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What does it mean in the combo guides on dustloop when they talk about "S Starter" vs "N Starter" ? Thanks

See the 'Starter Rating' section: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Damage_(BBCP)#Combo_System

Each move a character has has a starter value attached to it. You can see the full list of starter ratings for your character's moveset on their frame data page: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Frame_Data_(BBCP)

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Gallery Mode. Under Items. Section 2 has colour pallets for characters. What does Section 1 have? (I can't read Japanese to make heads or tails of it so I thought I'd ask here)

I apologise if this has been asked already or the answer is right in front of me somewhere and I can't see xD

Unlimited characters.

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I'm currently trying to do some frame math to figure out what gatlings/cancels I can mash out of after an IB on defense. Characters with late gatlings aside, what is the earliest that a normal can be canceled? Is it on the first recovery frame? Or the frame immediately after the attack connects, i.e. possibly during remaining active frames?

Edited by Kikirin

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The first frame of recovery after the active frames end.

Formula is: attack level - next attack startup, + 2 (for ib)

Are the levels listed on the wiki?

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Thanks! The wiki does have attack levels for moves as well as a table that (generally) maps blockstun values to them, so that aspect is covered. The CP individual character pages even conveniently have a column for blockstun for those who haven't memorized 'em.

From my understanding, the math for determining the frame gap would then be:

[ Blocked attack's remaining active frames ] + [ startup of next attack ] - [ blockstun from blocked attack ] ( +/- other modifiers ).

...subtracting an additional 1 to beat it outright instead of trade/clash.

So taking Rachel's 5B > 5C as an example:

- 5B is Lv 3 (16f blockstun), with 5 active frames

- 5C has 17f startup

Assuming 5B is blocked on its first active frame, the frame gap without modifiers is then:

4f + 17f - 16f = 5f?

I think the wiki mentioned -3f for instant block, so that would be a large enough gap to IB and punish with 5a/2a for a lot of characters?

Edited by Kikirin

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Anybody know if the HK psn store is the same as the JPN store? My friend wanted to buy HK version of CP because its much cheaper compared to JPN. Does the Hong Kong version have all the dlcs and everything for the game? Please and thank you~

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l had to look back at what l said, because rachel 5b -> 5c is definitely a 1f gap on normal block. using what l said, 5b ja would have a gap and that isnt possible.

what l said applies more to static difference and delayed strings, which isnt exactly what you asked (though you did mention it).

if you cancel a move into another on the first possible frame (5b 5c for example), active frames wouldn't be included. so the formula is actually attack lv - next attack startup (+/-block modifiers). ib'd 5b 5c is 16 - 17 startup - 3 ib= -3. barrier is simply 16 - 17 +1, and normal block is 16 - 17, and so on.

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l had to look back at what l said, because rachel 5b -> 5c is definitely a 1f gap on normal block. using what l said, 5b ja would have a gap and that isnt possible.

what l said applies more to static difference and delayed strings, which isnt exactly what you asked (though you did mention it).

if you cancel a move into another on the first possible frame (5b 5c for example), active frames wouldn't be included. so the formula is actually attack lv - next attack startup (+/-block modifiers). ib'd 5b 5c is 16 - 17 startup - 3 ib= -3. barrier is simply 16 - 17 +1, and normal block is 16 - 17, and so on.

Hm, interesting. I would think that blockstun begins on the first frame after the attack is received, so the remaining active frames would then be added to the gap before the next attack goes active, if cancels can only be made on the recovery frames and not the remaining active frames.

To clarify, by "recovery" frames, I mean the amount of time between the attack's final active frame and when the attacker returns to neutral, which I assume is the meaning of the Recovery column on the wiki.

I don't think remaining active frames are skipped after an attack hits/is blocked, because otherwise that would mess up the static difference calculations. Though if the remaining active frames count as part of the "recovery" for this calculation, which'd be a slightly different definition of recovery than the one above, then that math works out.

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l had to look back at what l said, because rachel 5b -> 5c is definitely a 1f gap on normal block. using what l said, 5b ja would have a gap and that isnt possible.

what l said applies more to static difference and delayed strings, which isnt exactly what you asked (though you did mention it).

if you cancel a move into another on the first possible frame (5b 5c for example), active frames wouldn't be included. so the formula is actually attack lv - next attack startup (+/-block modifiers). ib'd 5b 5c is 16 - 17 startup - 3 ib= -3. barrier is simply 16 - 17 +1, and normal block is 16 - 17, and so on.

This isn't quite right either. All attacks NEED to have at least one active frame, otherwise, they can't hit at all. After that one frame, you can then, generally, gatling.

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This isn't quite right either. All attacks NEED to have at least one active frame, otherwise, they can't hit at all. After that one frame, you can then, generally, gatling.

sure they need to have one active frame but the MATH is that the active frame doesn't matter. 13f block stun + 13f startup = no gap. active frame does not come into play.

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Technically, a move's first active frame is included in the startup (at least according to most frame data conventions), so it ends up being counted twice in the frame data. Jin's 5A: 6F startup + 3F active + 9F recovery is actually 17F total, because the "real" startup is only 5F.

I believe blockstun begins on the first frame after the attack connects, so using the example of Jin's 5A again, it would be 9F blockstun - 9F recovery - 2F remaining active = -2, which is what the frame data says as well. If you connect on the last active frame, it's +0 instead. This first blockstun/hitstun frame is the point when you can gatling as well, so all you need to do to calculate whether there's a gap is subtract Move Two's startup from Move One's stun, like TD said. Remaining active and recovery frames don't make any difference, you're canceling them because you're canceling the move.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

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This first blockstun/hitstun frame is the point when you can gatling as well, so all you need to do to calculate whether there's a gap is subtract Move Two's startup from Move One's stun, like TD said. Remaining active and recovery frames don't make any difference, you're canceling them because you're canceling the move.

