Sol vs Ky

[Spirit Juice]

Matchup Statistics:

Openers:

Okizeme:

Punishes:

Counters:

Anti airing:

Zoning:

Their game plan:

Strategy:

Char specific details:

-- Member Submitted Info Section (if valid).

[Beowulf]

It's not that I'm having a hard time With Ky, but he's the one that makes me defend more than anything ! And for a Sol player I guess that could be annoying...

Anyway, I wanted to help these matchup threads that are not filled at all, so that would be easier to understand Sol's techniques such as okizeme openers etc...

Well I'm not that experienced, so my advices are not to take seriously...

Anyway here it is :

0)Begining the Match:

Basically you could start fith a f.S safely, as it will just stop any of his moves. Although it seems Ky's 5+P could counter it, he'll mostly just backdash or instant air backdash in order to set up his low zoning strategy !

It seems though that if you let the special intro happen Ky will have a huge advantage at the start because they are further away than normal.

Didn't experienced it myself though...

I)Standard state :

1)Avoiding Ky's balls

This said, here comes the hard part, when Ky is usually far from you and trying to hit you or make you block with his coconuts , in order to rush and start his mixups to conclude in a knock down and a long and terrible okizeme fight...

To avoid this, the best is to FD rush to reduce the gap between the characters. But always be sure to be at a 5+HS distance from him on the ground when you stop, as his 236+K comes out fast and is a low attack or his f.S poke is safe for him when he blocks...

Also try to avoid his stun edges but be careful and keep an eye on his tension.

He can "easily" FRC it and then :

- Dash and pressure if you blocked

- Anti-Air with 2+HS if you instant-air-dashed

- Greed sever or 236+K you if you 2+D 'ed it

What to do

--> Avoid it, but don't rush toward him if he has the tension.

--> Slashback it, as it will add to your tension and set you free from any blocking state or coming pressure.(Beware of the timing though, because... if missed -> Counter hit combo oO)

--> Instant block-it and VV on reaction if he tries to approach from too close. (note : your VV beats his f.S)

--> If he's "near" (that means a HS or a bit more, or less distance ) you go for a grand viper clean hit if possible, as it has a tension free 200 dmg combo (or so) on Ky with a miracle knockdown for YOU !

2) Getting close

Now that you can avoid his lighting balls, just do your best not to rush in recklessly or do stand alone gun flames, VV, GV, or any specials as Ky players are waiting for these opportunities. (Beware at his force break stun edge if you rush in !)

a)Aerial Game : Play as the snake !

Sol means "ground" in french ! Remeber that !

Ky controls better the air than you, as his j.K/ j.S/j.HS cover a greater range than yours, so don't just jump in. Prefer FD dashing.

Note : Ky players tend to grab a lot in the air too !

If he's in the air and not you then you're "lucky" !

- Your 5+K AA, and heavenly VV, will help you taking him to the ground ! Just don't try to grab him in the air, it's usually bad for you. For the 5+K, be sure to be out of his j.HS range or quickly go behind before he lands a hit, otherwise you'll take a counter and a bad knock down at the end...

Note : if you feel so, you can also 6+P his j.HS as it will whiff and give you a counter hit.

If it's the contrary then you're "reckless"

- Your j.S and j.HS beats his 6+P when you IAD, but that's not good enough, because he can 2+HS you or Viper trust. But then again that means you recklessly rushed in... Too bad for you ! But if you felt the Ky to be "ready to AA Sol" from where you where, just stop what you were doing and VV his damn AA !! That's for you Ky !... Or just FD and manage to get out from his pressing once on the ground...

good to remember :

--> You Ground, Him Air = GOOD !

--> You Air, Him ground = BAD ! Only jump if his in a blocking state (after a ball or defending recklessly)

b)HS range : Point of no return

Right. This is the line, once crossed, you can't step back anymore !

What is this distance about ? simple : go to training mode, do one step back (not back dash). There you are. You got it ? Ok that's the limit. Once you get closer, it means you decided to do something.

Basically, you'll want to be constantly at that distance from him, and wait a movement to enter in action !

Don't misunderstand. It's not a safety zone, as his f.S can reach you ! He can also combo into 236+K for a free knock down !

So what's the point ?

