BB3 Wishlist thread

[destruction_adv]

A couple more things I thought of

FRKZ needs to activate Bang's nox nyctores and Bang's nox should activate full body kamen rider armor.

I'd like to see a couple new characters we haven't even met yet, like Tenjo's son. In addition, where's Kokonoe at?

[zeth07]

Vague suggestions are vague. What sorts of things do you want to see? (P.S. Netcode won't fix your bad internet).

The one thing that I want to see in training mode that I can think of off the top of my head is the ability to set counter-hits to "Random" so that I can practice hitconfirming into CH combos.

What does this mean exactly? To me "endless" is just the SF4 version of "player match" in BB.

SSF4 had this feature, and as best as I can tell, no one used it after like a week when the novelty wore off. Of course, the 8 man max or whatever it was probably didn't help.

Basically the room wouldn't be dependent on just 1 "host". If the original host leaves, it should just allow someone else to become host and not disband everyone. I haven't played SF4 in a while but I'm pretty sure that's how it functions, which is what I mean. It would still be Player Match, just have it work like that as well. This is of course assuming I remember how it works, lol.

Also to add to that, having an auto pass function would also be nice, after a certain amount of time it should auto pass.

The tournament mode would just be an additional mode to add to the game, it shouldn't matter if no one really used it, just the fact that it is an added option is nice, but being able to do more players would be cool. Unless of course you look at it as time spent on incorporating Tournament Mode could be spent adding a new character then yes I would not want Tournament Mode.

To add to the training mode thing,

I'd like to have an option that sets up the characters within the corners, and just have default spacing from that. So be able to put the opponent in either corner or even yourself. Would just be nice to not have to set that up by pushing the opponent across the screen or switching over and moving them yourself.

Another thing they could add is a more robust Challenge Mode. Give a TON of challenges for people to complete and let them unlock stuff along the way. Whether it'd be 50 combos or even 100, because there are plenty to do considering all the situations, possible hits, standing/crouching/anti-air/air to air/corner/CHs/advanced combos.

[Amadeous]

Another thing they could add is a more robust Challenge Mode. Give a TON of challenges for people to complete and let them unlock stuff along the way. Whether it'd be 50 combos or even 100, because there are plenty to do considering all the situations, possible hits, standing/crouching/anti-air/air to air/corner/CHs/advanced combos.

Actually, what I'd like to see in the next Blazblue, or any fighting game for that matter, is a Custom Challenge Mode.

You'd simply record a combo against a training dummy, and the game would record the inputs and starting positions. Afterwards, you would be able to upload your combo or challenge to the web, at which point others could download it and attempt to complete it themselves. A rating system could be added, judging the combo by Practicality, Ease, and Stylishness. I feel it would help a lot with sharing new techniques and combos that would hopefully filter down to new players, and in addition it would avoid the problem of most challenge modes having bad or impractical combos.

If there was a way challenge modes could include nasty resets and mix-up starters, that would be even better, and would help new players learn things beyond a few basic BnBs. Just my ideas.

[Airk]

SF4 sortof had that. It still had a "host" but there was a sort of host-switching magic that would happen; If the host left while folks were at the "lobby" screen, it was seamless, but if they left during a game it would boot everyone to the lobby instead. Auto-pass should absolutely happen though. Ugh.

And yeah, my reservations about Tournament Mode were based essentially on a "what could they work on instead?" value judgement.

[RadRed]

Vague suggestions are vague. What sorts of things do you want to see?

One of the main things that kind of bugs me is that when you want to do a corner combo you have to push the character all the way to one end of the stage. Having an option to start in a specific area of the screen would be nice for one thing. Also if you set your meter down to zero and start a combo, if you end or drop the combo you just keep that meter. It doesn't reset to zero. Same thing if you set it to 50, 25 or any other number.

(P.S. Netcode won't fix your bad internet).

Just because I think BB's netcode has room for improvement doesn't necessarily mean that I have bad internet.

