Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
mAc Chaos

[CSE] Hakumen Combo Thread

Recommended Posts

^ that's pretty smart to omit the 5c if you're expecting the burst. Nice.

I've seen some interesting corner combos from Japanese players off of counter hit starters. Combos that have a jc-5c-2c-jb-loop somewhere in the middle of the corner loop. Not sure if testing has been done with these sort of combos. Maybe I'll do that later once I get Extend back since my roommate took my Extend >: |

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^ that's pretty smart to omit the 5c if you're expecting the burst. Nice.

thanks, but I'm not just omitting the 5C, I'm also moving 6A 6C (which are basically the only totally safe burst point for the opponent) in the middle of the combo, after the first loop :)

I've seen some interesting corner combos from Japanese players off of counter hit starters. Combos that have a jc-5c-2c-jb-loop somewhere in the middle of the corner loop. Not sure if testing has been done with these sort of combos. Maybe I'll do that later once I get Extend back since my roommate took my Extend >: |

in most combos you can do something like that, basically you use 6A after the first loop, then 5C or 6C (if you didn't already use it) > 2C relaunch > j.B etc. especially, moving the 6C midcombo is useful to make the beginning of the combo more burst safe while still dealing good damage (for damage purposes is always better to use 6[C] lv2 right at the beginning instead)

for example, these are 2 routes I use with corner tsubaki starter:

- tsubaki > 6[C] (lv2) > hop > 2C sj.2A j.2C > 6A > 5C > 2C j.B j.2A j.2A AD j.2A j.C > 5C 3C

5.4k dmg

- tsubaki > hop (> wait a little in case they burst) 2C sj.2A j.2C > 6A > 6C > 2C j.B j.2A j.2A AD j.2A j.C > 5C 3C

should be around 5k I don't remember exactly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you need to hit the opponent pretty high in the air with that 5C in order to relaunch with 2C afterwards. the problem is probably in the airdash j.B j.A part, you're not delaying the j.A enough.

alternatively, try using j.A j.B instead, that should leave the opponent higher.

also, with 5C starter you can do an additional loop in the corner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
you need to hit the opponent pretty high in the air with that 5C in order to relaunch with 2C afterwards. the problem is probably in the airdash j.B j.A part, you're not delaying the j.A enough.

alternatively, try using j.A j.B instead, that should leave the opponent higher.

also, with 5C starter you can do an additional loop in the corner

alright thanks man ill try that out let ya know if i got it in a bit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

uhhh.. I dunno, since you said you could reach the 5C > 2C part, I assumed you pretty much knew the various delays needed for that combo... maybe the problem is before the airdash then. you need to delay almost everything. I'll try to break it down:

5C renka(1) kishuu => you have to hop or wait a little before 2C

2C jc j.B j.2A => delay j.B a little after the jump cancel, then delay j.2A as long as you can, it should hit with the hilt of the sword, hakumen should be lower than the opponent

(this j.2A is the crucial part, if you can do it right, the rest should be pretty easy)

airdash itself should be delayed a little, then hit j.B just before hakumen begins to lose the airdash forward momentum, delay j.A when he starts falling, then hit 5C as soon as possible and you're set.

for j.A j.B the delays involved are a little different: more delay after the airdash, not so much between jA and j.B since j.A untech time won't permit it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can delay the j.A after the j.B in that video a little longer pending on how you've spaced it. There's enough untech to wait a bit longer than I had in that video, but obviously you don't want it to whiff and you don't want them to be so high that the 5c whiffs, too.

If you were getting the 5c and not the OTG 2c, you might want to make sure you're actually getting the 2C out on the first frame available because the 5c to hit relatively low in the corner for them to tech the 2c. It's not as strict as midscreen. If you were getting the 5c low enough for the 2c to tech, you would definitely know from looking at it. You can land some pretty sloppy 5cs and still get the 2c. If you're landing the 5c and it looks remotely like it does in the video, then you shouldn't be dropping the 2c part.

Ultimately what you want to do with this combo is get the AD j.B (just the j.B, don't delay the AD) out as late as possible. If they weren't close to the ground when they did it because you timed something else wrong or hit the j.B too early, switch gears and do a 2C combo instead of a 5C combo.

I'd have to look into a j.A/j.B version for advice...

Also, some new combos:

(3) (Corner)Renka (1) > Kishuu, 6c, 2c > sj.B > j.2a, j.2c, 6a, 5c, 2c > j.B > j.2a, j.C, j.2a, AD j.2a, j.C, 5c, 3c (5310 , 2.7 stars)

(0) (Corner) Throw, 6a, 6c, 2c > j.B > j.2a, j.C, j.2a, AD j.2a, j.C, 5c, 3c (3278 damage, 2.6 stars)

Been seeing these in JP vids recently. They're a bit execution heavy for the last part with the two j.Cs on certain characters but I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be character specific, but it will need testing. Don't have damage values / meter gain atm, but it was higher than most other alternatives, especially in the meter department (the Renka one recovers close to 3 stars...) In most situations it requires a low-proration starter like Renka or 5c, but for short combos like throw it also works.

