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Lord Knight

Lord Knight's GAMEPLAY RELATED QUESTIONS ONLY thread (EX edition)

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Hey LK. I have an issue that I've noticed in my past games against stronger players. I win a lot, but the second people stop blocking, I start losing. :V What I mean by this is, they abuse their wake up options to simply get out. Not like Dps or anything, but I mean annoying stuff like backdashes. Essentially what I'm asking is this. What do I do about backdashing with Hazama? Whats my best options you think? I plan on working on this on my own, but I'd appreciate your input. Characters I'm more specifically concerned about are Tao and Litchi. lol

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Hey LK. I have an issue that I've noticed in my past games against stronger players. I win a lot, but the second people stop blocking, I start losing. :V What I mean by this is, they abuse their wake up options to simply get out. Not like Dps or anything, but I mean annoying stuff like backdashes. Essentially what I'm asking is this. What do I do about backdashing with Hazama? Whats my best options you think? I plan on working on this on my own, but I'd appreciate your input. Characters I'm more specifically concerned about are Tao and Litchi. lol

yomi 214D~C, dash 5C houtenjin, dash 5C 2C etc, you have a few options~

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yomi 214D~C, dash 5C houtenjin, dash 5C 2C etc, you have a few options~

These work fine;

Another decent option is IAD j3AB if you are afraid of mashed reversals / DDs (if they hexaedge/DP you'll cross em up and barrier / if they backdash or backward roll you'll tag them with j.B, obviously loses to other stuff, can mix it up with j.b/j.2c, etc.)

There are also a few things you can do by ending BnBs with 214D~D instead of going straight to 214D~A for oki (mostly very easy to time safe jumps / empty jump > stuff).

Still, Tao feels kinda hard to pin down using Hazama :(

Also, LK:

- How do you feel about Litchi vs. Hazama in BBCSX? Of course both character got nerfed in some ways (I guess Litchi more than Hazama?), but from my scrubby POV, it doesn't feel like that match up changed THAT much / still seems even-ish?

I'd like to read your take on the match up / how you approach it with Litchi / what kind of patterns you look for when playing an Hazama player, etc.

- And since you use her as an alt, how bout Taokaka vs. Hazama? I think this may be his worst match-up, not a straight up counterpick but more like a very difficult match up because Tao kinda nullifies Hazama's zoning / chains game.

Edited by _Sey

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If they don't stop charging when you're running at her, then free counterhit into whatever you want.

If she stops and blocks, then free pressure/mixup.

Doesn't work like that once they have charge.

You're more likely to get a shield rush in your face, tbh. Tsubaki 101 is learning how to not get punished for charging and control the space around you when you're charging. Tsubaki's AA is so godlike precisely BECAUSE she needs to be capable of charging without autolosing whenever she does it. 5B used to be really good for this reason, too.

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snip

Arakune CT and CS1 backstep = god, CS2/EX = really, really good. If they dunno how to option select it, you can seriously just mash it out. Plus there are strings that you can just use backdash to escape out of, and getting away with Arakune is good (except vs the zoners, obviously).

I'm exaggerating about the 10k, but you do (read, SHOULD) take the round off curse, with little effort. Maybe 2 or 3 characters at most can actually do a little when cursed. If they have low primers from CA's/bursts, it's a definite win once you curse them.

The thing I don't get is why you're so focused with approaching with Arakune, you can play him like Tao in most of his matchups, characters can't AA you effectively without a projectile if you're good at using air to ground tele, and when you do catch them blocking, even if they block your pressure you can still end with 5D or just run away and repeat. In your example of Arakune vs Litchi, zoning with the staff is only effective if they aren't good with him and don't use air to ground teleport, it's actually extremely difficult for Litchi to stop Arakune from moving. If you really just ran around, use air to ground tele some, mash backdash/gold burst occassionally (gold burst beats the backdash OS), and played passively until you curse them, you'd probably do better with the character. He's pretty braindead besides his matchups against the zoners (which shows me how good a player really is as Arakune, imo).

The thing is, most players try to overcomplicate their character/character's gameplans, and get lost within the muddle, thus losing. I've seen it a lot (and I've been there too).

2C[M] valk.......and ive been getting beat this whole time when you can just do THAT when hes going to bait *rage quits life*

but seriously, i find it easier to get in on valk if i keep him grounded by launching the staff at 5D set, does this count for all valks or just mid to low level ones?

Yeah, that's fine, it's tough if they just fly at you directly, because if you have the staff set at 5D set, you're actually only covering a really small area in front of her. I prefer to set the staff in 2D set, watch, release when he flies, then tag him with Hatsu if he tries to come down on me from above. That or you can always move the staff forward some. He can still pretty much move around anything though.

