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Star-Demon

[GGAC+R] & [GGAC] Baiken - General Discussion

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Because starting from scratch is a pain in the ass.

this game has so many little little things that you just need to know in order to handle things. On one hand, if you get a major retrofit like we are, people like me gt totally screwed because we have to learn every situation, every normal, every other character's junk over again so we don't wander around getting bodied because someone stupid got to stay stupid.

I'm gonna have to throw everything out I know about the game, and I'd say it's not much in the grand scheme of things, but goddamn I spent a good amount of mornings at 8AM at my anime club learning how the play this game so I could at least get one win at Next Level and not go home thinking I wasted 70 bucks. I got trashed and embarrassed so many times over the last two years in BB that at least getting two wins in GG losers was enough to make me feel like I should continue playing.

Now, come summer, I'm going to be netplaying a brand new game, with characters I just have to forget about how they play, and learn from scratch like new people, and even lose to people who are going to just mash heavy slash, and endure the complete embarrassment and humiliation in front of everyone that goes with it.

I wanted to go in kicking their asses, at least for the few weeks. Now I'm back to "what's a button?" level of knowledge and skill. What little success I actually got out of this game compared to my complete failure in BB after two years is trashed.

So yes, I mad.

Edited by Star-Demon

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Because starting from scratch is a pain in the ass.

this game has so many little little things that you just need to know in order to handle things. On one hand, if you get a major retrofit like we are, people like me gt totally screwed because we have to learn every situation, every normal, every other character's junk over again so we don't wander around getting bodied because someone stupid got to stay stupid.

I'm gonna have to throw everything out I know about the game, and I'd say it's not much in the grand scheme of things, but goddamn I spent a good amount of mornings at 8AM at my anime club learning how the play this game so I could at least get one win at Next Level and not go home thinking I wasted 70 bucks. I got trashed and embarrassed so many times over the last two years in BB that at least getting two wins in GG losers was enough to make me feel like I should continue playing.

Now, come summer, I'm going to be netplaying a brand new game, with characters I just have to forget about how they play, and learn from scratch like new people, and even lose to people who are going to just mash heavy slash, and endure the complete embarrassment and humiliation in front of everyone that goes with it.

I wanted to go in kicking their asses, at least for the few weeks. Now I'm back to "what's a button?" level of knowledge and skill. What little success I actually got out of this game compared to my complete failure in BB after two years is trashed.

So yes, I mad.

You're proabably better off than that, it's just frustrating, but it looks as if Baiken will still be strong.

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You're proabably better off than that, it's just frustrating, but it looks as if Baiken will still be strong.

I hope you are right, but since hearing about this game, my heart sank knowing that my time is probably up and it's time to go home.

*sigh* So much for trying to be positive. Time to meditate or something.

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I hope you are right, but since hearing about this game, my heart sank knowing that my time is probably up and it's time to go home.

*sigh* So much for trying to be positive. Time to meditate or something.

Don't worry too much, we'll probably be getting quite a few new guys, so you should still be ahead of the curve. Plus Baiken was "passively" buffed by all the damage nerfs.

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You definitely won't need to throw out all you know, or anything close to that. I mean, there's still a significant amount of #Reload stuff that's still valid in AC, and looks like it will still be valid in the new version. Combos are changing, and other moves are being tweaked, but you'll still be playing Baiken. A different version of her, sure, but not an entirely different character.

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youshijin is super fast to come out, looks like a guaranteed anti air but not comboable even with RC the guy playing didn't seem to be able to combo.

- This was one of the big questions, I wonder if that was off a CH or normal hit though.

This is not about Youshijin but about the "Wheel Counter" 214P.

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Well, she's got a big nerf on her combos, mainly because of the "bad" 2nd hit on Tatami. This means distance specific combos, and therefore, harder combos.

No more midscreen -> corner carry combos might severely impact on her rewards off midscreen confirms.

I dont play GG much, but I'd say she got nerfed overall.

God dammit.

Regarding the new Tatami-

Consider first how the Tatami works in the game right now. Air and ground have different properties, ground one launches only in the beginning of the move while the air one corner bounces in the beginning of the move. The air one causes wall bounce on counter hit and both air and ground tatamis do very little when they hit late in active frames.