1) Well it's in the reach of your 5+HS (hence the name). If you get a counter hit with this use the combo :

-> 5+HS->IAD->j.S,j.HS->c.S,5+HS, grand viper-> sidewinder

-> 5+HS->IAD->j.S,j.HS->c.S,D for a safe knock down (as the bandit revolver won't connect anyway)

-> 5+HS->IAD->j.S,j.HS->c.S,6+P,gun flame FRC-> combo (if close to wall)

Note : These combo will work on counter hits ONLY. it's dangerous to IAD if it is not a CH, because Ky could Vapor trust you on reaction.

2) It's his f.S range ? So what ? you get hit ? You duck !

- He can only combo his f.S into 236+K or a coconut. So if he does you block low and wait.

From this distance you are quite sure to just defend by reflex his 236+K if his f.S hits you. in that case do a back dash right after the low hit. Normally, the second hit should connect and your back dash would become an instant block.

->Then run and wild throw him.

if he happens to know/have the tension to FRC his 1st hit :

-> 70% He'll go for a grab. But your back dash will occur and you will have the time to react properly.

-> 25% He'll Greed saver. But then again your back dash will occur and you'll defend by reflex to punish him !

-> 5% He'll do random stuff. Your back dash will occur, just be sure you can avoid being stupidly caught by his random move ^^

if he happens to have the tension to RC his 2nd hit :

-> You'll be free by that time as his 2nd hit will be instant blocked just act accordingly...

- If he tries a greed saver after his f.S, you won't get hit at all if you duck, so punish him well just as you want !

3) Coconut ?

- You Grand viper on reaction ! The distance is so that he won't be able to FRC it !

4) Cons...

- It's in the reach of stand alone greed saver, even if you duck. But you can VV on reaction (be quick, or just get up ^^)

- It's in the reach of his 236+K, and it will lead to a free knock down at this distance... Well it covers a long range so it doesn't change anything. But from this distance you could be abe to VV or 1frame jump on reaction...

- Charge stun edge Force break trap... That's for you if you GV on reaction too early...

- It's not too far from Ky's best distance (1 step indeed !). If you are at the "beginning" distance, everything said above is to forget ! One frame, and all Ky's set-ups would work : f.S and 236+K will fully connect (no gard here !) and all your reflex won't be enough...

good to remember :

- Please respect the distance as well as you can ! 1 step too close and it's all over !

- Leads to a lot of traps for Ky if he "belives he's at his good distance"

- Better being "one step before the limit" than "one step behind"

II)Face to face part 1 : Sol's move

You managed to lend a hit on the ground. What next ?

1) What Sol does the best :

Pressure ! don't let him get away ! After all you did to get close to him it would be terrible if he manages to escape ! So go for delayed moves (2+P, 2+K, c.S etc...). Just do everything to stay at a lesser distance than the HS range, then go for a throw, a dust or a Gun flame FRC to pursue pressure...

2)!!WARNING!!

In any way NEVER, I said NEVER insist pressure if :

- Your last normal hit made you cross the HS limit (your are further than a 5+HS hit).

- You want to end pressure with a Bandit bringer/Grand viper/Riot stomp !

In fact the HS limit is enough space for Ky to EXPLOSE you. Why ?

- His f.S stops you if you try to rush pressure again.

- His Vapor trust stops any IAD or Bandit revolver coming from this distance (he has enough time between to see them coming)

- His Greed Saver will save Him from any Gun flame you used, FRC or not, as when you FRC, you usually dash in to pressure more...

good to remember :

- The distance from Ky must be under the 5+HS distance when pressuring

--> If you get further, play it safe with a backdash and wait for him to move, or gun flame feint/FRC but dont move and wait for a reaction.

- 2+D goes under Ky's dead angle !

--> Avoid it with 2+D and counter as his DA recovery will take longer than your 2+D recovery.

- People usually DA on an odd number attack (rather than an even number) as you usually use even number sequences (2+K, c.s ; f.S, 5+HS ; 5+P, 2+P ; etc...)

--> Use your sweep at the right time !

That concludes for the "moving accordingly against Ky" part.

Here are some miscs :

- Sol's 2+D completely avoids Ky's Vapor Trust

-> But never end a string, or throw out 2+D, as Ky can Greed Saver it easily

- Riot stomp is punished by... 6+P, 2+HS, Vapor trust and 236+K ON REACTION.

-> So just don't use it...

- Your VV beats his f.S

-> You're inhuman if you can do this on reaction !

- j.HS beats his 2+HS IF you are above his head when you hit.

-> OTHERWISE at best each get hit, but you are at a counter Hit state in the air and he is FREE... You know what it means right ^^

- Grand Viper goes below any coconuts, even his special.