The one thing that I want to see in training mode that I can think of off the top of my head is the ability to set counter-hits to "Random" so that I can practice hitconfirming into CH combos.

This too.

[Airk]

One of the main things that kind of bugs me is that when you want to do a corner combo you have to push the character all the way to one end of the stage. Having an option to start in a specific area of the screen would be nice for one thing.

Yeah! Starting position center/left/right/left corner/right corner would be really nice!

Also if you set your meter down to zero and start a combo, if you end or drop the combo you just keep that meter. It doesn't reset to zero. Same thing if you set it to 50, 25 or any other number.

But are there any circumstances in which having "too much" heat actually creates issues in training? I can't really think of any myself, unless you've got some really fiddly combo where you're trying to make sure that you wait for all 3 hits of something to hit so you build 50 heat by the right point? But that could just as easily be tested by looking at the combo counter?

Just because I think BB's netcode has room for improvement doesn't necessarily mean that I have bad internet.

What kind of room for improvement?

[zeth07]

Yeah! Starting position center/left/right/left corner/right corner would be really nice!

But are there any circumstances in which having "too much" heat actually creates issues in training? I can't really think of any myself, unless you've got some really fiddly combo where you're trying to make sure that you wait for all 3 hits of something to hit so you build 50 heat by the right point? But that could just as easily be tested by looking at the combo counter?

What kind of room for improvement?

Some of Bang's FRKZ combos can build the 50 Heat needed for an Ashura ender within itself. So if you test that it will keep the heat you gain, unless you press reset which in turn resets your position as well. It's obviously not bad having the heat, but if you already have the heat needed you can't tell if it actually builds it's own heat needed. If that makes sense. I guess the problem lies in having to reset to get back to 0 which like I said resets the position, so if you were testing a corner combo that's kinda annoying. So it's not so much an issue as it is just something helpful.

[Circuitous]

If you're gonna post a gameplay suggestion can you at least try to justify it? Got no problem infracting people for posting stupid shit.

Amadeous Adds: Try to avoid long, character specific lists, especially if you don't main the character and have a deep understanding of them. Asking general questions like "How can we change x character to be more fundamentally sound" are okay, even if you don't know the character, as it helps start discussion. For instance, Arakune and Noel are said to be very strong for the wrong reasons. Why is this, and how could they change it to make them into strong characters for the right reasons.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Amadeous

[WolfCrimson]

OK, a new rule: No specific character wish lists. If you want, go with a vague indication of what direction you want that character to go, keeping balance in mind eg. "I wish Ragna would sacrifice some of his damage for better mixup."

The reason I say this, is that I want smart discussions here. BB3 is gonna be a new game, and the characters are gonna get new moves, and we don't know how these moves will affect the meta game and the game's overall balance. There's no point in asking for specific changes. This is the difference between this thread and the GGAC+ wishlist thread that Amadeous pointed out. In addition, I don't trust Dustloop well enough to not devolve this thread into arguments about specific character changes; people here are bound to ridicule other people's specific changes that they wish to see, causing arguments.

Carry on.

[Jourdal]

Um...okay, i'm bored why not

-New select screen

-do something with the fucking music, i'm tired of these already...some GG characters got new themes later on

-A new HUD/default announcer

-make story a bit less time consuming...personally just take out the fights imo,also a way to just rewatch w/o having to sit through it again? unless thats already there...haven't touched story for BB since 2010

-CT colors back in one big collection like AC+

Jin

-5C>JB back on everyone, including carl

-CT JB back

-6A special cancelable again

-Jump cancelable 2B back

-623C>5C easier

-2C>5C gatling back

-Leave getsumei with the shitty damage, i'm over that, but give it the old recovery back so i can do swag crossunders again

-Air getsumei,ice version of aces high

-Do something about that unused voiced clips that sound like moves...setsuna, ginrou, shadow strike. Setsuna means instant or s/th so give him some flash step shit, he's basically vergil anyway

-Make his astral less shit i guess? idk

Laguna

-CT/CS1 22C frame advantage, 22C>5B possible again..not like anyone did those obnoxious 4 22C pickups anyway

-Old GH back

-Old BE back but no double BE

-Can leave him alone aside from this...he's pretty okay the way he is

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jourdal

[Circuitous]

BB3 is gonna be a new game, and the characters are gonna get new moves, and we don't know how these moves will affect the meta game and the game's overall balance.

