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P4A Tier List Discussion *5/2 Latest*

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I dont think you can categorize characters like that, and "most other things" is too vague. Also Yukiko has really good space control, but no way she's S-tier.

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I think you are misunderstanding. S = Normals + specials. Most of yukikos normals don't really occupy the space you want to be. She has a couple of good ones but nothing like Teddy, Aigis, Mitsuru. Its not just raw space control its the tools you use to control the space that is important.

Most other things is just I have some of the tools of S tier but don't do it quite as well as them so I make up for it with some persona attacks or other tricks. They ahve most of the stuff of top tier but not all of it.

Really if you look at the current "Best characters" in this game Teddy, Aigis, Mitsuru they all have the same basic game at least to start, zone you with impressive normals and then start the rush down once they have you blocking. Only one that kind of doesn't fit that is aigis but really her normals are basically just like that. Shoot some guns have people run into it then cancel into origa and rush shit down. I realize its kind of a broad over simplification but in general having a whole host of Normals that occupy large portions of the screen that other characters like to mount offense from is what occupys the top tier in this game.

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I wish Falco was in this game. He'd teach Mitsuru a lesson. That's for sure.

Anyway how good is YU?

I thought he was top three? No?

If that is the case I think I might have to drop him even though he is a TOTAL badass.

Sorry Yu. I don't deal with ( Sneers ) Low Tiers.

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Some people would say he's #2, I don't think any list would rank him below #4. Difference between #4 and #10 isn't that huge in this game, though.

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I've yet to come across any Teddies that are worth noting--so far they've all been autocombo city and easy as all holy hell

If he's considered high tier, i'm frightened when I'll come across a legitimate Teddy

Now Chies, yeah she is pretty damn scary no matter what

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No list places Mitsuru outside of the top tier. I'd say many place Yu in the top tier with Mitsuru, often just the two of them. So general outlook is set, he's #2.

3-5 is then generally distributed between Chie, Aigis, Teddie. I don't see an order here.

Then after that usually Akihiko and Hanamura, occasionally one of them sneaks into the same tier as the 3 above.

Based on JBBS posts. Not that it really matters...

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Liz has such great damage off of any of her normals. She just has a low life total and poor defensive reversal options. If you are comfortable with making your opponent guess, high damage off of ANYTHING, and confident zoning, then she's the character. The only problem with her is that you have to keep focused on what's happening with the match. Did you get a Fatal Counter because of Fear? Different combo. Is your opponent crouching? Good! High damage combo! It depends on meter on aerial/crouching opponents with Elizabeth. She's not a bad character.

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Would someone mind explaining why Aigis is placed so highly? Is it because of that nasty Orgia pressure?

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Would someone mind explaining why Aigis is placed so highly? Is it because of that nasty Orgia pressure?

Good space control with 2b, nasty air normals (J.C), consistent above average damage output anywhere on the screen with 25 SP which leads into a nasty 50/50 back into the same mix-up (a vortex of sorts essentially), silly mix-up, great damage off of any random hits (ground or air) when she's in Orgia.

To name but a few...

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I take back what I said earlier about Kanji's, I've been running into an awful lot all of a sudden and boy with Liz. . .it's just a rape-fest.

Now Aigis, pretty much what ^ said, orgia mode essentially makes all her basic stuff better, combine that with pretty solid mixups and well hot damn, you got one lethal robot to fight. I've been fortunate enough to only come across bad ones so far, but just observing her in orgia mode there's a dreadful feeling of "Wow this could be really bad in the wrong hands. . ."

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I wanna ask about Yosuke and Kanji, because from what I'm seeing while playing them, I disagree with where people are placing them on the tier lists (haven't read the whole thread in case it's been explained). Yosuke seems to have good speed and damage output but I've noticed that all of his specials are easily blocked and very punishable, which is bad, considering most of his damage comes from moonsault combos. His moonsault "crossups" are pretty slow so I can't see anyone actually getting crossed up with them. On the other hand, Kanji has every tool a grappler needs, high damage, oki options, etc, but he's got zoning tools as well, so he's not helpless against other zoners like most grapplers tend to be. Plus, his stun moves seem to be a more effective gimmick than, say, Tager's magnetism. I don't see why he's often placed in the bottom 5.