->But far Grand Viper can be stopped by Ky with a simple "2+S, 236+K" and get a free knock down out of it....

--> Anyway be cool and don't get heated up or hypnotized by your enemy !! And more than anything NEVER get knocked down !!

Well that's all for the "main first part" I guess, as I'll try to be more precise later on :

- Reliable Okizeme

- Effective combo (sidewinder, but HOW ?)

- Waking up from a bad dream (WHAT ?! Ky put me down ? No waaay !!)

- How to use tension -> Dragon install set-ups (well that's a joke I guess...)

EDIT : I added the "5+HS distance" part

[VR-Raiden]

If the Ky player decides to do 6P > 6H in a block string, the 6H can be GV'd on reaction pretty easily. Also, reversal GV goes right under his charge stun edge as oki, but just be careful if they are aware of it/become aware of it. If they think you're going to reversal GV, and you don't, they might try jumping in with air attacks, or air dashing in on you as you block CSE. Sometimes you can get a free VV/other anti-air if you IB the hits of CSE if he tries this. The other option the Ky player has is staying on the ground to block/hit you out of it. But if he's baiting and you don't do it, he loses his pressure I guess.

[Beowulf]

III)Okizeme

This is a non exhaustive recollection of all his set-ups on wake up. the difference is that some may not work on Ky, whiff or more likely be vapor trusted.

1) The fear of the dragon

Before doing ANY okizeme, be sure your opponent will NOT Viper trust on reversal. If he does, make him regret his act !

What you should know about VT reversal :

1) It has now a FRC point in AC. Ky can effectively escape from okizeme with this, as it doesn't need to hit in order to FRC. This is quite the problem for setting okizeme ! If he sees he has enough tension, he'll just go for it and escape useless pressure on wake up. Also I'm not sure of it, but I don't think Vapor trust is auto air installed. Thus once in the air, Ky has few issues and will more likely FD in the air.

2) Sol's VV (HS or S) clashes and hits on vapor trust reversal. Sometimes it just clashes if done too early though. I recomand not using this as it has few issues. but if you are creative you can still do funny things. As ky doesn't have aerial specials except VT, he won't have anything else to do after the clash. So that's were you can win a combo :

-> Moves only clash (usually the VV HS) combo into sidewinder loop if at good height, or Air bandit revolver(FRC) and become creative !

-> First move clashes and the second hits. It's a counter hit !! use this one wisely if you are near a corner !

-> Two hits reach Ky (usually the VV S). Just 214+K for the knock down and start a new okizeme (better this time ^^)

3) Sol's 2+D Whiffs under VT ! So if you sense it coming just sweep under it and punish.

4)Your backdash is weak ! Don't try to avoid VT on reversal with that or you'll get hit !

5)Gun flame, if done too late or/and too close may be avoided and/or punished by VT. like in 3) It's random, but better play it safe with at least a FRC behind.

6 And yes, if you ask... Dragon install DOES avoid VT on reversal. Do what you want with that...

Good to remember :

- Viper Trust is Ky's best/safest reversal, so he'll definitively use it at least once in a knock down.

- If you see it coming use 2+D or just block it.

- Ky is defenseless after his VT->HS. So combo right after, or air grab him for the knock down.

- Once FRC, Ky can still use his attacks so AA him well and watch out for his (charged)Stun edges (as he can FRC them to, but that would make a lot of tension used...)

[Beowulf]

2)Okizeme install !

Alright so the little Ky stopped being reckless after some VT punished ? Then it's time for okizemes. Just roll twice the mouse's wheel button and shout "okizeme instaaall !" to begin...

a) Basic Okizeme : girlfriend !

An easy starter, but the most common for Sol. After knock down do a Gun flame so that it hits on wake up. You must time it correctly so that it won't hit before he wakes up (otherwise it'll be an OTG hit that would just help him recover safely...)

If you are at a correct distance (5+HS again ^^) you won't have to FRC it, but it's safer to do it anyway if you have the meter.

1) Once it hits (usually blocked) you will have frame advantage, as you can't slashback on wake up. Use this to pressure him more. You can go for immediate throws or dusts as the player will usually wait and defend. Be careful though not to wild throw to early, as Ky needs to be recovered from the gun flame first.

2) Ky can't VT this okizeme as he will usually get hit by the gun flame. (See above for warning)

3) Ky can't back-dash this okizeme on reversal.

