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EmptySkyForm

Afraid of Victory?

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I have an unusual circumstance and I wanted to get some advice from others on here, maybe you know what I mean.

To put it simply, I have reached a point where I am afraid of victory. I am afraid of beating an opponent or even just plain winning. I just feel like there is just a crushing defeat waiting for me around the corner. So I just stick to fighting the AI on easy difficulties and don't really practice very well. I used to want to be better though, to want to fight better players, and to gain great mastery over my mains. But now I'm not sure what happened.

Has this ever happened to you guys? Do you have any advice?

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I got that when I first started playing. I didn't want to get that first loss. You kinda' just have to grit your teeth and take crushing defeats like a man. Train up, then crush them even harder.

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l used to be like that with rachel in ct, despite never really recieving hate of any kind besides the occasional netplay warrior (coughLIEUTENANTcough). it was all in my head, but l 'dealt' with it by learning the other characters, this way the foe can't say i'm abusing any one tactic. after awhile, learning the other characters became fun and rewarding rather than a defense mechanism.

losing wasn't fun either, but l can take plenty of losses now since i've mentally matured.

if l had to give advice, it would be, expect the inevitable. unless you stop playing offline/netplay forever starting now, you will, eventually, lose. you may be good but theres ALWAYS someone better, around any corner, waiting.

but! when you lose, fall from the sky with grace, and accept it! its not the end of the world, and each loss presents boundless information for you to take and use to strengthen yourself further - if, you take it.

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That's just it, I have lost the will to try any more. Its just that I am afraid to win because I feel the higher I go the farther I have to fall. So I don't try, and just stay the same.....afraid to win.

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You're afraid of losing, and starting to feel that losing is natural. Don't fall into that trap, and just mentally dig yourself out of that. It's very negative.

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if you don't care anymore but still love the game, then yeah, l guess the al is a perfect opponent for you.

but you wouldn't have posted this thread if you really didn't care. and, though your fear is rational (who wants to lose?), it really isn't getting/going to get you anywhere. you'll just be one of those 'could have, would have, should have' people who had the potential but chose to fade into obscurity.

it's like life, you choose to make an impression on the world and how strong. you work hard now and prosper later. you slap fear in the face and believe that you will achieve your goals and dreams. you can't kick back and expect good things to happen, YOU have to MAKE them happen, and part of that is knowing there will be pain and suffering, but those wild, untrained skills will be refined into something beautiful and useful.

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I doubt that. All my victories are small and my defeats are crushing. Beating a tough opponent does not feel good or anything, but losing feels so bad. It's like, why win?

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I personally enjoy playing the games I play. There's a certain amount of time I need in training mode to get started, but playing the game is what I enjoy and the only thing I hate is waiting for my turn and when there isn't enough info available on the game I want to learn.

You don't really "fall" much in fighters. Losing doesn't make you into a worse player (usually it makes you better) so it is only following if you're investing way too much fun/self esteem in being undefeated. Really good sessions involve many losses and the knowledge and experience you gain is much more meaningful. At least if your goal is to be strong. If you want to be a winner, then you can continue to beat up easy computers and playing other single player games that you can't lose at (I'm playing breath of fire 3). It isn't like it makes you less of a man or anything those modes and games exist for your enjoyment. Not everyone has to be a competitive gamer.

I just think it'd be a shame to be too focused on how matches end to remember that there's a lot of neat stuff that happens during the match. The best part is before the match is over after all.

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I doubt that. All my victories are small and my defeats are crushing. Beating a tough opponent does not feel good or anything, but losing feels so bad. It's like, why win?

Passion.

That is, imo, the only reason why anyone does anything competitive ever. If you have to make a living on that stuff, you really, really need to love what you do. It's the only thing that will keep you going when the going gets tough.

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I personally enjoy playing the games I play. There's a certain amount of time I need in training mode to get started, but playing the game is what I enjoy and the only thing I hate is waiting for my turn and when there isn't enough info available on the game I want to learn.

You don't really "fall" much in fighters. Losing doesn't make you into a worse player (usually it makes you better) so it is only following if you're investing way too much fun/self esteem in being undefeated. Really good sessions involve many losses and the knowledge and experience you gain is much more meaningful. At least if your goal is to be strong. If you want to be a winner, then you can continue to beat up easy computers and playing other single player games that you can't lose at (I'm playing breath of fire 3). It isn't like it makes you less of a man or anything those modes and games exist for your enjoyment. Not everyone has to be a competitive gamer.