This is all really complicated stuff and it creates a lot of scenarios in game. I see the new tatami as a huge improvement! This second hit that causes knockdown and the possible changes to the effects of the first hit together might finally put some order into Tatami use. Perhaps the new tatami has to be used in a way that the second hit doesn't land to get a launch and bounce, this seems fairly easy considering you can FRC it or if you're going to use it in the air while they are above you (this is how we ALREADY use tatami!). The difference is when it doesn't work or cannot work; it will create a knockdown and maybe even a potential followup OTG. This is SOOO much better then what we have right now in those situations.

I'm really excited to explore all of this in the new game !!

EDIT: did you guys see the new yoshijin in the promo video? it launches on non counter hit and remains untechable at least until the first hit of the tatami (didnt black beat). We might finally have a simple tensionless combo that is easy to do even against light characters !! It's going to be so great to not need such tight timing for May and Bridget.

Edited by kaeru

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(...) (tatami wasn't really hit with straight nerfs)

Great post, and doesn't even mention that we might have more frame advantage after stuff like meaty ground tatami. I'm extremely curious about the properties of that second hit if you do time it meaty.

I can already think of why the new ground tatami could be great for okizeme depending on the timing between the two hits. You could have the first hit of tatami land on them right before they wake up, and FRC -> low or overhead like she already has, or let it finish to punish any mashing or jumping, and possibly even a grounded hit against backdashes! There is a lot of potential here that people are missing I feel, especially in combination with the counters and options she already has. This is assuming the move isn't horrible minus frames on the second hit, but we have to wait and see.

Edited by Hellmonkey

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For the suzuran changes does that mean she can guard cancel if without block on suzuran? If so where in the animation, that could be really cool.

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That is correct, however the timing to do the guard cancel without blocking is only at the very end of the animation. Also suzuran is reported so far to have increased recovery.

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There is no way to know for sure until we see it. Don't be disappointed if it's just more vulnerability at the end.

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hmmm interesting, you could get potentially really far pretty safe travel with suzuran-k counter-frc, and depending on how early H counter is in the air you could time suzuran so you hit the range they can low you and low crush with H count, though that's not nearly as safe.

Edited by tolore

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hmmm interesting, you could get potentially really far pretty safe travel with suzuran-k counter-frc, and depending on how early H counter is suzuran so you hit the range they can low you and low crush with H count, though that's not nearly as safe.

now that's very creative !

It will definitely be exciting to see it happen when we can finally get some footage of the game.

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Yes. Either you'll throw them or get a 6K if they're out of your throw range.

and 6K is anti-throw. That's a pretty good one. I'll have to practice that.

Pushing two buttons at once is hard for us older folks. Ask Spirit Juice. :P

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Hello all, new user here, but old player.

I've know the forum for sometime but as I was kind of away from the game I never posted anything. Just today it ocurred to me to post something about the new game.

What do the other Bailen players think of the changes? The new counter seen very nice, some anti-air, even if you can't combo from it. And such a nicely draw move was wasted being Ex only IMHO =P Dunno about the Youshijin being just special now, it might lead up to new combos if the properties change (jungle maybe?).

What is bugging me to hell is the new tatami. It has been what now, the third time they have changed the move? Now it's two hits knockdown? So, basicaly, the main source of combos for baiken, the launch from tatami, is gone? Or can you still launch by jc on the first hit? Some say it only knocks down on aerial...dunno if it's true. Removing one of the main combo sources seens like a big nerf to me, even with the other modifications. Hope I'm wrong in these assumptions.

What is your take on it?

Cheers!

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Well, the consensus is that Baiken will benefit from metagame changes as other characters are changing, and having a few extra tools like an AA that isn't a baitable and evadable guard cancel - a "DP" will also be nice.

However, we just don't know right now. The game is still in testing and revision, and until that settles itself and until people actually start playing the game, we just won't know the technology or be able to judge. We won't even know what we're dealing with until months after it gets released. It could be Baiken will just be unable to compete because her good matchups just have the tools, now, and her damage isn't consistant. Maybe she'll be S -tier. We don't know.

