

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I got sick of not being able to do meterless unblockable loops against Noel, Mu and Rachel because half of my active scene at the moment plays those characters. So I found a few things that work, they're relatively difficult though.

Notations to come probably tomorrow, when it's not 2:30AM

Video description:

So Carl has his standard unblockable reset setups using 3D to give him time to air dash at the opponent and keep going from there. This is the one I use at the start of each video. The problem with just using this again is that 3D is used as part of the unblockable so it's pretty much the start of a combo. You can't do 3D again to set up another unblockable because of repeat proration issues so you need to be more creative.

The usual combo for after the 3D + j.B unblockable is something along the lines of

j2.C~Allecancel, 2B, 5B, 6B, 6D, 6C, 2A, 2B, 5B, 5C, 8D, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B, 3D

However this doesn't work on some characters for various reasons

Noel: -5B after j2.C~Allecancel, 2B whiffs, hence the dash 5A 5B 6B instead

-Once you've done this, 2A 2B 5B 5C 8D will make 8D's first hit connect and send Noel out of range of the bubble and ruin the combo (in other character's cases you can rising j.A or j.B to push them back but Neol is too short). Omitting the 2A seems to have stopped the first hit of 8D from hitting for some reason. You do need to do 8D much earlier than normal though.

Rachel: -She's too short... 8D's bubble doesn't hit her unless she's right under it but there's no way to stop her from getting hit with the first hit of 8D. To get around this I've done 8D very early and timed 5C so that it hits JUST after the first hit of 8D and pushes her back to point blank with Ada. Luckily then she's short enough to only get hit at the last second giving you time to jump and fall back down.

Mu-12‎: -{retty much the same as Noel

-5B after j2.C~Allecancel, 2B whiffs, hence the dash 5A 5B 6B instead.

-Once you've done this, 2A 2B 5B 5C 8D will make 8D's first hit connect and send Mu out of range of the bubble and ruin the combo (in other character's cases you can rising j.A or j.B to push them back but Mu wont get pushed back enough). Omitting the 2A DOES NOT HELP IN MU'S CASE. She will always get hit by the first hit of 8D with the normal combo. To get around this I used 421D instead of 6D because Ada ends up further away so the first hit of 8D whiffs. Then I need to push Mu back closer to the bubble but 2A 2B 5B 5C ends with me not having enough time to fall out of my jump to j.2C correctly so I use 662A 2B 5B 8D j.B. j.B will miss if you don't dash before 2A.

Platinum: Platinum fails for all the reasons above and more... I can't get anything to work D:

You'll have to just reset with a 6B + 2D unblockable (j.2C Allecan 665A 5B 6B 6D 6C 5A 2A 2B (2D) 5B 6B) A short combo after that should kill.

There's a 2nd example done on Noel where the combo starts with 6C after the unblockable. This works on Mu and Noel AFAIK so far but is pretty flawed because you need to do 3D in your unblockable later to allow 6C to hit so you're making your unblockable easier to block. You also need to do 6C immediately which means it's harder to block reversals.

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^good vid, but i'm pretty sure you're able to do the universal loop on those mentioned characters, and i've seen it done (and i've personally done) on them as well (I think noel is the harderst but spacing is critical)

Plus JG posted a whole tutorial on the un-blockable set up, I think it's time for an update on the Carl section. That video was good but the dash cancelling into 5A can definitely be omitted (you probably already know this). I just wanted to make sure that people who are learning Carl don't think that it isn't possible to use the loop on Noel, Rachel (i would've thought litchi would given you more trouble) and Nu (same with Rachel)

but honestly... Nu and Rachel??!??!? really? did anybody else have problems using the loops against those guys, I never had issues.....

Nope, I was wrong. turns out I was just seeing lucky resets. Here's JG's post about those specific characters

:: Unblockable Setups ::.