BB3 hasn't even been proven to exist as a concept, but it has been indicated that we're near the end of the series. You really think they're going to make that many changes?

Your heart's in the right place, and "reset X to like they were in game Y" should be a bannable offense, but don't shut down the possibility for intelligent discussion beyond "I hope they add more characters" and "I don't like the lifebars."

[Delrian]

Redo Mu's as(s)tral if she's being kept in the game.

[zeth07]

I think what Kayeff is trying to say is "Why do you believe Ragna needs no changes, compared to the rest of the cast who you overall gave large amount of buffs".

Honestly since I expect BB3 to be a full game instead of Blazblue 2: Continuum Shift: EXTEND: ENGORGE, I'd rather see discussion about "Why is character X so fundamentally strong" and what can be done about that, rather than long lists with no given reasons to back up the changes. Do what you will though, I'm just trying to keep the thread on track.

This is something I always think about when looking at the characters. To me there are certain characters who are just fundamentally strong by the games design and their own character design+tools. Then from that when you take into account how much damage a character can do and their health it provides that slight push towards a strong character / weak character / average character.

Characters like Arakune, Rachel, Carl, Litchi, Valkenhayn, Taokaka, Jin, Lambda, Mu, Hazama are all fundamentally strong by design imo and have all the tools needed to "control the game".

By comparison, Ragna, Noel, Tsubaki, Makoto, Tager, Relius, Platinum, Hakumen, and Bang are all basically lacking "something" that I feel stops them from being inherently good no matter what or have some limiting factor to their gameplay. When you consider when Ragna, Noel, Bang, Makoto, and I guess Hakumen are considered good it is mostly because of average damage output, then from that their own gameplay controls how that happens. By design they are relatively basic in what they are capable of or have some sort of limiting factor compared to the other characters I mentioned previously.

When looking at the characters, you can see that certain characters are almost never "bad", or if they are it is through severe nerfs (CS1 Rachel). I consider that because those character's are just naturally strong within the game in terms of how they can control it. By all means in Extend almost every character is good to the point that they can win, but I feel like certain characters are just missing that little extra something to make them strong.

Which is why I'd like to see something like Bang's Unlimited Teleports added, just to give him something extra that could help his "overall" gameplay and controlling the game. It doesn't even have to be that, just SOMETHING, I feel like he's just missing some small piece to the puzzle for him to be "complete". The same thing could be said for a lot of characters, Tager is almost always an easy example, while Relius and Tsubaki come to mind as well in terms of just missing something to make them better instead of just increasing their damage through whatever means.

THAT's what I would really like to see happen in the next full BlazBlue game.

[TheGreatReptar]

Tsubaki changes I'm hoping for:

236X being + when spaced correctly again

236D and 22D getting frame advantage back

2A going from 6>5 frames

5A having 1 less recovery frame so it's +1

5B and 5C flip flopping their startup frames

5B, 236D, 6A getting a proration buffs

3C jump cancelable again

623C untech time increase and proration buff (I want midscreen dive-whiffs back =[ )

Buff j.C's hitbox, shave like 3 frames off the startup

22X proration buff so IAD combos are doable off CH 22X again

Just break the bitch for me ArcSys. Kthx

[DC]

A detailed explanation as to why Noel only has 4 guard primers.

lol jk but seriously, they don't want us to block.

Anyway, all I REALLY want is Noel's 6C speed and throw whiff back. Jumping in on Noel is so free. She was no doubt meant to be a risk reward character. Missing a 6C AA trade in CT got you fucked. They are not gonna fix 6A.

