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Phrekwenci

Zappa Love+R (the theoretical AC+R thread)

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As we all know, if the dog is hit when it is in its neutral state it will go to sleep, but does this apply to projectiles as well. I see this as a problem against characters like Ky.

No, this means the dog can now absorb two hits for us now. I see it as a buff: Dog gets hit and goes to sleep, Zappa gets free counterhit while dog wakes up.

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I started watching the stream for the loketest this morning here and just saw a Zappa who didn't seem to know what to do. Then some asshole Axl player just poked him out of everything before really getting a chance to show anything off.

A few things I've noticed thus far, the dog is in the tiny version when first summoned (invincible but not playable during this time). There's something new with the ghosts but I'm not sure what it is. The animation for Zappa is the same for Raoh's 6HS, and Zappa had ghosts on him but didn't do anything. There was another animation for another move with the ghosts which is probably one of the new normals, it uses the sword 6HS animation but he didn't have ghosts to see what it was.

EDIT: someone is playing by themselves and saw the CPU Zappa. I think I saw the jHS actually stay in place after the hit. I have a feeling that all the dynamic (trailing) sword moves (jHS, 2HS, 5HS, 2S) have the new stall property.

Edited by Phrekwenci

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No, this means the dog can now absorb two hits for us now. I see it as a buff: Dog gets hit and goes to sleep, Zappa gets free counterhit while dog wakes up.

I like the way you think. This could be really good afterall. Something the developers may not be thinking about (or are they?)

I started watching the stream for the loketest this morning here and just saw a Zappa who didn't seem to know what to do. Then some asshole Axl player just poked him out of everything before really getting a chance to show anything off.

A few things I've noticed thus far, the dog is in the tiny version when first summoned (invincible but not playable during this time). There's something new with the ghosts but I'm not sure what it is. The animation for Zappa is the same for Raoh's 6HS, and Zappa had ghosts on him but didn't do anything. There was another animation for another move with the ghosts which is probably one of the new normals, it uses the sword 6HS animation but he didn't have ghosts to see what it was.

EDIT: someone is playing by themselves and saw the CPU Zappa. I think I saw the jHS actually stay in place after the hit. I have a feeling that all the dynamic (trailing) sword moves (jHS, 2HS, 5HS, 2S) have the new stall property.

Depending on how awkward or fluid the sword floatiness is, this could potentially lead to some excellent space control which may be the main reason why the devs allowed the sword to be blocked normally for the sake of balance.

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There's stream videos up on youtube, thankfully a good deal of Zappa. I'm going to post the relevant ones here: ...As I was doing this, the videos were being removed. I wasn't able to see anything else.

EDIT: this is a dustloop user account (tataki) and he's putting all the videos together into one file on his channel. We'll have to wait a bit. Trust me, there was plenty of Zappa.

EDIT2: We back up, here's my commentary for this video as I watch it.

The first summon is the sword, and holy hell this keep away is funny. Johnny didn't know what to do for the first 10 seconds because of the new sword delay. You'll see the dog start-up time in this match also. We can follow-up after the naked f5S. 1:19 is probably the new 6S move with the ghosts (using the sword 6HS animation), it looks like the c5S move so I don't know what the difference is since he definitely still has the same c5S move. The ghost f5S is definitely shorter.

Next match with Slayer, the new ghost j2S is probably at 2:06.

Another Slayer match, you'll see Zappa jump over Slayer with the jHS sword at 3:30 and then it just stays there (now I have a Chris Brown song stuck in my head, SWORD IN THE AIR AND IT STAYS THERE). I think we all do this sort of cross up with the original sword lag but we'll need to think of something different now that there is a delay. Again it happens at 3:51.

Next match with Faust. It seems that the sword rush will reset the sword's position back to Zappa no matter where it is. I'm assuming this will also be the case for the sword uppercut but not the swipe.

Zappa returns at 5:21. 5:38 has sword interesting new sword pressure.

Zappa returns at 8:38 against Justice. Zappa went for a mini-dog loop midscreen around 8:46. Absolute LOL at 9:00 with the sword. Confirm that the sword uppercut resets position. Zappa wins because Justice can't move past the sword. Wow.

Next match with Ky, couple more dog loop tries midscreen, nothing we all haven't tried. I'm noticing at around 10:30, Zappa is using moves that progress the sword forward but it seems they don't go beyond 2/3 of the screen.

Next match is with May. There's an airthrow into summon at 11:07. In the notes about the changes there's some OTG properties. Where we used to simply do this to get orbs, now we can RC this and RELAUNCH. This is also probably another reason we can't use the dog immediately after summoning. If you see in the video Zappa could have continued a combo immediately without RCing using the dog waiting for the recovery of the summon. Zappa does the Raoh 6HS animation with the ghosts at 11:33 but I still can't tell what it does (maybe this is the yappari kaete kudasai thing).

