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I also find people like to burst if they get caught in a second combo immediately after a first. Not necessarily a reset, could be after a mixup on oki.

 

I feel like it's one of those things you just come to 'know' after a while when it clicks.

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Ask the following. Which moves of mine are being bursted? Does the opponent wait till near death to burst or do they do so immediately? Do they like to burst moves that confirm large damage. When have they taken too much damage to consider a burst worthwhile? Are they only bursting stuff I have to rapid to block a burst?

 

Characters like Tager will be far more likely to burst you into a corner, than characters like Nu or Kokonoe who can gain advantage with distance.

 

I find that bursts are more probable when:

 

The opponent is being reset

The opponent is about to lost the entire match

The opponent just got their burst back.

The opponent's DP or long risky move got punished.

 

Super good points Myoro and stickystaines. I would also like to point out that, while there are some standard scenarios when most normal players will burst, Burst Baiting is a player specific thing. You will play some people who don't burst at all (usually because they are saving it for overdrive, or they feel that it's cheap) and you will play some people who burst the INSTANT they get touched (like a certain Rachel player I know).

 

"The opponent just got their burst back": In my experience this will happen when your opponent's burst finishes recharging during your combo.

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Well, the easiest burst to bait is of course the "I have to burst now or I will die" burst.  Maybe start trying to figure those out first.

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Usually (as happens in my experience) people like to burst in reaction to getting hit with a high damage starter (2C, 6B, etc..) but those are the most predictable.  Unless you play Nu and you don't have to worry about silly mechanics like bursting.

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Its also good to know your on-demand character specific burst baits if applicable. Jin's D dp, Az growler, Tager VC, Relius Ley, etc. Mostly for when you're at that point that you cant jump to block the burst.

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I was wondering why crouch combos work? Like why does 5c > 6c for jin only work on crouching opponents?

 

Crouching state adds 3 frames of hitstun received from each move I believe might be a little more or less. It's akin to Fatal counters but it goes away when they are forced standing or knocked airborne.

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Crouching state adds 3 frames of hitstun received from each move I believe might be a little more or less. It's akin to Fatal counters but it goes away when they are forced standing or knocked airborne.

 

C'mon people, it's two frames, and it's right on the freakin' WIKI.

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I said I was uncertain lol, and I was only one frame off. I've never been too concerned with the matter because all crouch confirms let me do is 5B>5C>6C>236C~214B which doesn't do even 200 more damage than a standard 5B>5C>3C>236C confirm

 

or 5B>5C>6C>214A>665B>2C>236C~214B 3.1K but costs 4K Ignis

 

and really if I'm in range to do 5B>5C I'd prefer doing 5B>6B>5C(1)>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B>Airdash. Better damage, better oki, 1/4th the cost, works on standing.

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I was wondering if someone could help me with throw defense. I have looked for videos and guides on teching throws or throw defense and the only things I see are the explanations on what they are (like what buttons, which I know but that doesnt help me use them) but not any tips or guidelines so I am really struggling here. 99% of throws on me are successful right now.

 

Is it reaction time? I feel like even if I hit b+c to tech a throw pretty quickly its not fast enough. if its a purple exclamation point throw (throw from block/hit stun) then SOMETIMES i get the tech.

 

at high level gameplay I see INSTANT throw techs like they tech immediately when the throw is executed how can they possibly have that reaction time its inhuman.

 

Is there something I am doing wrong? Or techniques people are doing that I am just not aware of? Please help because right now my opponents who I play with regularly know I have this weakness so they started throwing more its killing me.

 

I tried going into training mode and putting cpu at 100 difficulty then just going on the defensive and I'm still not improving all the throws are landing.

 

Thank you.

 

PS: while I'm on this topic. Alot of my opponents throw on THEIR wakeup. Even when I am attacking. Whats the best way to punish this? Sometimes I will be doing something simple like a 5a or 2a on my opponents wakeup and somehow they get priority and throw me. What is going on there and how do I deal with this? To me this is crazy because I'm on the offense and they just don't need to respect my pressure they can just throw and it overrides my normals?

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There's option selects and anticipation via a throw setup. If you tap 4ABC it gives you barrier if they attack or throw tech if they throw. Anticipating the through based on a move that recovers quickly or has frame advantage gets beat by throw baits, but you cant be TRM'd(throw reject miss which means they get a free throw that you cant break regardless if ypu input throw tech at the wrong time) as easily when compared to the OS

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Yeah; If you see a basically instant throw break, it means either:

 

A) There was an option select involved (unlikely)

B) Both players just went for a throw at the same time

C) The defending player anticipated the throw and was basically already hitting the buttons when it connected.

 

In terms of getting better at breaking throws, most of it comes down to knowing when they are coming.  I guarantee you that if we went into training mode and I said "I'm going to walk up and throw you" you'd be able to tech it pretty much every time I did it.   The trick is to see when your opponent going to go for a throw. Also, if you can, watch their character for their throw animation - that gives you a couple of extra frames to react.