In any case I wish people would know this before they claim we mash 4D on jump ins. We lose the ability to block and it's STILL better than 6A.

[BKDennis]

Magnetism not running out during red beat combos at least

edit: and this plz

Tsubaki changes I'm hoping for:

236X being + when spaced correctly again

236D and 22D getting frame advantage back

2A going from 6>5 frames

5A having 1 less recovery frame so it's +1

5B and 5C flip flopping their startup frames

5B, 236D, 6A getting a proration buffs

3C jump cancelable again

623C untech time increase and proration buff (I want midscreen dive-whiffs back =[ )

Buff j.C's hitbox, shave like 3 frames off the startup

22X proration buff so IAD combos are doable off CH 22X again

Just break the bitch for me ArcSys. Kthx

also: a good DP

Edited May 14, 2012 by BKDennis

[Kiba]

Uhhhhh, let me give it a go then.

:

- 5D/2D manual charge. She is in CH state after all so I would like the chance to be able to calculate the right time to stop charging rather it stopping after a bar or 3. If the opponent gets CH from me charging too long, well that's my fault! Because of this, slightly lower the charge speed of 5D but do not reduce it to CS1 level speed, and lower the gradual speed of 2D, because it gets way faster. If the speed is too slow then she'll barely be able to get stocks in neutral. Also, tapping 5D is a nuisence.

- Give her a new move which requires one stock. Not sure what exactly, but having something like Ragna's GH wouldn't be a bad idea I guess? Sounds interesting, but make it have 26 frames of startup, and make the P1/P2 the same level as 214D (which is 80). In this case the input may have to be 421, since everything else seems to be covered. In terms of followups make it 236X > 214X OR 421 > 22X. Helps with giving her some new mixup too, but make it minus on block (-7 to -9).

- Please, for the love of God, seriously, remove the projectile attribute from 623A/B/C and 236236C. I don't mind how little the invincibility is, or the range even.

- Award her with a new bnb that's not 5BB > 2BB > 5CC when she has no stock. This is why I liked CS2 because she had the classy DP whiff combos. I'd like her to have a little more variation in combos without stock.

-22A/B/C proration increase. I'd like to have the followup IAD combos available again on CH.

-Make j.236B/623B useful in some way. Nearly all of her moves have a role except those, which seems a bit pointless.

[skd]

Characters like Arakune, Rachel, Carl, Litchi, Valkenhayn, Taokaka, Jin, Lambda, Mu, Hazama are all fundamentally strong by design imo and have all the tools needed to "control the game".

By comparison, Ragna, Noel, Tsubaki, Makoto, Tager, Relius, Platinum, Hakumen, and Bang are all basically lacking "something" that I feel stops them from being inherently good no matter what or have some limiting factor to their gameplay. When you consider when Ragna, Noel, Bang, Makoto, and I guess Hakumen are considered good it is mostly because of average damage output, then from that their own gameplay controls how that happens. By design they are relatively basic in what they are capable of or have some sort of limiting factor compared to the other characters I mentioned previously.

Yeah, i sorta get what you are saying, but Hakumen has a pretty defined gameplan lol. Hakumen is really strong. Most of the characters you listed rely on strong neutral play? Im probably gonna sound really retarded but when you are playing a character like ragna or plat you are seriously playing /blazblue/. A character like mu doesnt require the same type of play as she has a defined, strong gameplan already. Working with limited(by no means weak) tools makes you /really/ play fighting games.

Also at the same time i dont like the idea of speeding up overheads and such. The pace of BB makes it what it is, a very calculated game.

zzzzz i just want tsubaki to be really good and lose a lot of clothing

[Tong]

We shouldn't be discussing about specific characters changes I think...

As of now, I think:

-FRCs

-FBs

-Force Fatal moves

-More offensive mechanics to spend gauge

-Bloodedge and new characters, lol

-Standard stuff, like new HUD, char select, artwork, better gameplay and so on.

The game's pace is fine for what it is imo.

I don't they should nerf characters, just buff the weaker ones and modify the current good character to adapt to the direction they're going to take.