4) If you gun flame without FRC be careful when you (Air)dash, as some Ky just mash VT after a blocking sequence.

5) If he has enough tension, Ky can dead angle on the gun flame hit if he sees you rushing. A quick 2+D avoiding, for a severe punishment !

good to remember :

- Sol's safest okizeme, but leads you into a blocked pressure sequence.

- You can't go for a combo after that as the GF WILL be blocked.

b) Whiffing okizeme : VT traps

From now on, nothing guarantees you from a reversal VT, as Sol doesn't have any other meaty that could stop it.

So you must bait it !

1)The best moment to bait a VT reversal is :

- Ky has no burst. Nothing to stop you if you chain a combo, he won't aford getting risky pressure from you !

- Ky is annoyed ! Getting 3 consecutive knock downs is anoying for Ky ! He'll try to end this as soon as possible !

- Ky is low on life. If it's the final round and he is low on life, he may not keep his calm !

2)How to bait it ?

One/all of the condition(s) above is/are correct ? Then...

- Don't use gun flame okizeme as he will just block it.

- If Ky is far from you... Delay your rushing so that he has enough time to VT, but make it so that he won't do anything else (2+D, 2+K, whatever...). Then just FD stop in front of him and... Punish ! If he didn't move, quickly 5+K and pressure. No 2+P or 2+K here because his 2+K will be faster (as he's already crouching).

- If Ky is near you... Bait with a whiffed 5+K, 5+S, 5+HS or 6+P and guard low. Beware not doing it too late, nor guarding too early !

- If Ky is close... Bait with an early j.HS above him and FD it only when the VT comes out. If you do it too early, Ky will see this coming and take the advantage. If you don't FD in the air... you'll get hit by VT. In order not to get grabbed on the ground if he doesn't VT, use j.P.

- If you are in front of Ky... The nice guy pose (6+taunt) (or if you have enough time a simple taunt, but make sure you can cancel it when he wakes up) ! Surprised or/and annoyed, he'll just hit you in any mean as he thinks you are defensless ! In that case VV or dragon install dodge on reaction ! That's kinda dumb and not to do in a serious fight, but hey... It's just a matchup thread here ! Not a guide ! So feel free to have fun sometimes ^^

good to remember :

- After a few knock downs, Ky will VT on reaction.

-> Bait him !

- After 2 gun flame okizeme it is good to do one without, as some Ky will consider this as an opportunity to VT.

-> Bait it !

- Don't get too close if you bait on the ground, as he can catch you with "6/4+HS". The best distance is a two "5+P" poke distance (go to training mode, get as near as you can and press twice 5+P)

- VT is an AA move.

-> FD it in the air !

c) Aerial okizeme : j.HS !

You know he won't VT because you already baited him or because he has burst "just in case" ? Then go for the j.HS mix up.

Basically you must be close to him when down and do an early j.HS to simulate an overhead. There are 2 scales for delaying it :

1) Really Early (RE) j.HS

You jump and immediately press HS. He should be about his maximum height when the end of the move is done. What it does :

- The hits always whiff.

- You are unable to 2ble jump (as j.HS is not a JC move)

- You are free to execute any move in the air (j.P, j.K, j.S, j.HS, Air BR, VV)

- You are able to Air dash !

You can then mix up with the followings :

Best if Ky cornered, but can work mid stage if the air dash hits his head (rare because he usually will crouch)

- Make him believe you'll land, then Air dash -> j.S,j.HS->c.S,5+HS, grand viper-> sidewinder loop <overhead>

- Make him believe you'll land, then Air dash -> j.D, sidewinder loop <overhead>

- Make him believe you'll Air Dash, then land -> Wild throw-> combo <catch>

- Make him believe you'll Air Dash, then land -> 2+K,c.D,5+HS, grand viper-> sidewinder loop <low hit>

- Make him believe you'll Air Dash, then land -> 2+D,Bandit Revolver->RC->j.D->Jump cancel->j.S, sidewinder loop <low hit>

- Make him believe you'll Air Dash, then land -> 5+D -> (Impossible)Dust combo <overhead>

Note : You can always bait a VT with this as you can FD block after the RE j.HS

2) Early Delayed (ED) j.HS

Same as above, only you delay the HS a bit after jumping. The difference is that this time the j.HS will hit Ky ! For it to be effective, you must train a lot, as the timing is really strict. It's not a normal j.HS as only 1 Hit (the second) should connect. The key is to make it so that the end of the animation will occur exactly when you reach Ky's head. What it does :

- The first hit whiffs but the second hits the target if he stands up (will whiff if he crouches).

