[GGAC+R] & [GGAC] Baiken - General Discussion

[Tong]

Isn't tatami frc j.D frc AD Tatami better? :o

[kaeru]

The best place to start is near corner:

5P or 2K > c.5S > 2D > 236K (FRC) > sj.S > j.D, airdash, j.S > j.D

and collect your knockdown.

For midscreen, try to focus on meterless combos that get you knockdown so you can use that meter closer to the corner.

5P or 2K > c.5S > 2D > 236K > sj.S > j.D, then setup okizeme with a iad tatami or a kire tatami if they are too close.

Just focus on getting that done and solid in your mind before going on to anything else. You are using so much j.P unnecessarily.

Once you can get those down 100% against Sol, try this in the corner:

5P or 2K > c.5S > 2D > 236K (FRC) > sj.SD, airdash, j.SD (FRC), j.236K, land, j.SD, airdash, j.SD

Fujiwara has a video of what the dustloop looks like in the youzansen combo he posted a few pages back, i will quote it so you have a visual reference. Just ignore the Youzansen and Tatami in the beginning.

Edited January 15, 2013 by kaeru

[Tong]

There's also this 25% Fastfall corner loop:

2D 236K (FRC) sj.SD AD j.PD dash 2D sj.SD AD sj.SD

212Dmg on Jam. Recommended for Lighter Characters.

[kaeru]

That's a great suggestion Tong, something for me to practice as well !

[Murderbydeath]

Today's Gem:

"It's easy - Just do the right moves"

Cancel Dash Tatami - it's easy - just do the right move!

PS: Still can't do a BnB. That's 3% success and it's not even correct.

What are the right moves? How do I do them?

Generally what I go for from midscreen like that is:

gatling -> tatami FRC j.D FRC IAD tatami, land, j.SD AD j.SD. Sometimes if I'm being flashy or I have enough meter and it will kill, I'll FRC the last j.D into tatami and repeat the end of the combo (land, j.SD AD j.SD). Not sure if this is optimal or whatever, but it carries them to the corner and does a solid amount of damage. Hope this helps or inspires someone to tell you a better combo.

Also I think kaeru touched on this, but you don't really need to use j.P in your air combos, unless you're up against heavy characters. Conversely, versus lighter characters, it's a good idea to omit even j.S. Just depends on situation, what you're doing, and who you're up against. Anyways, I suck at Baiken, but I hope this helps.

[Murderbydeath]

I got bored and made a video for you:

Edit: I thought making that video was actually pretty fun, so here are a couple more:

25% tension, corner BnB:

50% tension, corner BnB:

Note that on heavier characters, instead of j.SD, you're going to want to use j.PSD the first time (so you'd do j.PSD AD j.SD). Also, these combos don't really work all that well on heavy characters anyway lol. On light characters, instead of doing j.SD at first, you're going to want to do j.D AD j.SD.

Edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR4Gq1m9_h8 <-- vs Light characters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg_aA1n9DWA <-- vs Heavy characters

Edited January 18, 2013 by Murderbydeath

[Murderbydeath]

I added all of my videos already linked to a playlist and I'll probably add more in the future. If anyone has ideas of videos I should make of combos or setups or anything else, let me know. Here's the playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8-k8jstr6QOUz2ZtlG60afeq1QO7hcfR

[SHINIGAMI_mkl]

you might wanna try doing a running jump after the first Tatami FRC in almost all situations, it allows for an easier relaunch with j.D FRC>air Tatami to loop and you can also get the tensionless relaunch by doing the fastfall dust that way too.

for the combo you did on Potemkin, you can run jump j.SPSD> ad> j.SPSD as well after the first Tatami FRC.

[Murderbydeath]

you might wanna try doing a running jump after the first Tatami FRC in almost all situations, it allows for an easier relaunch with j.D FRC>air Tatami to loop and you can also get the tensionless relaunch by doing the fastfall dust that way too.

for the combo you did on Potemkin, you can run jump j.SPSD> ad> j.SPSD as well after the first Tatami FRC.