Edited by dioxideUniversa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd have to look into a j.A/j.B version for advice...

Hmm, the J.A > J.B version isn't much different. This is a bit of repeating what others said, but hopefully it still helps someone:

  • delay the initial 2C until your opponent is completely grounded
  • delay the following J.B until you've risen a little above your opponent (like Hakumen's head is above the top of his opponent)
  • delay the following J.2A until you've fallen a bit below your opponent (like half of Hakumen's body is below his opponent
  • delay the following Air Dash until your opponent has fallen a little bit below you (like Hakumen's head is above the top of his opponent)
  • Nothing else should be delayed.

Also, some new combos:

(3) (Corner)Renka (1) > Kishuu, 6c, 2c > sj.B > j.2a, j.2c, 6a, 5c, 2c > j.B > j.2a, j.C, j.2a, AD j.2a, j.C, 5c, 3c (5310 , 2.7 stars)

(3) Renka(1) > Kishuu > [6C] > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 6A > 5C > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 5C > 3C [5499 - 5693 / 2.9]

This is a better combo if the starter is not 5A, 2A, or 2B . In those cases, your combo is the best that I've seen.

Been seeing these in JP vids recently. They're a bit execution heavy for the last part with the two j.Cs on certain characters but I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be character specific, but it will need testing. Don't have damage values / meter gain atm, but it was higher than most other alternatives, especially in the meter department (the Renka one recovers close to 3 stars...) In most situations it requires a low-proration starter like Renka or 5c, but for short combos like throw it also works.

Are you sure you need a Renka or 5C starter? I was able to get even 2A > 2A starter working if I took out the SJ.B and just did SJ.2A .

Edit: So I tested the throw combo and it does indeed work on everyone. I'm pretty sure that means the non-throw combo also works on everyone. If you're going about practicing it, you should practice it on Jin which will allow you to land it on everyone else besides Hakumen, Arakune, and ... Mu-12 (might just have been me screwing up >__> ) . For those two or three, you can just practice on Arakune and you'll get it down.

Edited by IndigoNovember

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just realized you can connect 5C after 2D. 2D's proration is bad though so you can't do much with it damagewise, but you can maybe have more corner carry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well you can get slightly better corner carry if you do 2d>hop 5c>2b>214a>hop 2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c can proly do 2d>hop 5c>2b>5a>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c on some chars, too much work imo =/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The damage output, magatama regained, and distance carried aren't really different enough to warrant switching over... In fact, they aren't that different at all. Like xlolxlolx said, it's not really worth it to switch to/learn the new combos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(0) (Corner) Throw, 6a, 6c, 2c > j.B > j.2a, j.C, j.2a, AD j.2a, j.C, 5c, 3c (3278 damage, 2.6 stars)

I'll need help on that one... Somehow, my 6c whiffs about 90% of the time. Somehow I feel like i'm holding C too long so I was searching for the right timing... What should I look for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll need help on that one... Somehow, my 6c whiffs about 90% of the time. Somehow I feel like i'm holding C too long so I was searching for the right timing... What should I look for?

^ I think you are not supposed to hold 6C in that combo

You're not supposed to in any combo unless:

1)The opponent's wall bounce is really high in the corner and you want to land a 6c on them, for ground slide. Granted you only want to do this when you know they can't/won't burst

2)Your opponent has a fat hitbox lying down i.e Tager and Rachel.

3)You got an FC/CH on hotaru/tsubaki, which goes back to the first point, since hotaru on FC wallbounces slightly higher, and a CH tsubaki ground slides longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you must hold 6C in some combos for going into mugen. Though its hardly usable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

about that corner throw combo, there's an easier variation anyway

throw > 6A 6C > (hop) 2C j.B j.2A j.2A > AD j.2A j.C 5C 3C

exactly 3200 dmg / 2.4 star gain

I don't know if it's really worth it to go with that harder j.C > re-jump j.2A route with a difference of 78 dmg and 0.2 star gain.

---

about the D-starter combos, I think spending 1 extra star for gurren is worth it most of the times (especially considering that star comes free with the counter anyway). corner carry is a lot better, I think it's maximized by using gurren > airdash route rather than gurren > hop whatever:

2D > (hop or walk a little) 5C gurren > AD j.B j.A > 2C j.2A AD j.2A j.C (5C 3C)

also works with 6D starter (> hop 5C gurren etc. I'm pretty sure you have to skip the initial j.2C)

it's possibile to reach both corners and get your 5C 3C knockdown from P1 position

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
about that corner throw combo, there's an easier variation anyway

throw > 6A 6C > (hop) 2C j.B j.2A j.2A > AD j.2A j.C 5C 3C

exactly 3200 dmg / 2.4 star gain

I don't know if it's really worth it to go with that harder j.C > re-jump j.2A route with a difference of 78 dmg and 0.2 star gain.

Worth it in terms of return? Not really... Worth it in terms of getting the combo down since it is used for the optimized weak starter corner combo? Starting to seem worth it... It is true that you don't have to optimize your combos to this extent though, especially if the execution is too annoying.