- You are unable to jump cancel or execute a move in the air (you'll be on the ground by that time).

- You are able to link it into c.S on the ground.

- You are able to Air dash after the hit !

- If done too late the 2 hits will connect and/or you won't be able to air-dash.

You can then mix up with the followings :

Best if Ky cornered, but can work mid stage as the last hit reaches and the air dash should be low enough.

- The hit isn't blocked, then land -> c.S,5+HS, grand viper-> sidewinder loop <normal combo>

- The hit isn't blocked, then land -> c.S,5+HS, 2+D <get a knock down>

- The hit isn't blocked, then Air Dash -> it becomes a RE j.HS, see combos above.

- The hit is blocked, then -> it becomes a RE j.HS, see combos above.

Note : This time you can't avoid reversal VT and take a counter hit in that case...

good to remember :

- Although more difficult, the ED j.HS is more rewarding as it is a RE j.HS with a hit and a mi(n)d game okizeme.

-> Alternate between them for bait.

- The hit in ED j.HS can only be connected to 5+K or c.S on the ground.

-> Be careful for VT in between if you Air dash.

d) Other Okizeme

I don't really use any other but some may work depending on mood and distance :

1) j.HS cross-up

Works at mid stage. Jump over ky when down, and back-dash j.HS when he gets up.

-> If done correctly you should connect 2 hits and be on the ground just in front of him for a c.S link combo.

-> Really random, I advice you to use it as few as possible.

2) Dust on wake-up

Just as it says... Be sure to be at the "two 5+P" distance and do it such as it will hit on wake up.

-> Can be easily blocked.

-> Do it safe with a 50% tension RC if it misses.

3) Miscs

Well if you have any else, I'll post them ^^

Conclusion on Okizeme :

- Try to mix as much as possible.

- If not confident, use the gun flame okizeme. It's the safest.

- Ky's wake up options are the followings : Block, Backdash, vapor trust (S or HS), 1 frame jump, Ride the lightening (overdrive)

- Bait VT at least once, and beware of his overdrive "Ride the lightening". If you want to 2+D it, you get hit !

[Beowulf]

IV) Combos

Just a list of tensionless combos that work on Ky.

All figures are VS Ky with guard bar to 0 and life bar to 128 (full)

I'll adopt these notations :

jC = jump cancel

nj. = neutral jump

j. = forward jumping

bj = backward jump

DJ = double jump

Side Winder(236+HS) <SW> = Of course it's a clean hit so don't ask

(Air) Bandit Revolver <(A)BR)> = (1) is for the 1st hit. (2) is for the 2nd hit.

Bandit Bringer (236+[K])<BB>

Wilde Throw (236+K)<WT>

Volcanic Viper (623+S/HS) <VVS/HS> = Of course finish it with 214+K if no RC comes after.

Grand Viper (214+S) <GV> = Mash as fast as you can in order to have the last hit as a clean hit !

0) To start well, know your sidewinders well !

Most of Sol's powerful combo have sidewinders in it. Indeed on clean hit it opens to a lot of damages !

To have a clean hit on Ky, you must be close and hit him around about his neck.

A "good" sidewinder loop always ends with a BR, as the second hit always gives you a knock down.

Sometimes it's good to know when to stop. 4 SW in a combo is more than enough if you are sure the next 2 won't kill him. After the 5th, BR(2) won't hit/reach him. So be careful !

The loops really depend on where you are on the field. So act accordingly as each situations are different.

Use j.S, SW in the air if Ky is below you.

Use j.HS, SW in the air if Ky is at your level/above you.

Use j.D, SW in the air ONLY if you did a dashing jump for maximum damage.

Edit : I took off the "sidewinder followings" as it is a bit off topic. I suggest you to just train and see what combo is best and how you should continue/end them.

For more examples, just look at some Sol combo video, or fights, and try to copy/improve the combos.

good to remember :

- Ky's clean hit is around about his neck.

- 4 SW/10 hit SW loop is the limit if you want a safe knock down.

- j.D, SW doesn't work on Ky in the middle of a SW loop as it won't reach/connect.

- You should definitively know at least a 12 hit Side Winder loop !

1) Dust combos

Sol's best overhead and naturally the best way to deal good damages "easily".