 

If your opponent is able to throw you on their wakeup, that means you botched the timing of your meaty attack, so you need to practice timing your attack so it hits them RIGHT as they are waking up.  This is easier if you use an attack with a lot of active frames, but those aren't always the ones you really want to hit them with (but any hit is better than nothing).  Since I see you play Rachel, 5B and 2B (or even 4B) are good choices here, though ideally, you probably want to learn how to do frog oki if possible, but for that you'll want to head over to the Rachel subforum.

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I have a little advice. If you're like me and you block low when the opponents grounded and high when the opponent's airborne and react to Overheads and Ara's Distortion, then throw breaking is made easy offline by the following facts.

 

-The opponent can only throw me on the ground when they too are grounded.

 

-When we're both grounded and I'm blocking, I'm blocking low.

 

-Throw forces a standing sprite.

 

Using these facts I can look for my own standing sprite instead of a small easily disguisable exclamation mark.

 

As far as I know, this is the best way to identify throws,other people use proximity, or OS their throw techs or search for the exclamation mark, but those strategies can be messed with.

 

The second best best way to beat throw on anyone's wake-up is to jump or use a move like Terumi's 5C/6B or Tao's 6B on their wake-up, but of course the latter options will get you DP'd

 

The best way to beat a throw on their wake-up is to meaty properly. A lot of character's 2A's are perfect for this but some characters Like Ragna Nu or Relius have special moves talor made for this (Dead spike, Luna Sickle, and Tus respectively) Basically use a move that's active when they first recover but has no recovery or is out of range of the opponent when they can DP or throw (If you can continue pressure after it's all the better)

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Thank you that actually clears quite a bit up.

 

So basically, a regular green "!" throw is pretty much impossible to react to right? you either expect it and are ready for it or else its probably going to happen. Theres no time to actually react to it right?

 

Yes I am a rachel player and I do use the frog for Oki alot. I often put the frog down and then run up to 2a/5a on wakeup and i get grabbed which cancels the frog. This happens alot in mid screen. Maybe i should be trying 2b sometimes as well? What frustrates me is i can see the attack like the little cat tail is poking out when i get grabbed...

 

I dont always block low but I do block low more than high. I like your suggestion though ill look into that. It honestly sounds like that throw option select thing is the way to go (4abc when i think a throw is coming). but, would If I am already doing barrier block? can i just add the c if i am already holding 4ab?

 

if i could get a little clarification:
 

 

Anticipating the through based on a move that recovers quickly or has frame advantage gets beat by throw baits, but you cant be TRM'd(throw reject miss which means they get a free throw that you cant break regardless if ypu input throw tech at the wrong time) as easily when compared to the OS

 

 

What did you mean by this? Particularly, you cant be TRM'd as easily when compared to the OS part.

 

 

Yeah; If you see a basically instant throw break, it means either:

 

A) There was an option select involved (unlikely)

B) Both players just went for a throw at the same time

C) The defending player anticipated the throw and was basically already hitting the buttons when it connected.

 

 

Why is option A) unlikely? OS seems to be exactly what I need to start doing.

For option C), I can try that, but arent I screwed if its a normal attack and not a throw?

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IMHO, the option select is a death sentence.  I advise against using it.  Here is why.

 

This game has a 'feature' called "Throw Reject Miss";  Essentially, for 30 frames after you press throw, you are in a "Throw Reject Miss" state, that PREVENTS you from being able to tech a throw.  So if you use this option select, and your opponent delays their throw for even a TINY amount of time, not only will you not tech it automatically because of the OS, but you'll be unable to tech it AT ALL, even if it's purple.

 

In general, you do NOT want to be pushing throw unless you're pretty sure the throw is coming.

 

There are a few specific situations where opponents will do a strike/throw mixup that is beaten by the OS, but this is rare;  You basically have to push the OS no more than 4 frames before the opponent tries to throw you, or it will fail and you will get TRM'd.  You actually have a better chance of teching the throw manually than you do of hitting the OS at the right moment since even the tiniest bit of jumping the gun will cause it to fail. 

 

The OS is a terrible way to try to be better at teching throws.  What it CAN be is a better way of beating people who fake you into trying to tech a throw and then hit you when you whiff your throw animation trying to tech it, since you'll get barrier instead, but that's pretty much the opposite of the problem you have right now.

 

It's NOT impossible to tech a green throw "on reaction" but it IS impossible if you're not familiar with the situation and expecting the throw attempt.  You are still REACTING here.  You're just reacting to something you expect instead of to a surprise.

 

Also, if you are getting thrown out of Frog oki, I think you're not setting it up right.  Refer to the Rachel forums.

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Thank you for all your help I have been working on defending throws. I put the comp on 100% in training mode and I'm just tryna defend. I'm still getting thrown but I'm also teching a little more too and thats more than it used to be.