[Circuitous]

If you want GG mechanics in BB, just go play GG.

[Jourdal]

I don't see the need to add GG mechanics to BB, its already established itself as its own serious now, why try making it a GG clone again.

[Moy_X7]

- Yes to the auto-pass function online

- Yes to the starting position in training mode. Seriously, this shit needs to get in there somehow.

- Yes to the palette editor

I don't really care about non-gameplay related shit so I'll just stick to gameplay related shit.

+ Playable Jubei, Nine/Phantom, Kokonoe, and Saya.

+ At least two completely new characters

- All free reversals (those that don't need meter) should have a P1 of anywhere between 50 to 60 max. No free 1st frame I-frame/Guard Point move should be able to do 3 to 5fuckingK (Noel 4D says what?). In that same note, slightly nerf Jin's DP D and Plat's Excaliborg P1. Yeah, they require meter but 4.6K for Jin in the corner and 4K+ for Plat anywhere on the screen + full-screen carriage is a bit too much. If that were to happen then reduce Jin's Hirensou P1 to 80 and Plat's Excaliborg to 70.

- Nerf air throw hit-boxes, that shit looks silly when Character A is way the hell out of Character B's arm reach and they get magically dragged down from above or below by the air throw hit-box.

- Fix hurt-boxes in a way that they seem a bit more logical. There shouldn't be a hurt-box on a character's weapon/clothes. I'll give you Plat's hair and Carl's hat if only because it would be a pain in the ass to do combos or land hits on them.

- Find a way to balance Noel just right. Improve her normals and specials and give her some new ones but nerf the various D moves' P1. Like I said, I shouldn't have to lose fucking 5K and be put in the corner because I made a mistake or I left a gap on my pressure string.

- Give characters the ability to break Primers in reasonable moves and at least in two different moves, not in ones that leave the characters highly unsafe on block. By reasonable, I mean the ones that have a pretty slow start-up but are positive on block or the ones that have a moderate start-up but are slightly negative on block.

Some characters have them in one right move like Ragna's Death Spike, Jin's 2D, Valk's 6C, Hazama's 6A, Litchi's 6D, Rachel's 4B, Lambda's Spike Chaser, Carl with the various Nirvana specials. Mu has them in the two perfect places being Sword of Decimation and Stein Explosions, both have slow start-ups and the latter requires positioning. Then you have the characters that have to take a huge risk if they even want to break primers such as Plat and her Heart Car, Makoto and her unsafe Drives, Noel that needs to use a Drive before she can use 6C (I guess she could do j.D close to the ground, negate the start-up and go straight into 6C). I'm also aware that Plat can break primers with the Hammer but that shit is too situational because of the random factor. The only character that should keep his slow and unsafe Primer breaking moves is Arakune but only because of his shitty Curse design.

[zeth07]

Yeah, i sorta get what you are saying, but Hakumen has a pretty defined gameplan lol. Hakumen is really strong. Most of the characters you listed rely on strong neutral play? Im probably gonna sound really retarded but when you are playing a character like ragna or plat you are seriously playing /blazblue/. A character like mu doesnt require the same type of play as she has a defined, strong gameplan already. Working with limited(by no means weak) tools makes you /really/ play fighting games.

Also at the same time i dont like the idea of speeding up overheads and such. The pace of BB makes it what it is, a very calculated game.

zzzzz i just want tsubaki to be really good and lose a lot of clothing

Hakumen and actually Platinum as well I do feel are strong characters and can control the game so they are sort of the gray area for me between the two groups. The difference between those two and the other group however is that they do have an imposed "limit" to their character within the actual gameplay mechanics. Platinum obviously with the items and Hakumen with the moves requiring meter, but how they get them could be good within the game but that's not really my point. But yes I do agree that Hakumen is strong so if I had to move anyone into the other group he'd probably be one of them.

Now you look at the other characters, and they either have NO limit in terms of gameplay or their imposed negative aspects are basically not apparent at all.