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Yosuke is usually placed high because he has a very good set of normals on top of his dash speed and fast walkspeed, meaning that he has stong footsies. Jumping against him is a big nono seeing as his 2b is completely stupid, and on counter-hit it leads into good damage. His R-Action is amazing meaning that he also has good defensive options on top of his strong offensive game, his 5 frame 5a also helps with this too.

His real mix-ups come in the form of his 'gliding' technique, a technique which causes him to fall very quickly while airdashing and still being able to block. IAD>glide after a JC normal leads into a nasty 3-way mix-up. He can either J.A for a fast overhead, wait for a frame or two longer for an incredibly quick empty jump>low with 2a or even empty jump>throw. He can also moonsault over you during IAD>glide though this is a little more obvious. Moreover, gliding also gives him a relatively safe and fast approach. His J.A has a hitbox behind him, meaning that when used with this 'gliding' it can hit on either side and on air CH it is very easy confirm into a full combo.

He generally has a lot of tools in his arsenal to deal with a great number of situations. He's just really good.

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Kanji has every tool a grappler needs, high damage, oki options, etc, but he's got zoning tools as well, so he's not helpless against other zoners like most grapplers tend to be. Plus, his stun moves seem to be a more effective gimmick than, say, Tager's magnetism. I don't see why he's often placed in the bottom 5.

The mobility issue is a problem. He doesn't really seem to have very good ways of approaching opponents without j.B or catching someone in lightning blockstun. This is a big problem considering how many defensive options are available in the game between universal invincible DPs (that can often be supercancelled), dead angle, rolls and bursting.

He's also really reliant on his Persona, which seems kinda weird for a character intended to be upclose and personal. When he's broken (and his Persona is pretty huge), he loses lightning as a way to approach, and he loses all of his oki and mixups (no furious, no AA grab, no ground command grab, no awakening super, no burst), his AoA has pitiful range and his chair super is pretty bad.

He's definitely low, but not unplayable. He has pretty big comeback potential.

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Kanji has pretty much zero mid range game and really predictable anti-projectile. The later so much isn't a problem but ex beatdown and ex cruel attack should eat projectiles better in their later frames. This makes matchups like Liz and Yukiko really hard. Liz's beam crushes so many approach options, meaning he has to safely encroach in and her 2b beats like every single button he presses. That wouldn't be a problem if he could fight his way in way easier. Her persona is difficult to deal with.

Kanji has like 3 EXTREMELY risky ways of dealing with misturu 5a and yu 5b without some really elaborate setup. His mid range isn't just ass, it's twelve asses duct-taped together formed into an even larger ass. His IAD loses to those attacks at a lot of ranges and they are more mobile so its easier to put themselves in a situation where he cant deal with the move. The same problem here applies to Liz, which is why the matchup is REALLY bad.

His other matchups are generally reasonable. He at least has a very stable offensive game. He has safe anti-jump, high damage and solid (but not the best) mixup. All his matchup problems focus on two facts: He cannot punish a projectile easily even with meter in many circumstances, and he has zero options at mid range vs the three characters with good mid range.

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The impression I keep getting from videos and this thread is that the list looks something like:

(No horizontal ranking)

Best in the game: Mitsuru

The other big four: Aigis, Teddie, Yu, Chie

The runners-up: Akihiko, Yosuke, (Naoto?)

Still perfectly usable: Labrys, Shadow Labrys, Yukiko, Elizabeth, Kanji, (Naoto?)

Can someone who's better than I am confirm/deny/yell at me?

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The impression I keep getting from videos and this thread is that the list looks something like:

(No horizontal ranking)

Best in the game: Mitsuru

The other big four: Aigis, Teddie, Yu, Chie

The runners-up: Akihiko, Yosuke, (Naoto?)

Still perfectly usable: Labrys, Shadow Labrys, Yukiko, Elizabeth, Kanji, (Naoto?)

Can someone who's better than I am confirm/deny/yell at me?

I think the same, there's no garbage character in this game, and everyone is pretty usable but yeah, Mitsuru owns the game hard, even japanese players and in the US country are having too much trouble with this character.

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