Just remember to maintain "9" or "7" (depending on your position) during the homing jump (usually during the two j.D)

a) Basic ones

5+D->j.D,j.D,j.S,j.K,j.S,j.K,j.S->jC->j.D, VVS+214+K

Hits : 13

Dmg : 161

Knock down = Depends on where you are... Ky can/may recover from this one.

- Basic dust combo, easy to do. If you want to have a sure effective combo, use it !

If you want a knock down, prefer this one :

5+D->j.D,j.D,j.S,j.K,j.S,j.K->jC->j.D, VVS+214+K

Hits : 12

Dmg : 159

Knock down = Yes, if VV's 214+K hits.

- The same with a "j.S" less. Should work anywhere, but if you are too high after the last j.K, the j.D will not connect.

b) Impossible dusts (ID)

Sol's IDs are based on sidewinder loops. I suggest you to go above and see Ky's specific sidewinder loop features before trying these, as they only are a starter for these loops...

5+D->SW->2+HS-> Sidewinder following...

Hits 12/13

Dmg : ~171

Knock down = Yes, if BB(2) hits at the end of "Sidewinder following..."

- Nice starter for a loop, as this works anywhere on the field.

- The key is to SW Just after the jump (when it hits do "98741236+HS" so that Sol will fall immediately after the hit)

- If the SW is too late, you may miss the "2+HS" launcher. In that case replace it by "c.S, 2+HS" and act accordingly to follow the loop.

5+D->ABR->2+HS-> Sidewinder following...

Hits 13/14

Dmg : ~150

Knock down = Yes, if BB(2) hits at the end of "Sidewinder following..."

- It is an ID only if the ABR(2) hits !

- The key is to be at most at the "two 5+P" distance from Ky, not closer !

- Great in pressure : close -> 5+P,5+P, D...

- Less damage than SW's, if the ABR(2) doesn't make the hit "impossible" (hits too late), Ky will just be knocked down anyway.

- You are right under him if it is done correctly...

- High rate of "Burst" avoiding ! If at the correct distance (two 5+P ^^), your ABR will just whiff and avoid his burst ! use this to punish him severely as you are just below him... (go for a minimum 221 dmg knock down !)

5+D->j.D,j.D->DJ->SW-> Sidewinder ground following...

Hits 13/14

Dmg : ~180

Knock down = Yes, if BB(2) hits at the end of "Sidewinder ground following..."

- I guess it's one of his strongest ID.

- Hard to do the DJ in between if not in the corner !

- The SW hits before you land. Try to do it as late as possible.

- Greatest opener as you deal 110 dmg before the "sidewinder ground following" part.

5+D->DJ,j.D->j.D, SW-> Sidewinder ground following...

Hits 12/13

Dmg : ~180

Knock down = Yes, if BB(2) hits at the end of "Sidewinder ground following..."

- It's a corner only combo as the 2nd j.D must hit Ky in a corner.

- The "Sidewinder ground following..." part is similar to grand viper's. So in that case start with j.D, SW and follow accordingly to Ky's bounce.

good to remember :

- 5+D is Sol's only overhead (except BB but it's easily avoided). So most people would usually guard low and wait.

--> Make them eat some dust !

- If they have the burst, they'll usually try to burst out.

--> Avoid SW's ID and use ABR's ID at good distance (if he bursts on 1st hit you are lucky ^^), or just do the basic j.D,j.D... as it hurts his life bar before he bursts out.

- Counter Hit 5+D is an impossible dust !

--> Don't follow it but do a "Sidewinder ground following" instead (see above)

2) Throws

Normal throws don't combo well on Ky and are just a safe way to get a knockdown.

On the contrary, Wild throw is Sol's best opportunity to score a great combo !

WT-> dash under Ky-> 2+HS-> TK SW-> c.S, 2+HS-> j.S/j.HS, SW-> 2+HS-> TK SW-> 2+HS BR

Hits 12

Dmg : ~160

Knock down = Yes !

- My safest combo against Ky. Works anywhere.

- A little bit tricky if in a corner...

- j.S if Ky is low when you launch

- j.HS if Ky is high when you launch (only use one hit though)

good to remeber :

- Just like dusts, be sure to know well at least one WT combo. It'll come in handy !

- Normal throws don't combo well (at all ?) on Ky.

- Use WT in pressure/mix ups.

3) Grand Viper

Hurray for this magnificent tensionless combo !

GV is truly the key for victories in AC !

And against Ky, it's really effective, as it dodges most of his long range attacks !

