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Kiba

P4A Tier List Discussion *5/2 Latest*

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I have yet to see a matchup chart. The mook had a brief rundown on matchups but no chart of them.

What are the worst matchups, were any described as been exceptionally bad?

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The tier list in post#1 is almost close to the final version

S: Aigis, Mitsuru

A: Teddie, Akihiko, Yu, Yosuke, Chie

B: Shadow Labrys, Labrys, Yukiko, Kanji, Naoto, Elizabeth

you might rank up to Teddie, Yu and Chie to A+ as well.

Worst match ups in the game are

Elizabeth vs. Mitsuru

Yukiko vs. Shadow Labrys

Kanji vs. Elizabeth

which are close to 3:7

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So you're telling us Kanji vs Teddie isn't as bad as Kanji vs Elizabeth?

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The tier list in post#1 is almost close to the final version S: Aigis, Mitsuru A: Teddie, Akihiko, Yu, Yosuke, Chie B: Shadow Labrys, Labrys, Yukiko, Kanji, Naoto, Elizabeth you might rank up to Teddie, Yu and Chie to A+ as well. Worst match ups in the game are Elizabeth vs. Mitsuru Yukiko vs. Shadow Labrys Kanji vs. Elizabeth which are close to 3:7
do you have any info as to why these MU's are so bad? i'm surprised elizabeth is up there twice, and on opposite ends. l need to see that mook to read all the MU's.

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Elizabeth vs. Mitsuru

Droit destroys every single option Elizabeth has, Elizabeth has to guess "exactly" right to take the dmg and very risky

Yukiko vs. Shadow

Persona guard blocks all projectiles, DP is too good against Yukiko

Kanji vs. Elizabeth

Zoning allday + 2B, JB anti-air keeps away kanji so good

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So Naoto's still considered B-tier despite the SMP loops? Is it because of her low health/not getting to make many mistakes, or she just doesn't have the best matchups compared to other characters?

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Elizabeth vs. Mitsuru Droit destroys every single option Elizabeth has, Elizabeth has to guess "exactly" right to take the dmg and very risky Yukiko vs. Shadow Persona guard blocks all projectiles, DP is too good against Yukiko Kanji vs. Elizabeth Zoning allday + 2B, JB anti-air keeps away kanji so good
for liz vs mitsuru: it even destroys her r action and memento mori? her 2c also (which has a guardpoint)? damn. is that the only problem or does it get worse from here.

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for liz vs mitsuru: it even destroys her r action and memento mori? her 2c also (which has a guardpoint)? damn. is that the only problem or does it get worse from here.

Her r action is a grab that can be teched, so Mitsuru can use droit the close the distance easily. With Elizabeth's 2C, I figure the Mitsuru can delay it until after the 2C happens, or 2C doesn't reach Mitsuru's hurtbox. I'll need to watch some videos. If anything, I figured Yukiko v Aigis was one of the worst match-ups.

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If anything, I figured Yukiko v Aigis was one of the worst match-ups.

It might not be one of the worst but it still looks pretty bad. The bullets nullify all of Yukiko's projectiles and most of her Persona approaches. Aigis can close the gap pretty quick thanks to Orgia mode. That and she has pretty strong mix-ups in said mode.

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So Naoto's still considered B-tier despite the SMP loops? Is it because of her low health/not getting to make many mistakes, or she just doesn't have the best matchups compared to other characters?

If I remember correctly, the mook was written for 1.01, not 1.02, and the SMP loop hadn't been discovered yet. I'd take everything in it with a grain of salt.

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Her r action is a grab that can be teched, so Mitsuru can use droit the close the distance easily. With Elizabeth's 2C, I figure the Mitsuru can delay it until after the 2C happens, or 2C doesn't reach Mitsuru's hurtbox. I'll need to watch some videos. If anything, I figured Yukiko v Aigis was one of the worst match-ups.

against Aigis is indeed very bad match up but shadow labrys is even worse

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goddamn it, its like i always manage to gt the characters with the worst matchups in the game, jajaja

oh well, the 3 characters that i have more interest to try are the 3 with the worst matchups in the game lol

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lol, BBCT 2.0

I've gotta admit that it's impossible to balance a game on a first try.

I wouldn't compare it to BBCT. Nothing can be as bad as Tager vs Nu.

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@ached sphinx: since elizabeth's r action also has quite a bit of invul, combined with mitsuru (probably) being in active/recovery state during droit, l figured that shuffle time would plow right through it on reaction. plus there's still those evasive rolls, jumping, or ibing the attack (hopefully its punishable on ib). the move is very fast which could very well be the problem in itself; and it's understandibly hard to get around... for now. us elizabeth players will just have to work hard and find counters when we get the game in our hands.

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I wouldn't compare it to BBCT. Nothing can be as bad as Tager vs Nu.

I thought Carl v Tager was 8-2.

@ached sphinx: since elizabeth's r action also has quite a bit of invul, combined with mitsuru (probably) being in active/recovery state during droit, l figured that shuffle time would plow right through it on reaction. plus there's still those evasive rolls, jumping, or ibing the attack (hopefully its punishable on ib). the move is very fast which could very well be the problem in itself; and it's understandibly hard to get around... for now. us elizabeth players will just have to work hard and find counters when we get the game in our hands.

I checked out some videos. When Elizabeth does her lightning beam across the screen, Mitsuru and droit across the screen and reach Elizabeth in a second. It doesn't go through it or anything, but it gives Mitsuru time she needs to get where she wants to be if full screen away. Sometimes, Mitsuru can actually punish the purple beam from about mid-screen.

Another video I saw Mitsuru do 4B or 6B, which makes her hop back or forward to feint an attack. She used it to avoid the r-action completely and make Elizabeth eat a 4k combo. Shuffle times does actually defeat droit if you time it right though. I've seen it happen a few times. It will take practice I would think. The thing bad about it, I'd say, is that it isn't a horrible punish for a droit, whereas she can punish you for a lot more if droit does connect.

Oh and it's really easy for Mitsuru to kill persona stock. Though that's a general thing about her.

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I wouldn't compare it to BBCT. Nothing can be as bad as Tager vs Nu.

Tager vs Carl was worse.

But I digress.

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Tager vs Carl was worse.

Wasn't playing at the time, sorry. Though CT was full of bad Tager match-ups, so both Carl and Nu were separate aspects of a single problem.

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tager was a walking bad matchup magnet, but i still enjoyed playing with him

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Yo guys as much as I liked the bad match ups in CT this is the P4U thread lets keep it focused on that.

Stunedge what's the Kanji vs Yukiko match up like?

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Comparing P4A to BBCT seems undue. As far as I can tell, this game is pretty decently balanced - I mean, if there are really only like 6 notably bad match-ups (out of 91), and a majority of characters are in the same tier, I'd say that's a victory. It's certainly better than lots of other first efforts Arcsys has put out over the years (GGXX, BBCT, Basara, HnK), and is much better than anything Capcom puts out.

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