The best comparisons I can make would be Litchi to Relius or even Rachel to Bang. Litchi can do whatever she wants, whenever she wants, while Relius is almost exclusively dependent upon Ignis' meter which doesn't seem balanced compared to say Carl's. Yet Litchi's staff has almost the same practical applications as Ignis for Relius. For Rachel she gets to throw as many lobelias, georges, pumpkins, as she wants and only has to deal with a timer that is basically non-existent anyway for a "limit". Then you look at Bang who is limited to 12 nails, but those nails have to be used throughout his entire gameplay for him to be even remotely successful, yet it is a heavily imposed limit by comparison.

You can see these differences across the game when looking at the characters and to me they are very apparent and if it wasn't for characters being able to do X amount of damage more than the others it would stand out even more.

Which brings me to my point that I do think some characters need to be "reworked" or just get some added tools to their gameplay to make them more solid overall.

EDIT: Lol I just noticed Moy's point about the primers, and can't help but notice the characters he mentioned for each part. (Outside of Ragna's Dead Spike)

Edited May 14, 2012 by zeth07
typo

[Airk]

- All free reversals (those that don't need meter) should have a P1 of anywhere between 50 to 60 max. No free 1st frame I-frame/Guard Point move should be able to do 3 to 5fuckingK (Noel 4D says what?). In that same note, slightly nerf Jin's DP D and Plat's Excaliborg P1. Yeah, they require meter but 4.6K for Jin in the corner and 4K+ for Plat anywhere on the screen + full-screen carriage is a bit too much. If that were to happen then reduce Jin's Hirensou P1 to 80 and Plat's Excaliborg to 70.

Hell yes. So tired of "Hey, you were somewhere near the corner when I hit you with Inferno Divider! 3K for j00!"

- Nerf air throw hit-boxes, that shit looks silly when Character A is way the hell out of Character B's arm reach and they get magically dragged down from above or below by the air throw hit-box.

Not so sure about this. Air throws serve an important purpose in this game and I feel like reducing the hitboxes too much might impair that.

- Fix hurt-boxes in a way that they seem a bit more logical. There shouldn't be a hurt-box on a character's weapon/clothes. I'll give you Plat's hair and Carl's hat if only because it would be a pain in the ass to do combos or land hits on them.

I'm torn on this - on the one hand, it makes no bloody sense that hitting someone in the sword should be able to hurt them (and even LESS sense that hitting someone in their Magic Glowing Wing would hurt them.). But on the other hand, it means that characters with weapons suddenly get a massive advantage because a lot of their attacks no longer extend their hurtboxes. This means characters like Bang and Makoto (who technically has weapons, but not really.) will be at a fairly big disadvantage in footsies against characters with weapon attacks. On the third hand, it is TOTALLY IDIOTIC the way it is now where SOME weapon attacks extend hitboxes, and others don't (Looking at you, Hakumen!).

@Zeth07: I don't really agree that there are characters who are "fundamentally good" and characters who are not. Any of these characters can be made viable by any of a number of methods, and many of them have unique ways of controlling space (Bang, for example, may have limited nails, but he's got all the extra air action uses he wants. It's not as if he's defined by nails.) and similarly, Relius might need a little bit of tampering with how much 'wife meter' he has and uses, but overall the design is fine. Similarly, if you look at Tsubaki in CS2 when her D moves were GOOD (And that's not just in proration/damage, either but also frame advantage and such) then she was a solid and unique character who controlled space in a way no one else in the cast does/did (Which of course resulted in some people bitching, which is usually a good sign that a BB character is doing okay. :P ). Similarly, as you say, it's quite possible to **** up an "inherently good" character ala CS1 Rachel. Plus, I have no idea how you are making this division, since a lot of people have been whining at me lately that Jin "doesn't have a purpose" in extend. x.x

[shtkn]

i only have one system change to highly recommend: gold burst combo starter should not be able to kill. a dp that's +5 on block is too strong as a round finisher imo.