Just never throw one randomly ! Only use it in a combo (after c.S, 5+HS for example).

c.S, 5+HS, GV clean hit-> j.D, SW-> 5+K, c.S, 2+HS-> j.S/j.HS, SW-> 2+HS, BR

Hits 20

Dmg ~244

Knock down = YES !!

good to remember :

- GO EASY on stand alone GV. Most Ky players bait it, and are ready to punish just after !

- GV is only useful if you manage to do a clean hit.

- If GV tires you and you want to master well the "j.D, SW-> 5+K, c.S, 2+HS-> j.S/s.HS, SW-> 2+HS, BR" part, just configure the "record player" in "key configuration mode" and record your GV clean hit. Then just play it at the beginning and continue your combo ! Happy training ^^

That's all for know. More combos can be found here->http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4231

Test them yourself on Ky to see if they work.

I'll post my last part on "Ky's deadly knock downs" and "how to get out (in one piece !) of pressure" sooner or later...

[Spirit Juice]

tl;dr Just kidding. I'll read this later and may possibly add it to the original post. I'm still at West Toast, so I don't really have time to read all this.

[Beowulf]

tl;dr

Is that the "suppress" command ? lol

As I don't really have a copy of that...

Anyway if you could correct/add things I would be thankful.

Good or bad comments are also welcome, as it's the first time I'm doing this in English.

[Nebula]

tl;dr = too long, didn't read

[Cadenza]

I see a lot of general things (off the top of my head, the whole grand viper practice thing). Should probably keep it to things strictly about the match up.

[Beowulf]

Well, Grand Viper part is just here to tell you you can use it, when and how on Ky with an example of combo... Not really a general point... But maybe you were talking about the sidewinder part ? I guess this one is different (that's why I put a 0) and not a 1) ) as I didn't found any place in the forum that tells you how you do them. At first I just wanted to precise Ky's special parts (2+HS->TK sidewinder works great ! But j.D just whiffs most of the time...) and I guess I ended writing too much... ^^ I can remove/put away this part if it bothers you that much...

[Beowulf]

Sorry, I'm quite lazy these days, so I won't finish until Saturday... (That's enough time for Spirit Juice to read it a bit I hope) Anyway I don't know what to put in the last parts (which are "defend against Ky", "Waking up from a bad dream" and "The dragon explodes ! Sol's counter-attacks !"). Also if you have any suggestion on how to present it... I was wondering between - Ky combo/pressure sequences and how to deal with them. - Only clues on how to defend/counter "correctly" and general advices. I won't do a Poll for that, but if you prefer one, or want both (others ?) just say it, that would help me actually ^^

[Beowulf]

Ok here's the final part. I was less precise than before I guess... Anyway feel free to comment.

V) Face to face part II : Ky's move

Overall, Ky's pressure/okizeme are really like Sol's. He just has a better reach, so pressure can become longer...

Legend :

D> = Defensive strategy

A> = Counter-attack strategy

a) After Ky's attack.

Ok, so you're in contact with Ky. But, wait ! You're blocking ?! Shit, that's bad !

Ok don't panic too much, stay calm... There are few ways to get out (safely !) from him.

1) In the middle of the field

The best situation I guess, as you can simply wait for his pressure to end. The hits will simply push you out, so be patient and look out for his mix-ups.

D> You can FD in order to widen faster the gap with him.

D> Always start blocking with a duck. Your 2+P can get you out of any tick throw if you see one coming.

D> Use a gap to flee backward, as he can bait any forward attack/air-dash.

D> His key point in middle screen pressure is on the 2nd hit. That's where he'll usually go for a tick throw or do an overhead (Greed Sever but more dangerous : Dusts !). If you FD'ed the first hit, you can see tick throws coming. So just duck, but be ready for a high attack.

A> Don't try to counter here if it's a normal pressure string. You'll have plenty of time later on !

A> After a blocked Greed Seever, 5+D or a 236+K (2nd hit), you have the advantage. Counter if not too far. Just don't rush if you were pushed farther than the 5+HS limit, as he could VT on reaction !

2) In a corner : the dead end

What the hell are you doing there ? Couldn't you just block his first attack in the middle instead of in a corner ? Anyway this is bad, as you'll have to take more pressure than above, AND you won't be able to go backward... Moreover Ky players will tend to create little gaps in his pressure to make you hesitate or bait you...

D> FD is your friend !

D> Watch out for mix-ups. 2nd and 4th hit are the Key here. Focus as hard as you can, and try not to do anything random !