I just think it'd be a shame to be too focused on how matches end to remember that there's a lot of neat stuff that happens during the match. The best part is before the match is over after all.

I feel that the only way you can do well/enjoy a fighter is to win at them. Losing is an imperfection that shows you do not have the ability to play the game. The only fun is fighting worthy opponents and beating them. The only thing that matters is that you are left standing in the victory pose. At least that has been my experience with fighting games.

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But didn't you just say "why win?"? If winning doesn't mean anything, neither does losing. Why are your defeats so 'crushing'? Nothing is on the line here, not even your self esteem.

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I love how the guys who are the least willing to play are the ones who always are like WINNING IS ALL THAT MATTERS IF YOU CAN'T YOURE A SCRUB even though nobody that actually plays the game a lot thinks that way.

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I love how the guys who are the least willing to play are the ones who always are like WINNING IS ALL THAT MATTERS IF YOU CAN'T YOURE A SCRUB even though nobody that actually plays the game a lot thinks that way.

Perfectionist? Trying to think of the right psychological disorder but failing.

Now I'm picturing one of those players sitting in the corner with a razor crying, "I'm such a scrub! I'm such a scrub!" :psyduck:

My advice:

Winning isn't really important; enjoying the game is important. Sure, winning helps most people with that, but I know plenty of people (myself included) who don't mind losing, and can recognize a good match when we play one.

Try to be more self-reflective, especially about your priorities with fighting 'games'. :roboky:

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The thing is, everytime I lose I play over the mistakes from the loss and it's just a reminder of how much I failed. Whenever I lose I'm reminded that I'm not good enough to play the game, or against better players. Beating small challenges just makesme dread the fight against better players, since I know I'll fail. So it is a matter of self esteem, since I get beat down when I lose.

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The thing is, everytime I lose I play over the mistakes from the loss and it's just a reminder of how much I failed. Whenever I lose I'm reminded that I'm not good enough to play the game, or against better players. Beating small challenges just makesme dread the fight against better players, since I know I'll fail. So it is a matter of self esteem, since I get beat down when I lose.

Then maybe you need a therapist instead of an internet forum, because it sounds like you have bigger issues.

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I guess I just have to accept my skill (which is pretty good, or so I'm told) as real and get used to seeing losses as learning instead of crushing. But it's not so bad against real life opponents instead of online.

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I think it is important to remember that unlike a rubik's which is a success/fail type of things, Fighting games are more like batting averages where as long as you have a certain percentage of successes then you're doing Great. Match ups are even listed that way in fighting games. Even if you're a little more skilled than your opponent and have a character advantage you're not likely to win 100% of the time. If you're evenly skilled you should still lose several times in 10 matches.

I felt really in control of my last extended gaming session where I went 21 to 15. It was a strong showing that I felt pretty good about, but if a few of the close games had gone the other way I'd have lost more than I had won.

And yeah online can be very difficult especially if you end up playing a lot of different people. Many things fly online that wouldn't irl and not just because of delay. Gimmicky strategies become strong when they play a new person every game.

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The more matches you play (win or loss) the better you get. The better you get the less you lose.

As long as you're learning from these matches at least

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I have an unusual circumstance and I wanted to get some advice from others on here, maybe you know what I mean.

To put it simply, I have reached a point where I am afraid of victory. I am afraid of beating an opponent or even just plain winning. I just feel like there is just a crushing defeat waiting for me around the corner. So I just stick to fighting the AI on easy difficulties and don't really practice very well. I used to want to be better though, to want to fight better players, and to gain great mastery over my mains. But now I'm not sure what happened.

Has this ever happened to you guys? Do you have any advice?

Your not afraid of winning, thats fear of losing.

Personally I would rather lose than win. Theres a lot more to learn from when you lose.

So just realize if you lose..... that means you have things to learn. Really think about the loss, and work on whatever you can think of. If you just get sad from a loss, you have the wrong attitude about it.

Just suck it up, and go in with the attitude "Even if i lose, I will improve."

Itll make things easier, and if you cant think like that at all... well you probably already hit your wall.

(and if nothing else, take benchmarks that make yourself feel better. it shouldnt be needed, but if thats what you need, it is what it is.

"i lost, but I took a round" "i lost 2-0, but I wasnt perfected" "i was perfected, but at least it wasnt a double perfect" "i got double perfected, but at least I blocked that one mixup."

There IS a way to look at a loss and turn it into a minor/moral victory instead.)

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Your not afraid of winning, thats fear of losing.