Thanks, I'll try this out. I'm actually fairly new to Baiken myself, but wanted to do something to help others who are getting into Baiken as well. I've actually been messing around with fastfall combos lately, but I find them rather difficult (ones involving running back in after the fastfall and landing a 5S relaunch, anyway).

[Hellmonkey]

Thanks, I'll try this out. I'm actually fairly new to Baiken myself, but wanted to do something to help others who are getting into Baiken as well. I've actually been messing around with fastfall combos lately, but I find them rather difficult (ones involving running back in after the fastfall and landing a 5S relaunch, anyway).

If you fastfall correctly with airdash j.PD in the corner you should not need to run back in, just 5S j.D immediately after landing! The range is pretty long.

[Murderbydeath]

If you fastfall correctly with airdash j.PD in the corner you should not need to run back in, just 5S j.D immediately after landing! The range is pretty long.

I saw Maruken land TK youzansen RC tatami, land, j.SD ad j.PD (fastfall), land 5S jc j.SD ad j.S against an Eddie and I've been trying the same ever since, haha. I guess that, being a mere mortal, I should probably just end with 5S jc j.D.

[Hellmonkey]

Eddie has a particularly big hitbox that makes some combos much easier on him, and you can throw in more reps if you start with something like youzansen RC > j.tatami because there are so few hits before you're into the loop. The fastfall into j.PD 5s j.D works even when you have some earlier hits in your combo so it's a more general combo. The standard relaunch against lights uses run 2D>j.SD ad j.SD against lights after fastfall j.PD.

[Murderbydeath]

Eddie has a particularly big hitbox that makes some combos much easier on him, and you can throw in more reps if you start with something like youzansen RC > j.tatami because there are so few hits before you're into the loop. The fastfall into j.PD 5s j.D works even when you have some earlier hits in your combo so it's a more general combo. The standard relaunch against lights uses run 2D>j.SD ad j.SD against lights after fastfall j.PD.

Thanks! That clears it right on up for me and explains why I wasn't able to do it on Axl, who has a particularly skinny hitbox in the air, I believe. Also gives me more damage vs lights. Thanks a bunch.

[Star-Demon]

I'm getting tired of getting teched out of Jump P after tatami. I need some straight facts over when to sj without tatami FRC, normal jump with and without FRC, and basically understand these situations for good. I'm getting blown up by people for still not having it straight and just doing things wrong.

[Solid Gold Wall]

...training mode?

i dont mean to sound like a dick, thats just how i learned it

sadly, we're all going to have to forget that stuff when R comes out

[kaeru]

Thanks for putting those vids together Murder by death! It's always good to have something to refer people to when trying to explain stuff.

[Star-Demon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v7bUDTo02c

Lost as bad as saturday vs Biscuits but still a lot better.

Why can I never get corner throw to work?

Throw > 2k for Light characters

Throw > 2S for ????

Throw > f.5S for ??? Edited February 18, 2013 by Star-Demon

[kaeru]

for your 2K to work there you just need to dash in first and the 5S would've connected after.

Dash in 2K>5S>j.S>j.D and if possible, AD>j.S>j.D

will work on a very great majority of the cast, it's just on some heavy characters you won't be able to land the second part, and there are sometimes other variations that are better on a per character basis. This is what i do when im not sure about character specifics, though.

The Baiken guide already covers this:

Throw combos

corner

Everyone: (run) 2K 5S jc j.[P]SD ad j.[s or P]D

Lights: (run) 5S 2D jc j.SD ad j.SD

Heavies/mids: tatami>j.PSD ad j.S[P]D

Robo/pot: tatami>2D j.SPSD ad j.SPD

EDIT:

in round 2 i noticed you spent 25 meter twice in a row to FRC your tatami midscreen, only to do j.P immediately after. This is something you need to stop doing as mentioned in previous videos. If you want to spend meter for extra damage, don't start with j.P in the air.

in general, you can do

(in order of optimization)

236K FRC, j.SD

236K FRC, j.SPSD (if it works on the character you are facing)

236K FRC, j.SD FRC airdash j.SD

236K FRC, j.SD FRC corner carry airdash 236K (if it works on the character you are facing)

Also.. in this case, you are fighting FAUST who you don't even need to do any of that against. Mid screen the best thing you can do against Faust is just XX>c.5S>2D>j.D for great damage and Oki meterless. You can even FRC that j.D and get some corner carry but it's a bit tricky.