 

Heres a problem I have run into. If I expect an air unblockable and I'm in the air, I'm likely barrier guarding while coming down. If I expect a grab when I land I tried to add the c button while I was already holding the a+b. It definitely didn't work. do I have to let go of barrier before teching the throw? but then ill eat the air unblockable. I'm specifically referring to jin's huge slash motion th cpu abuses that move like crazy if you are in the air. It's instant. Its unblockable. It takes up a HUGE portion of the screen. Its driving me nuts haha.

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Thank you for all your help I have been working on defending throws. I put the comp on 100% in training mode and I'm just tryna defend. I'm still getting thrown but I'm also teching a little more too and thats more than it used to be.

 

Heres a problem I have run into. If I expect an air unblockable and I'm in the air, I'm likely barrier guarding while coming down. If I expect a grab when I land I tried to add the c button while I was already holding the a+b. It definitely didn't work. do I have to let go of barrier before teching the throw? but then ill eat the air unblockable. I'm specifically referring to jin's huge slash motion th cpu abuses that move like crazy if you are in the air. It's instant. Its unblockable. It takes up a HUGE portion of the screen. Its driving me nuts haha.

 

So there are very few characters who can air unblockable you when they themselves are in the air, the ones I'm aware of are Haku Carl and Relius (Haku using Hotaru, Rel using 4D on jump start-up and Carl using 8]D[ or 623]D[ in the air I believe.) So for the most part you can just Barrier guard when the opponent is grounded and normal guard when the opponent is airborne and watch for grabs. [4A+B]~C should work to tech airgrabs though (Meaning yes you can throw break while using barrier, even in the air), but using barrier in the air is such an awful waste when the opponent is also airborne. In CP2 Barrier is looking far more scarce, so it may turn into a good habit if you start rationing it now.

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So there are very few characters who can air unblockable you when they themselves are in the air, the ones I'm aware of are Haku Carl and Relius (Haku using Hotaru, Rel using 4D on jump start-up and Carl using 8]D[ or 623]D[ in the air I believe.) So for the most part you can just Barrier guard when the opponent is grounded and normal guard when the opponent is airborne and watch for grabs. [4A+B]~C should work to tech airgrabs though (Meaning yes you can throw break while using barrier, even in the air), but using barrier in the air is such an awful waste when the opponent is also airborne. In CP2 Barrier is looking far more scarce, so it may turn into a good habit if you start rationing it now.

 

I think you missed the point.

 

He jumps in, and he barrier guards to avoid being AA'd...but instead of AAing him, his opponent does a throw when he lands. 

 

I don't know how to tech that. I know you CAN, but...

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I think you missed the point.

 

He jumps in, and he barrier guards to avoid being AA'd...but instead of AAing him, his opponent does a throw when he lands. 

 

I don't know how to tech that. I know you CAN, but...

Yes thats exactly what I was saying. In particular Jin's air unblockable its instant and huge. cpu pretty much instant reacts if you are in the air. So when I find myself in range of that I was barrier blocking but often he would just let me land and grab me. EVEN if I know its coming I throw tech right on time when I land and it doesnt throw break. is my only option to let go of barrier before I land? Id have to time it so that its late enough to still block his air unblockable but early enough so that I can drop the barrier and do the throw break...ahhh :(

 

But also yes that other information helps so thank you. Airk was correct in what i was trying to say.

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I guess the answer IS probably to let go of barrier right as you land;  If you haven't been AA'd by the time you're JUST about on the ground, you're very unlikely to be.

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I suppose if you suspect something like a throw upon your landing is going to happen you can target your landing at your max poke range instead of right next to them (If that makes any sense). Basically try to land yourself in an area where Rachel's 2B/5B/6B will be able to hit, but a grab will whiff because you'll be too far away from one another.

 

Another techneque is to attack on your way down if you don't see an anti-air happening. This option takes a good reaction time, but most anti-airs are kinda slow on start-up and you can get a j.A/j.B out right before your moment of landing sometimes. If they choose to anti-air late, it won't really matter because when you land from using a falling air normal, the recovery of said normal ends and you'll end up blocking it and more likely than not get a tasty punish off of it. If they don't anti-air and were going for a grab or something your j.A/j.B will hit them or be blocked and you can press 665B the moment you touch the ground to confirm into pressure or a combo.

 

Rachel's wind is an important thing in a situation like this, because j.2D and j.3D can both be used to make you hurdle toward the ground quicker, so you can make the whole process much faster. This gives your opponent that many fewer frames to get to the actives in their anti-airs, so even lightning quick anti-airs like Kokonoe's can be toppled like this. (Only Kokonoes can also gatling into more normals for some absurd reason, but you won't get clipped on their reaction to your falling air normal.)

 

When baiting anti-airs I also imagine you could do something fancy with double jump>j.2C+j.1D, but then again I'm no Rachel expert, so take all my character specific advice with a grain of salt.

 

Someone like Errol or TD could probably tell you something much better to do, all the while wording it in a much more articulate way. :/

 

I do hope this is helpful though.

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