Personally I would rather lose than win. Theres a lot more to learn from when you lose.

So just realize if you lose..... that means you have things to learn. Really think about the loss, and work on whatever you can think of. If you just get sad from a loss, you have the wrong attitude about it.

Just suck it up, and go in with the attitude "Even if i lose, I will improve."

Itll make things easier, and if you cant think like that at all... well you probably already hit your wall.

(and if nothing else, take benchmarks that make yourself feel better. it shouldnt be needed, but if thats what you need, it is what it is.

"i lost, but I took a round" "i lost 2-0, but I wasnt perfected" "i was perfected, but at least it wasnt a double perfect" "i got double perfected, but at least I blocked that one mixup."

There IS a way to look at a loss and turn it into a minor/moral victory instead.)

How, then, do you look at a constant stream of losses - where the matchup is quite in your opponents favor - in a positive limelight and STILL somehow manage to keep your sanity? I can literally feel the pain of MY losses, it's like someone's stamping their foot on my back, trying to make me kneel in humiliation.

I know I shouldn't be feeling any sort of heavy levels of emotions when I lose, but I've literally tried all I know to suppress and get through sessions without feeling any sort of emotional overload, and I've just.... well, failed miserably. I hide it in order to not be seen as a emo child - because from what I've seen, nobody likes it when you whine and go all "drama queen" on people. Hell, I should just be saying "Good games" where applicable, right? That's really what people expect to hear.

But when I'm losing non-stop, and my combo patterns are getting wrecked because the stress of my situation forces my muscle memory to unravel and vanish, then what do you suppose I do when I've exhausted all my mental self-therapy options that other "shitty ass therapists" have suggested?

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Sounds like you're afraid of competition and the nature of competitive games.

You could either find a way to get that competitive spirit back, or stop playing competitively (duh).

Losing isn't all that bad. It happens, and no one likes to lose, unless they grew some masochistic thrill from it. But that's where the learning experience comes from.

Don't be afraid to get blown up, because it'll happen, at least once to any player at any skill level. Looking back at a vid of you taking it in the ass from whatever the fuck can be fun in it's own right, and it teaches you how to avoid getting blown up in the future.

Part of the thrill of competition is learning how to compete properly. If it's not for you, then retire.

Just the two cents from dumb ol' Skye.

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Then maybe you need a therapist instead of an internet forum, because it sounds like you have bigger issues.

Quoting this because it absolutely does seem like a psychology issue. Asserting that you do not understand how people who lose can still enjoy the game because losing is "utter failure" is, frankly, a little disturbing.

You will never ever win all of your matches. The best players of games of all types in the world do not win every time. We are only human. There is no shame in losing; I lose all the time on netplay doing dumb things when I feel like I should know way better (probably like, for instance, not to netplay to begin with.) However, I do not feel like I am a loser or that I have brought myself great shame for simply losing a match. Somebody has to lose for this game to be played, and the "it's not fun unless I win" mentality is something the video game world in general needs way less of.

Not really trying to grill you or anything, but really, if you're posting on this on dustloop, you probably do legitimately need help--which is also nothing to be ashamed of.

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Just pretend it's DBZ.

That's what I do. It helps me battle all of my mental issues. But no, really.

(TL;DR at end)

To original poster and...

How, then, do you look at a constant stream of losses - where the matchup is quite in your opponents favor - in a positive limelight and STILL somehow manage to keep your sanity?

Can't blame yourself if it's a negative match-up.

That's stupid. You're stupid. Stop being stupid. (I'm kidding!)

Seriously. If the board is too break with your fist, use something else. If that doesn't work even with repeated hits, then just stop hitting it.

Translation: Stop beating yourself up for no reason. It isn't your fault. Stop acting like it is.

If it's positive for your character, then they are just better than you. Figure out what you're doing wrong and think of ways to 'correct' yourself. How do you think other players improve? Magic? It took me three and a half years (25,000+ matches, at least half of them were losses) to get decent at Blazblue with the easiest character in the game (Ragna, in my opinion). It takes time, but not always as long as it took me. Losses upset me, and I spent a good time derping around until I actually decided to sit down and think about why so many people passed by me when quite a number of them started getting somewhat 'serious' long after me (Lunakage the Noel mod, for example).