Baiken isn't one of those "fundamentally basic" characters I keep hearing about and told to pick up by vets. She has her own strengths and we will need to see them in action, and it'll probably take a little while to see what's what in the new version. You can't just say "Good normals that are fast and big with good hitboxes" and call it a day.

My take on it is, "I can't do anything for a while - focus on game fundamentals and techniques for defense."

Unfortunately I don't have the means to effectively practice due to technical problems.

Hope this helps.

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First location test

Tatami Gaeshi knocks the opponent away

- sounds like we cannot combo with this midscreen like before. (-Hellmonkey)

j.D FRC changed

- not sure how they adjusted it.(-Hellmonkey)

Suzuran's (63214K) recovery time seems longer

- this must be because she can guard cancel now(-Hellmonkey)

214p (wheel counter) is super fast to come out, looks like a guaranteed anti air but not comboable even with RC the guy playing didn't seem to be able to combo.

- they changed youshijin to a command normal to make her less dependent on comboing from counters.(-Hellmonkey)

Ground tatami can wallbounce if close enough from the corner and the tatami is done far enough from the opponent so that the 2nd knockdown hit doesn't hit. You can then pick up with far S.

- Sounds like she will still have corner combos with tatami, and aiming for that far tatami was already in her game plan (like going for iad j.D fastfall combos).(-Hellmonkey)

On air version it knocks down in a forward and down away unless a wall is close : it wallbounces in that case.

- Sounds like she loses midscreen tatami iad j.SD and instead just gets a knockdown.(-Hellmonkey)

Second location test

2HS

Now sucks the opponent in on air hit.

Untechable time increased from 14f to 26f.

c. S

Startup decreased from 9f to 8f.

5HS

Startup decreased from 10f to 9f.

jK

Untechable time from a cround hit is now 25F (same as for air hit)

j HS (pylon sword)

The float after a air hit is now closer 空中ヒット時の 浮き が低くなりました。

Untechable time increased from 18f to 20f.

jD

Damage decreased from 50 f to 42 f.

Untechable time decreased from 45 f to 35 f.

6P

Options on hit/block increased.

Now gattles to 6K.

Guard balance decreased from 8+7 to 4+4.

Untechable time for the second hit is now 20f.

6HS

Guard meter decrease on hit reduced from -15 to -6.

Youshijin

Input is now 623P and is a normal special move that cannot be used from block.

No inv.frames.

Hitbox in front of her made a little bit bigger.

Doesn’t shoot them as high up in the air on hit as before.

Recovery time increased from 22f to 25f.

Guard meter decrease on hit increased from -7 to -12.

Lvl3 move on hit and block.

Tatami

Hit properties have gone from normal down to wall bounce.

Air Tatami

The hitbox in front the tatami has gotten bigger on the part when the air tatami gets released.

Sakura

Inv. frames have been removed

Startup decreased from 17f to 10f.

Upper body inv has been removed.

Active frames reduced from 2f to 1f

Air hit launches the opponent vertically.

Air hit properties changed from “normal down” to “wall slam”

Ouren

Movement speed slightly reduced.

Inv.frames moved from f1-7 to f14-26.

FRC added (frc point f4-6)

Now pulls opponent torward you on hit and guard.

Spinny Wheel counter (斬凶輅)

New move.

Suzuran

You can use guard cancels without blocking moves between f 9 – 24.

Kabari

Air hit properties: pulls the opponent torwards you and results in a slide state down.

Startup of attack decreased from 21f to 20f

Recovery on hit and guard increased by 1f

Untechable time increased from 24f to 36f.

Added a 80% prorate.

Guard balance decreased from 6 to 3

Tripple Tatami

New move.

Baku

Now -3 on block (instead o +1)

Baku – GETSU

Damage proration on combo afterwards changed from 10 % to 30 %.

It seems like they've increased her ability to abare off many hits with the boosts in untech time across so many moves, all while reducing her overall combo length with the j.D untech time nerf. I expect her combos will become more diverse and a bit shorter and much more often. I'm very excited to tinker will all this new stuff !

NOTE: I realize some of the explanations are ambiguous. PLEASE UNDERSTAND, until the actual location test this weekend, it's going to be very difficult to clarify certain things.. like the change to Tatami for example.

Edited by Hellmonkey

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