EDIT2:

I also noticed a few kire tatami attempts that didnt come out properly, don't give up and keep practicing it ! You'll get it soon.

Edited February 18, 2013 by kaeru

[SHINIGAMI_mkl]

Against Faust you won't be able to do: corner throw>run>2K>5S at all because of his weird hitbox/float, I haven't tried if I can delay the 5S for it to hit, but I assume thats not possible. As mentioned by kaeru, you should tatami immediatly after a corner throw for tentionless against him, or throw>5H>Tatami(FRC)>sj.SD>ad j.SD for 25%, it has good damage plus knockdown.

After watching the whole video I say you have to capitalize on your hits and abare or whatever, you landed some 5H and did not continue to anything, you should tatami after those or even you could've supered after it if you like that (hit confirm!). Another is you got a j.K but could'nt continue as well, you shoud immediatly jump cancle forwards to j.PSD or whatever you like and you could've looped as you were in the corner, sometimes you can even do: j.K>land>2D>jc>j.SPSD>...etc against mids/heavies like Pot/Rob/not sure about Faust but I assume you can. Same goes to a Kabari>2D you didn't continue where you could by jump cancle into j.S>...etc. always know when to switch from pressuring/poking into comboing.

Edited February 20, 2013 by SHINIGAMI_mkl

[kaeru]

I rarely spend meter on my corner throw combos, but i definitely want to give that one you mentioned a try, Shinigami. 5HS>Tatami FRC sounds awesome. Must try that next time i get the chance in a match!

[Hellmonkey]

Due to the proration on throw, you don't want to spend tension on the corner throw combo unless it will kill them generally. Having a corner knockdown with tension is much stronger than not having any.

Use one of these combos for most mids/lights including Faust. For Faust you can throw j.K instead of j.S to make it hit easier if needed because j.SD can whiff at a bad angle.

Throw -> run 5s > 2d > j.SD ad j.SD

Throw -> tatami > sj.P (K or S) D ad j.SD

[Star-Demon]

Thanks - I've started to switch to j.SD off FRC tatami and it's better damage. I still can't SJ cancel after tatami FRC or not. No clue how it's physically done.

I guess for now I should just use j.PSD for big and heavy characters without FRC or for pickups from a j.K -> land...

I'm switching now I kire tatami - before I would 41236956 because it's easier from blocking, but I've been trying to notice that little gap I feel when it works, and that's the 56 part that makes it work - So I'm trying to do 236956 now.

For TK YZS, I found out you have to hold 9 very briefly. I haven't gotten to use it in match very well (also people have been blocking high lately) but off any JCable move I can do it like 70-80%

Yeah hit confirming huge problem right now. I could have at least taken a match from biscuits last week if I wasn't so nervous and defensive. ( I was frigging done with myself by the time I sat down anyway...)

I have a plan for working on hit confirming, even though certain people are telling me there's no such thing.

I'm not going ot be free to biscuits next time, though. Nope. Imma figure his shit out and even if I get crushed 0-2 again he's getting embarrassed. >:D

Edited February 22, 2013 by Star-Demon

[Solid Gold Wall]

well tatami isn't jump cancelable anyway, so it's just a matter of super jumping as soon as the move is done / frc'd.

i do that corner throw > 5h > tatami frc thing all the time, but only because i still have difficulty consistently doing throw > tatami. just gotta keep at it i guess

[Hellmonkey]

It might help your timing to tap the button for kick quickly because you get one input for pressing it down and another for letting go because specials can be negative-edged. If you can make it ~2 frames between pressing and releasing K this significantly increases the window for linking your mat.

[Solid Gold Wall]

that's solid advice man, thanks.