I complained before the change. Losing angered me. Losing to certain people depressed me. I even went so far to avoid playing against people I recognized as better players because I knew I would lose. Apologies to DannySchme, Luna, Tsuuna, Grendy, and a few others during CT + early CS1

The day I lost against Luna consistently was probably the most upsetting time I've had when playing a fighting game. Picked every character I was 'best' with, lost. Counter picked and still lost. Felt like LK at Evo. :roboky: Joke aside, I ended up reflecting on my mood and what caused it. At that point in time, I noticed the very first mistake I ever made back when I first picked up the game: I eventually forgot it was a game, and cared more about results instead of how I went about getting them. Worrying more about what you are doing wrong instead of that you are doing something wrong is the -only- way to begin to not make those mistakes anymore.

This is probably the most obvious and repeated bit of advice you might be told: It's a game. I enjoyed winning more than I did playing; the fighting game genre wasn't for me if I kept that attitude. Check yourself and ask what's actually important to you. Enjoying the game, or avoiding failure because you can't handle the scrapes when you fall down.

TL;DR

End advice: If you don't want to feel upset when you lose, then you have three options.

1. Change how you think/feel about the game; you can't become disgruntled if you don't see losing as something 'bad'. What are you actually losing in a video game, anyway?

2. Change how you play the game. Be more thoughtful about how you go about things. If losing multiple times makes it harder each time, then save a replay or three and leave (for online), or ask for advice from the person you lost from (or people that play against them consistently) after a few matches, call it quits, and cool off before/while contemplating on their words.

If you work on improving while tolerating losing in healthy doses, then you will become upset less by losing less. :psyduck: Just keep in mind that this will take the longest to solve the 'losing' issue.

3. Stop playing these games against other people. You'd only harm yourself by continuing to do so at any point with this mentality. :toot:

Quoting this because it absolutely does seem like a psychology issue. Asserting that you do not understand how people who lose can still enjoy the game because losing is "utter failure" is, frankly, a little disturbing.

You will never ever win all of your matches. The best players of games of all types in the world do not win every time. We are only human. There is no shame in losing; I lose all the time on netplay doing dumb things when I feel like I should know way better (probably like, for instance, not to netplay to begin with.) However, I do not feel like I am a loser or that I have brought myself great shame for simply losing a match. Somebody has to lose for this game to be played, and the "it's not fun unless I win" mentality is something the video game world in general needs way less of.

Not really trying to grill you or anything, but really, if you're posting on this on dustloop, you probably do legitimately need help--which is also nothing to be ashamed of.

This, too. You can only know how to not fuck up by being fucked up enough times to know better.

This next part is specifically directed towards...

I hide it in order to not be seen as an emo child - because from what I've seen, nobody likes it when you whine and go all "drama queen" on people. Hell, I should just be saying "Good games" where applicable, right? That's really what people expect to hear.

Casual play, bro. Don't throw your arcade stick like SOME people have. :kitty: "Change your way of thinking about an issue, or do what you can to change the problem. Don't complain." Saying 'Good Gameâ„¢' is part of showing good sportsmanship. Nobody likes a sore sport. Honestly, I don't say Good Gameâ„¢ after every game I play, but when I do I shake their hand vigorously and stare intensely at their face while making enraged grunting noises if you know the person and are on good terms with them don't be afraid to be friendly.

There is no ill-intent with what I have in response to your post, but I will suggest "3. Stop playing these games against other people. You'd only harm yourself by continuing to do so at any point with this mentality. :toot:"

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How, then, do you look at a constant stream of losses - where the matchup is quite in your opponents favor - in a positive limelight and STILL somehow manage to keep your sanity? I can literally feel the pain of MY losses, it's like someone's stamping their foot on my back, trying to make me kneel in humiliation.

I know I shouldn't be feeling any sort of heavy levels of emotions when I lose, but I've literally tried all I know to suppress and get through sessions without feeling any sort of emotional overload, and I've just.... well, failed miserably. I hide it in order to not be seen as a emo child - because from what I've seen, nobody likes it when you whine and go all "drama queen" on people. Hell, I should just be saying "Good games" where applicable, right? That's really what people expect to hear.

But when I'm losing non-stop, and my combo patterns are getting wrecked because the stress of my situation forces my muscle memory to unravel and vanish, then what do you suppose I do when I've exhausted all my mental self-therapy options that other "shitty ass therapists" have suggested?

How the fuck do you think everyone started these games? This is not SF4 where you come in and have the opportunity to win some. If you start playing against players that are even remotely decent, you will lose. You can lose as much as 300 games before getting a little understanding about how to play the game. If you cannot deal with this, you might as well quit the game. If you want a really big tip: stop playing with your pride on the line.

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