Sweet, this completely answers my question.

Thanks, all, for the discussions/explanations regarding it.

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Technically, a move's first active frame is included in the startup (at least according to most frame data conventions), so it ends up being counted twice in the frame data. Jin's 5A: 6F startup + 3F active + 9F recovery is actually 17F total, because the "real" startup is only 5F.

I believe blockstun begins on the first frame after the attack connects, so using the example of Jin's 5A again, it would be 9F blockstun - 9F recovery - 2F remaining active = -2, which is what the frame data says as well. If you connect on the last active frame, it's +0 instead. This first blockstun/hitstun frame is the point when you can gatling as well, so all you need to do to calculate whether there's a gap is subtract Move Two's startup from Move One's stun, like TD said. Remaining active and recovery frames don't make any difference, you're canceling them because you're canceling the move.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

Yep -> http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Using_Frame_Data

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Hey,

can someone explain to me how burst baiting works in CP if indeed it still does?

I was playing offline games with a friend the other night, and upon baiting burst he just got overdrive instead.

As far as i know overdrive is invincible so i am unable to punish this, so essentially he has still got out unpunished.

I read some where that this only happens if overdrive is timed as a reversal but am confused as to what this means in regards to baiting the burst.

What can i do to prevent it being timed as reversal? All i did was stop an A,B gatling short in order to bait.

Thanks

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As far as I know burst baiting usually consists of jump canceling and blocking after a hit that you think your opponent will burst. Some characters have other ways of killing and punishing anticipated bursts, Relius can Led Ley right through them, Tager can use his spark bolt charge because it deflects projectiles, Bang can use his drive, Theoretically any projectile invincible, guard point, or catch move will work but I don't know for certain. Another option is using a move that will keep you out of the burst's hitbox (Hazama players sometimes follow 236236B with 214D~B because people have a nasty tendency to mash burst after Houtenjin, this leads to a whiffed burst and humongous damage.)

The key is identifying your opponent's burst habits. Do they immediately burst the first time they get hit? Do they only burst when cornered? do they like to burst to fling you back into a corner (I do this)? Do they burst when they get reset by you out of saltyness?

If you know when the opponent will burst all you must do is figure out a method that works with your character.

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Anybody know if the HK psn store is the same as the JPN store? My friend wanted to buy HK version of CP because its much cheaper compared to JPN. Does the Hong Kong version have all the dlcs and everything for the game? Please and thank you~

It does. I have it. Only downside is HK store is a few hours behind JP store so if you are super impatient for new DLC whenever there's a release it'll be a bit annoying.

Otherwise everything is identical, including who you can netplay with.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

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Hey,

can someone explain to me how burst baiting works in CP if indeed it still does?

I was playing offline games with a friend the other night, and upon baiting burst he just got overdrive instead.

As far as i know overdrive is invincible so i am unable to punish this, so essentially he has still got out unpunished.

I read some where that this only happens if overdrive is timed as a reversal but am confused as to what this means in regards to baiting the burst.

What can i do to prevent it being timed as reversal? All i did was stop an A,B gatling short in order to bait.

Thanks

Bursts were changed in CP in that they are incredibly fast now. It's pretty much impossible to react to them like you could in CSE. You can still definitely bait them with prediction though. Overdrive is only possible if they are in neutral, so if you launch them in any way it won't be possible for them to go into OD without first teching. So if you want to go for a Burst bait try to launch/knock down them ASAP and combo them afterwards.

Also, OD is invulnerable but it does have actual recovery time. Just because they use it as a reversal doesn't always mean they're always +. It depends on what you poked with when they activated it.

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Anyone having a problem with dropped inputs?

I've found it mostly happens when you get a PSN notification like XXX is online/offline, or a message, but when that happens you usually notice that no inputs are picked up for like 5 seconds (Exxagerating here, its like a few milliseconds).

Im testing it right now with my controller adapter's input recording function and lining up that with the screen.

When i do 623CC ABC 623CC (I doubletap and advanced input), i get 623C RC j.C 623C

edit: I accidentally a word or two.

Edited by someonewhodied

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Thanks for the reply's on the burst baiting guys. It sounds like i predicted the burst correctly, but the person i was playing had timed his burst late, and must have recovered from the 5b when he hit burst. hence the overdrive activation.

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Does ragna have a good 5b startup or is it only as good on counter?

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Uh. Not really sure what you mean, but:

Ragna has one of the faster 5Bs in the game - basically competing more with characters like Tao and Hazama whose 5Bs are close range pressure tools rather than mid range poking tools (like Ragna's). However, it only extends to its full range for the latter part of its active frames, which means at max range, it's actually significantly slower than most 5Bs.

That said, it is a very good move.

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Uh. Not really sure what you mean, but:

Ragna has one of the faster 5Bs in the game - basically competing more with characters like Tao and Hazama whose 5Bs are close range pressure tools rather than mid range poking tools (like Ragna's). However, it only extends to its full range for the latter part of its active frames, which means at max range, it's actually significantly slower than most 5Bs.

That said, it is a very good move.

Isn't Ragna's just straight max range from the first active frame? You might be thinking of Jin's 5c.

Individually speaking Ragna's 5b isn't THAT godlike, it's mostly because he has very good range on everything else too so he can actually take that into things. Compare that to a 5b like Izayoi's, which is actually way bigger albeit slightly slower, yet it's much worse because she lacks any other normals to follow up a max range 5b poke with. Hence why Ragna has the best 5b in the game even though there are characters with 5bs with better range and comparable startup.

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