- Universal Unblockable (This work with all the characters in this game)

5B, 2B, 6B, 6]D[, 6C, 2A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 3]D[, IAD, j.A, j.A, j.B, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B + 3]D[

If your starter is 5A or 2A (Max one more A after the last A in the begining)

2A, 5A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 3]D[, IAD, j.A, j.A, j.B, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B + 3]D[

If your starter is 6C (Max three A after 2A)

6C, 2A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 3]D[, IAD, j.A, j.A, j.B, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B + 3]D[

After any j.B + 3]D[ UB (This need 50% to perfom a Rapid Cancel)

5B, 623C (Cantabile) Rapid Cancel, 5B, 2B, 5C, 3]D[, IAD, j.A, j.A, j.B, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B + 3]D[

- Unblockable Loops (This work almost with all the characters)

5B, 2B, 6B, 6]D[, 6C, 2A, 2B, 5B, 5C, 8]D[, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B, 3]D[

If your starter is 5A or 2A (Max one more A after the last A in the begining)

2A, 5A, 2A, 2B, 5B, 5C, 8]D[, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B + 3]D[

If your starter is 6C (Max one more A after the last A in the begining)

6C, 2A, 5A, 2A, 2B, 5B, 6C, 8]D[, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B, 3]D[

On NCO (Max one more A after the last 2A/5A string that continues from Vivance A)

5B,6B, 6]D[, Vivance A, 2A, 5A, 2A, 2B, 5B, 5C, 8]D[, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B + 3]D[

After any j.B + 3]D[ Unblockable:

j2.C~Allecancel 2B, 5B, 6B, 6]D[, 6C, 2A, 2B, 5B, 5C, 8]D[, j2.C, j.A, j.A, j.B + 3]D[

- Dificulty of doing the Unblockable Loops:

S::AR::RG::TS::MK::TA: (Arakune, Ragna, Tsubaky and Makoto need a very strict timing that permit input the 8]D[ very very early in the 2B after 6C, 2A. Taokaka need dash cancel 5A/2A after 5C.)

A::BANG::TG::HA: (Bang and Tager need the second hit of 8]D[ and then doing j2.C. For Bang case, he need the j2.C almost too close to the ground. Hakumen 6C full charged Unblockable need strict timming.)

B::JI::HZ2: (Kinda strict timming)

C::RE::LI::VA::HA::LA: (Relaxed timming)

Chars that until now this loop doesn't work, in this case i recommend using the Universal Unblockable. You can spend 50% meter for a Rapid Cancel and do this again, then after the j.B + 3]D[ UB end it with a big dmg combo.

:NO::PT::CA::MU::RA:

*Keep in mind that in any Unblockable loop you should deactivate Nirvana after 6C and activate after 8]D[ for better results.

** Almost with all the character in this game you will only need two Unblockables, max three, and then a good combo after the UB for deploying all of his life.

*** Best combo after any j.B + 3]D[ UB: 5C, 623C (Cantabile), 5C, 421]D[ (Volante), j2.C~Allecancel, 5C, j.C, 4]D[, land, 5C, j.B, j2.C, j.B, j.B, j.C, 2]D[, land, j2.C, Allegretto, 8]D[, 214214]D[ (Fermata) - Total DMG: 5289 aprox. If you have another meter to spend you can add 3C, 632146C (Gear Super), 8]D[ - Total Dmg 6124 aprox.

**** Remember that the j.B + 3]D[ Unblockable is DP safe. You only need to do option select Unblockable + Barrier

***** Hakumen can always escape with a counter move, except the 6C Full charged Unblockable. In that case is best to alternate the j.B + 3]D[ with j.B + 63214]D[ (Anima) or even 2]D[.

****** You can´t do safely Unblockables all the times again μ -12- because of his Origins move (623C). For this same reason, this is her only safe option so i recommend alternate the Unblockable with baits options.

*******The reason why the chars that i listed as ´´ doesn't work the Unblockables Loop`` is because the 8]D[ hit them almost instantly or just doesn't hit them. If you delay a lot the 8]D[ this only make that 8]D[ hit them two times very quick and not letting you continue the combo. Why i listed this, because is your homework as Carl user to discover a way to doing a Unblockables loop in this characters.

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so hakumen can't normal counter (non distortion/astral) a frame-perfect unblockable. Huh cool. Or he can and I just got lucky with someone not mashing D out on the reset frame.

Here is a fun combo btw:

3C>j.2C214C>Gold Burst (Some characters need a RC instead of a cancel, if this is the case, at the end skip the 3C>632146C)>Gold Burst(High hit)>214214D>6C (Charged)>j.2C214CD>5C>7j.C(4D)>5C>9j.6BD>j.5C(6D)>j.2C>j.5B>dj.5B>j.42C1D> j.5C(421D)>j.B>j.3C[D]>j.6B>dj.8B]D[>j.5C(8D)>214214D>forward Jump>3C >632146C>9j.5C3D>....

j.66B(3D) Frame Perfect unblockable.