How do I get in on LAmbda?

How do I stop tsubaki from charging without giving her 3 stocks?

How deal with hazama chains?

How do I get out of Tao crossups?

How do I get out of Nirvana sammich?

1) 2D, watch her, hit 2D when appropriate, follow the staff. IAD when she does 5D, dash in when she does 6D. It's a bit of a guess, but the moves have long recovery. If they are running around you, stick out moves at a safe midpoint.

2) Bully her, invade her space. Once she gets 1 charge, the neutral changes quite a bit, and it gets harder to deny her more stocks.

3) IB > jump/5A or put the stick down > watch what they do > launch it.

4) Be more specific, you can't really "get out of" crossups, you can guard them properly or avoid the situation though.

5) You lost if you let yourself get sandwhiched.

Hey LK. I have an issue that I've noticed in my past games against stronger players. I win a lot, but the second people stop blocking, I start losing. :V What I mean by this is, they abuse their wake up options to simply get out. Not like Dps or anything, but I mean annoying stuff like backdashes. Essentially what I'm asking is this. What do I do about backdashing with Hazama? Whats my best options you think? I plan on working on this on my own, but I'd appreciate your input. Characters I'm more specifically concerned about are Tao and Litchi. lol

Airdash j2C, Zaienga. The former is also a safe jump.

Also, LK:

- How do you feel about Litchi vs. Hazama in BBCSX? Of course both character got nerfed in some ways (I guess Litchi more than Hazama?), but from my scrubby POV, it doesn't feel like that match up changed THAT much / still seems even-ish?

I'd like to read your take on the match up / how you approach it with Litchi / what kind of patterns you look for when playing an Hazama player, etc.

- And since you use her as an alt, how bout Taokaka vs. Hazama? I think this may be his worst match-up, not a straight up counterpick but more like a very difficult match up because Tao kinda nullifies Hazama's zoning / chains game.

I still think the match is even, it's a bit harder since he has more freedom (as far as movement), but his chains are a lower level, so it's not too bad if you block them. He can still rob me with huge damage, but he's not that good at getting out of pressure, same as usual.

Since he's more of a movement based character, I try to figure out ways to deal with their movement, if they aren't that good/only use really linear ways to approach I do 5DD over and over, if they are better at moving around I have to use more options. Once I catch them blocking I try to take the round, because the longer I extend the round, the more likely I'll lose.

With Tao I just run around and do whatever until they whiff in my face/I catch them with D, combo > repeat. Sometimes I'll end with low j236b enders, so that I can keep pressure. It's not too hard because they are both movement based characters, but his chain has no blockstun now.

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I've noticed you emphasize not overthinking during a match.

What're some examples of what you'd consider overthinking? And what level of thinking would you say is right?

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If you're taking time to consciously think out things, in my experience, that means it's going to take too long and you're going to get owned. I just go by instinct, but it's instinct that's trained by experience to react in certain ways so I won't have to deliberate over it.

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That's it. Everything we do when we play just leads up to win or lose in the end.

Fair enough, I can agree with that.

My question was more for the sake of training a top performer, though. Anything and everything counts then to get an edge.

How exactly do you humble yourself without making yourself look cocky?

Rage when you win, and be the finest gentleman when you lose.

Praise tough opponents, and especially congratulate newbies for besting you.

Emphasize your losses, mistakes, and poor matches. Display your wins as outlier events.

But above all, mean it. It's only a facade otherwise.

If you're taking time to consciously think out things, in my experience, that means it's going to take too long and you're going to get owned. I just go by instinct, but it's instinct that's trained by experience to react in certain ways so I won't have to deliberate over it.

Precisely.

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There are times when you have more time to think and a little more time to gaze over your opponent's stats and have a quick mental caclulation on how they might react. gadget finger is a prime example of this, the move takes so long that you can think "Right, it's Ragna, he has 50 heat now, ID rapid seems his safest move, I'm winning heavily so it seems something a desperate person would do. Backdashing seems to be a favourable option." Obviously thought out much quicker than you just read that.

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Arakune is easy, just mash backstep, only a couple of characters can stop it 100% in a really damaging way

I play Litchi, what's a good way to punish his backstep?

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Hey LK. Incase you didn't get my msg, ggs today. Also, you mind criquing my playstyle?

I can bait your hakumen's counters easier than other hakus I play. Were you trying to do it earlier than intended?

EDITED.

LK - When you talk about not thinking are you talking raw talent? or something that isn't inherent?