D> Use any gap to jump out ! 1 frame jump is the best option. Just delay a bit your forward air dash while FD'ing to prevent any bait from Ky, especially his VT, as it can hit even when you crossed him. Flee whenever you think it's safe.

D> Dead angle him if you feel too oppressed. Safest way to get out, but it costs you 50% tension...

A> You can counter on reaction if the gap is at about a 5+HS distance.

A> With a GV if you see a Ball coming !

A> With a VV if you see a Greed Seever coming !

A>... With a Riot stomp... Well that's if you feel like it. Be aware that they know you'll be tempted to use it here...

3) Slash backs/Instant Block

Although less predictable than Sol's, Ky's move are usually the same. So it can become interesting to SB or IB them to take direct advantage of it !

D> Learn to SB/IB the last hit of Ky's 236+K. You'll be able to hit directly after that, even get a Wild Throw with the SB, and this from any distance ! Carefull with that, as he can FRC after the 1st hit for more pressure...

D> Learn to SB/IB on reaction Ky's Greed Seever. Same as above, but if SB'ed, you can even get a counter hit from it !

-> You can mess with 2+HS for Side winder launcher.

-> You can mess with 41236+D if you have 25% tension for a clean hit, and a SW combo !

-> You can mess with 5+D to get a free dust combo just when he lands...

good to remember :

-> Be patient ! NO RANDOM !! Don't try to mash VV or anything.

-> Watch out for his mix-ups (go to Ky's threads for more information on pressure)

-> FD !

-> It's better to flee in most cases ! Counter only if you are sure of it !

b) After a knock down : Ky's okizeme

You've done it ! You're down now ! No matter how you got knocked down, I hope you are aware that you're into big trouble !

The degree of trouble depends on where you are on the field though...

1) Charged Stun Edge

Ky's safest okizeme. His only meaty you can't reversal (in most cases). Ky uses this in order to pressure you behind.

D> Block it, and be prepared for the pressure behind.

D> Learning to SB/IB the last hit can come in handy ! Just don't miss it, or you'll get comboed behind...

D> FD is useless here, keep it for the pressure that comes after.

D> You can burn 50% tension with a dead angle if you see Ky rushing carelessly after CTE's last hit...

A> If timed well, there's nothing you can do to counter. Just wait.

A> If not timed well... You can try to GV or VV out of it... But it's probably a bait ! So defense is safer.

A> If you Slashed back the last hit, you can sometimes hit Ky before his pressure. VV is the safest way I think.

2) Cross-up at mid-screen

His damn j.K and j.S are incredibly anoying !

D> It must be blocked High and facing the good direction !

D> Instant block it and punish him when he lands ! (Slash back don't work on wake-up ^^)

D> If blocked normally, it becomes dangerous, as he has frame priority. He can both throw you or pressure when he lands.

A> VV of course ! What else could you do against a flying opponent ? It must really be done on reversal though !

A> Whatch out for VV baits... And do the motion in the right direction (it's a cross-up, remember ? ^^)

3) VV traps

Just as your VT traps, he has his VV traps on his side...

D> Well it's a bait, so he will mostly not attack you... 1 frame jump and flee !!

A> Don't VV nor GV here ! It's a bait !

A> If he comes rushing, try to throw him.

A> If he's in the air and FD, poke him out of your sight with 5+K or 5+P, or throw him when he lands...

good to remember :

-> Try to instant block/slash back his Charged stun-edge in order to counter behind.

-> Instant block his cross-up and trow him.

-> Mashing VV is... Suicide ! Watch out for baits...

Conclusion :

Try not to focus on "counter attacking" but more on "getting away safely".

Tick throws and dusts are very common in Ky's pressure. So be careful and try to catch when they'll come out !

Be patient, and wait for an opening to flee pressure ! Just don't mash if you are frustrated...

Don't get baited... Please don't !

That's all I guess. i wanted to put some more, but I just couldn't find how to put it. So if you have questions on this match-up, I'll be glad to try to answer them.

I'll say as a conclusion, that this matchup is 5:5

Really they both have the same capacities, and where Sol is faster, Ky has a better range. So people's skills are decisive here, and the first to take advantage will mostly win.

But I'd say that Ky is more likely to do a come back than Sol, as Sol players are really moody and easily do random stuffs when they are losing...

[ssj2jeff]

a little note that i think is pretty useful. sol can 2D under kys shoryu from any distance. 2D makes it whiff and allows for a free punish. i'll let you guys have fun with that one.