Personally I've used this for a while:

(0) Forward / Back Throw > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 2C > SJ.B > J.2A > J.2A > AD J.2a > J.C > 5C > 3C [3212 / 2.5]

about the D-starter combos, I think spending 1 extra star for gurren is worth it most of the times (especially considering that star comes free with the counter anyway). corner carry is a lot better, I think it's maximized by using gurren > airdash route rather than gurren > hop whatever:

2D > (hop or walk a little) 5C gurren > AD j.B j.A > 2C j.2A AD j.2A j.C (5C 3C)

also works with 6D starter (> hop 5C gurren etc. I'm pretty sure you have to skip the initial j.2C)

it's possibile to reach both corners and get your 5C 3C knockdown from P1 position

Using Gurren to extend Zanshin combos is definitely worth it most of the time. I believe me and xlolxlolx were more of commenting on the non-Gurren 2D combos that use 5C .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll need help on that one... Somehow, my 6c whiffs about 90% of the time. Somehow I feel like i'm holding C too long so I was searching for the right timing... What should I look for?

Hit 6A as soon as possible, hit 6C as soon as possible, don't charge 6C for best results. There's no special timing for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Worth it in terms of return? Not really... Worth it in terms of getting the combo down since it is used for the optimized weak starter corner combo? Starting to seem worth it... It is true that you don't have to optimize your combos to this extent though, especially if the execution is too annoying.

I see your point, I have to check the dmg / heat gain differences with the other weak starters.

by the way, I actually use that re-jump ender a lot but not from "common" starters like throw o renka>kishuu combos. I usually go for it when I land some random anti-air or air-to-air starter, sometimes I don't realize that I'm that close to the corner and autopilot into superjump > aerial. at that point I know I could add 1 more loop but the height isn't good for the usual falling j.2C > 2C relaunch, so I go for that j.C > re-jump j.2A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^ I think you are not supposed to hold 6C in that combo

What I meant is that not knowing the right timing makes me try to mash it but I sense it charging slightly, which is something I want to avoid.

Getting the hang of it though. I just don't know the precise timing so I can just tap it once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see your point, I have to check the dmg / heat gain differences with the other weak starters.

I was mainly just referring to the combo that dioxideUniversa posted a page back:

(3) [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > [6C] > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 6A > 5C > 2C > J.B > J.2A > J.C > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 5C > 3C [3784 - 6357 / 2.5]

which works off of any starter. If you get a better starter like 5C, you can instead do this combo which doesn't use the J.C > J.2A stuff:

(3) [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > [6C] > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 6A > 5C > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 2C > J.B > J.2A > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 5C > 3C [5140 - 6536 / 2.9]

by the way, I actually use that re-jump ender a lot but not from "common" starters like throw o renka>kishuu combos. I usually go for it when I land some random anti-air or air-to-air starter, sometimes I don't realize that I'm that close to the corner and autopilot into superjump > aerial. at that point I know I could add 1 more loop but the height isn't good for the usual falling j.2C > 2C relaunch, so I go for that j.C > re-jump j.2A.

Very nice. My execution is too bad for me to attempt them at the moment orz .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was mainly just referring to the combo that dioxideUniversa posted a page back:

(3) [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > [6C] > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 6A > 5C > 2C > J.B > J.2A > J.C > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 5C > 3C [3784 - 6357 / 2.5]

which works off of any starter. If you get a better starter like 5C, you can instead do this combo which doesn't use the J.C > J.2A stuff:

(3) [starter] > Renka(1) > Kishuu > [6C] > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 6A > 5C > 2C > SJ.2A > J.2C > 2C > J.B > J.2A > J.2A > AD J.2A > J.C > 5C > 3C [5140 - 6536 / 2.9]

yes but, as you said, the second combo you posted is for good starters. we should compare the first one with something like this:

[weak starter] > renka (1) kishuu > [6C] > 2C sj.B j.2A falling j.2C > 6A 5C > 2C j.B j.2A j.2A AD j.2A j.C > 5C 3C

(basically, one loop less)

I did some testing with weak starters and the result is that the re-jump ender is still not worth it imho. for example with 2A 2A starter I got

3849 dmg / 2.6 star (standard ender)

vs

3913 dmg / 2.7 star (re-jump ender)

Very nice. My execution is too bad for me to attempt them at the moment orz .

thanks but my execution is average at best, in those kind of random hit corner carry combos adding that re-jump j.2A is way easier than in a full corner combo as the ones we were discussing above :) you should try it

Edited by RushingMonkey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I did some testing with weak starters and the result is that the re-jump ender is still not worth it imho. for example with 2A 2A starter I got

3849 dmg / 2.6 star (standard ender)

vs

3913 dmg / 2.7 star (re-jump ender)

*shrug Combo optimization isn't always that practical. I'd say it's useful to learn how to do it, but not to rely on it if after you've learned it, you don't like it.

thanks but my execution is average at best, in those kind of random hit corner carry combos adding that re-jump j.2A is way easier than in a full corner combo as the ones we were discussing above :) you should try it

My biggest problem is that I just haven't sat down and trained myself to do the re-jumps yet. I can pull them off, but it isn't consistent is what I'm trying to say. They were actually present back in CSII I believe...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×