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> ***** Hakumen can always escape with a counter move, except the 6C Full charged Unblockable. In that case is best to alternate the j.B + 3]D[ with j.B + 63214]D[ (Anima) or even 2]D[.

but i could have told you before i even saw that that he can, since it is not a true UB, it's just a high and low so close that it is impossible for someone to guess right. but they can still get lucky.

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^good vid, but i'm pretty sure you're able to do the universal loop on those mentioned characters, and i've seen it done (and i've personally done) on them as well (I think noel is the harderst but spacing is critical)

Plus JG posted a whole tutorial on the un-blockable set up, I think it's time for an update on the Carl section. That video was good but the dash cancelling into 5A can definitely be omitted (you probably already know this). I just wanted to make sure that people who are learning Carl don't think that it isn't possible to use the loop on Noel, Rachel (i would've thought litchi would given you more trouble) and Nu (same with Rachel)

but honestly... Nu and Rachel??!??!? really? did anybody else have problems using the loops against those guys, I never had issues.....

Nope, I was wrong. turns out I was just seeing lucky resets. Here's JG's post about those specific characters

I've added the video notes to the post, it has some information as to why the loop doesn't want to work on those characters.

For the most part the issue is that they'll get hit with the first hit of 8D but they're so short that you can't get them to push back towards Ada far enough for the bubble to hit. Then after that they all have their own individual problems.

the dash 5A is definitely necessary against Noel and 90% of the time Mu, they get pushed back too far for 2B 5B 6B to hit.

Well mac I got frame perfect timing on the previous page so i guess people should use that vs haku :v:

As far as I know, Haku needs to guess whether the high or the low will hit first and counter accordingly... it's essentially a 50/50 guess. We don't want to do it because if he guesses right, we lose 60% of our health and our pressure. I'm fairly sure the length of the unblockable combo means that Haku will probably have enough meter for Yukikaze (super counter) anyway which is a free 40% with no combo needed.

I'm not sure what happens in frame perfect situations. In one case you could argue that he would get the counter because he'd catch the right move and then be invincible through the other one... in the other case he'd get hit by one move and be in hit stun for the other one. The only issue is that it's difficult to say what would take priority because usually you'll just find out which one hits first but in this case neither does. You can't trade with a counter either :S

I'll test this later I guess

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Regarding the frame perfect UB v Haku's counter, I did a little testing in the lab using a frame-perfect 2A + 2D*. The results were interesting; if Haku does 2D, it fails and he gets counter hit. If he does 6D however, the counter is successful. I'm not quite sure why it's like that but whatever. Then again, I vaguely remember LK mentioning that frame-perfect UBs don't actually exist in BB or something. I can't remember his explanation but I guess I could ask him later or something...

* I set the dummy to block everything and recorded the UB on that setting. Since the dummy got hit by 2A while being set to block everything, I'm assuming that it's frame perfect.

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The way you've set it up would indeed be frame perfect. I think I've seen something to suggest that frame perfect unblockables are blockable as a player but the training dummy will let them hit. From memory I think it's just the game processing it differently when it has to factor in that the player is holding 4 or 1 and not just a bot blocking perfectly.

To keep this combo-thread-y

in the corner, doing 623C then 2]D[ when they're at the peak of the "launch", waiting for them to hit the ground and then 3C will cross under an emergency tech and you get a quick crossup that's less obvious than Carl shouting "VIVACE!".

From there you can do the following:

j.2C ~Allecan, 4214C]D[, j.2C ~Allecan, 5C, 4]D[, j.C, 7dj, delay, j.2C, j.214C, 623]D[, 5C, j.B, 6]D[, j.C, j.2C, j.B, dj.B, 8]D[, j.C

This alone does about 5.2k damage and builds around 60 heat. You can then 214214]D[, 3C 632146C for just below 7k.

Managing to move Ada forward at any point at the start makes this much easier as 4D and 623D only just reach

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oh damn

I just realized that this is all useless since 3D has force knock down now -_________-

well at least the Carl section had some action.......

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