Edited by Star-Demon

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ggs today LK. Having actually played you, do you mind critiquing me as well? I recognize some of the things I need to work on myself, but someone who's actually played me can probably provide more constructive criticism. Things I know I need to work on include:

-Spacing/Footsies

-Pressure, primarily mixing in throws and frame traps

-Oki

-Defense (I think I respect pressure too much)

-Approach for lack of a better term

Those are the main things I'm aware of that I know I need to work on. I was under the impression that I could fix most of this by simply playing more, but now I'm not too sure. That's about all I can think of but once again, thanks for the games.

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I can bait your hakumen's counters easier than other hakus I play. Were you trying to do it earlier than intended?

EDITED.

LK - When you talk about not thinking are you talking raw talent? or something that isn't inherent?

tbh, I guess I got caught in the whole "wtf is this guy doing?" thing

Koopa is this true???

Come on man... I don't think I lost more than 2 rounds with Hakumen...

and I'm suppose to care because?

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tbh, I guess I got caught in the whole "wtf is this guy doing?" thing

That happens to me a lot when I fight Star. I get the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Y U NO PLAY LIEK LK feeling every time I play a scrubby Litchi.

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That happens to me a lot when I fight Star. I get the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Y U NO PLAY LIEK LK feeling every time I play a scrubby Litchi.

Here, lemme explain -

For one - Unlike me, LK doesn't have any reason to feel he's at some sort of fundamental disadvantage.

I'm trying to not attack any Hakumen unless I make the read that they won't counter or just hit C.

Ideally, I want you to fuck up. Not many people around here do, so I'm kinda at a loss on defense unless I have a character that can hide her options easily as long as she's defending solid. Defending in this game is actually very difficult, so If you really wanna walk all over me, bully the shit out of me.

Most of the time, I'm spending my time trying to outsmart opponents. I have no execution or fundamentals or anything, but I have a little bit of character knowledge and I like to pick up on your habits when I can. That's all I got.

Anyways - I noticed I could bait Koopa's counter. He gets spooked. He should focus on bullying the shit out of Litchi. I'm of the mind that you gotta play hakumen, Tager, and Noel the same. Bully like hell.

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No your wrong.

Hakumen can play however they want and that's his biggest strength.

They can play passive and build meter then explode.

They can rush in and press buttons using meter when necessary.

They can even just turtle and punish mistakes.

Point is Hakumen doesn't need to bully, he can just make you respect him.

I normally beat Hakumen by disrespecting.

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Yep, Haku has the advantage of having a fairly flexible playstyle because of counters.

I tend to play rushdown myself. Except against Tager, who I lame out as much as possible.

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I don't think Haku has a bunch of equally valid play styles. By that I mean I think they can be fun, but there's still one "true" style, which is to alternate between hanging back and gathering power and waiting for your opportunity, then rushing in and making the most of it once you see your chance. That's how I play him anyway. Seems to combine all of the aspects together.

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Sure he does. He's probably the only character who can be offensive while being passive, which means he can afford to dick around and do wtv.

He can still dish out 1 - 3k without stars, and run a rudimentary mixup or sorts to keep his opponents on their toes while building up stars. Then you land a hit -> corner carry -> corner combo for 4 - 6k -> Hakumen Ween!

Elementary, Mr. Mac. :D

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Sure he does. He's probably the only character who can be offensive while being passive

Tsubaki is also like this.

Charging is a flashing neon sign that says STOP ME FROM DOING THIS, and charging is rather passive unless you're doing CCs

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I disagree.

Charging puts her in a vulnerable state, and is necessary for Tsubaki's offence. It's something you have to actively keep up on or else you're gimped as a Tsu player.

On the other hand, Hakumen threatens his opponent's offence simply by having counters. It's a passive deterrent since he doesn't need to use them for them to be effective, so he can still be a threat just moving around the screen doing his own thing.

Tsubaki's charge just puts her in CH state. It's not comparable, imo.

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Tsubaki also has a stupid good anti-air, and will probably get D shield rush from charging (which, even after being nerfed, is still pretty damn scary) unless you stopped her from charging right when she started. 5B (and sometimes 5A) can also stop approaches, to an extent. Those are also passive deterrents.

She can still threaten while charging, since, as a Tsubaki player, one of the most important skills is knowing when to stop holding D to defend your space; no one is going to keep holding D until they're hit. The strength of charging isn't necessarily in how much it makes Tsubaki better; it's more in how, once you hit D, your opponent needs to do something about it if they want to keep life from getting harder.

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Why do people keep talking about Haku threatening offense with counters when Ragna is equally or more dangerous with ID? The only reason Haku can be offensive while turtling is cause of passive meter gain.

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