Zappa returns at 21:40 against Bacon. Interesting idea at 21:54, Bacon tries to run past the sword but Zappa tries to respond using the sword uppercut to reset position and counterattack. If he tried this a few moments earlier it might have worked. At 22:00 Zappa does 8D, D with the dog but delayed. It seems that the combination might work but you can't tell here. New ghost moves again at 22:07. Stupid sword things at 22:16. Dog backflip attack definitely moves the dog forward a bit more at 22:43.

Next match versus Eddie. Just sword things again at 24:13.

Next match versus Bacon. Airthrow to summon again at 24:41, same properties shown. At 25:04 it looks like the dog does the retreat and then the lunge in the air just as Bacon attacks it. This is probably the new 4D, 6D combination we have.

That's it for this video. I'll make a new post for the second if there's anything in there.

Edited by Phrekwenci

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Seconds video is located here.

First match with Zappa is at 4:04 against Faust (this Faust is nuts, the match just before he did about 85% damage against Dizzy in a few seconds). 4:27 confirms the dog retreat into lunge (4D->6D). Puts Faust in a hard knockdown.

Next match is Robo-Ky. More sword stuff here. First view of Raoh at 5:35 but nothing we haven't seen in AC here.

Next match is Venom. Nothing to report, Zappa dies here.

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The sword is looking pretty hilarious right now. But I somehow feel its kind of gimmicky and wont' be much of a threat to the opponent outside of Justice and Potemkin (I don't know how those 2 are gonna handle that thing). I hope that this new property remains as a really good tool for Zappa. Right now from what I'm seeing, I'm lovin' it.

Also it appears that the dog can't get hit while in neutral state anymore. It looks like a lot of moves including Faust's 2K go right through it. Also Ky's stun edges go over the dog so even if the dog can get hit, the stun edges probably would miss it. I think.

Edited by Zoogstin

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I think it'll depend on if they can counterattack the sword to hit Zappa. Like can you hit a projectile with it? Something we'll need to wait and see, but I'm thinking no. Otherwise, in terms of it being threatening, I think it'll be important to get the sword back to you quickly using the uppercut and rush or waiting for it to come back using normals in certain instances.

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I had a stupid idea last night, and I don't know if it'll work but with the sword:

counterhit 6P, jP, jS, jHS (land) 5S (JI), 2HS, superjump jK, jS, (JC), jK, jS, jHS/jD/236HS

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is it just me or did darkness anthem follow up (p) look a lot slower in the stream? also the (k) follow up for ghost toss(air) seemed to drop at a steeper angle

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So, someone uploaded a video to youtube with just Zappa changes from the loketest. I think this is a must see, it shows a lot of the stuff we've been wondering.

First, the dog bite does not knock the opponent back very far. It's probably similar to a naked 2D really. He also does some new pushback stuff with a midscreen loop. You can see the dog neck hit Millia and push her back into Zappa.

Raoh's fireball doesn't seem to travel very far. This might be the new fireball since one of the first videos I remember showing the air fireball having the same speed we've seen in AC. It seems you can attack after releasing the fireball in the air as well. Then some sword jHS FRC testing, nothing new there really.

Now the ghosts. That new move (using the animation from Raoh's 6HS) seems to bring the ghost haunting the opponent back to Zappa. He also does the new 6S and j2S moves. The repeated S attack seems to combo without counterhit (I remember this being a problem in previous games). He does an air combo around 0:57 where he combos jP to jS. I believe this is new.

Then it seems like they do some match stuff, OTG summon at 1:15.

The thing I was thinking about (with the Zappa / dog air combo assist nonsense) is at 1:39. Dog does 8D and immediately does (6?)D follow-up which throws the HOS into the corner. I believe if Zappa was where HOS landed it could have extended the combo. Another few attempts at 3:27, later trying the dive attack and finally gets a bite to combo (I would have used c5S).

At 2:00 you can Zappa is having a problem getting the sword to come back down. I know he's doing a standing S so I don't know if the 2S would do anything better. We know we can reset position with the 236S or 623HS or just wait. He does a 236S soon after, you can see it doesn't travel very far (probably holding back to control it).

At 2:10 the new 6S with the ghosts has a sort of staircase effect.

At 2:42 playing with the new sword rush properties. Looks like the far one goes about half screen. It also seems to matter how far you go as where the sword ends up afterward. Perhaps the close version may allow for a comboed follow-up and the far just allows us to transverse quickly.

At 3:38 he attempts sword air combos which seem to be a problem. The new sword lag is completely missing the opponent (too low), though I wonder if he tried comboing with jK and then jS if it would have been any better? More attempts at 5:38 using the 623HS FRC 2HS JC but no good, only connected with the sword swipe.

At 4:15, a very interesting combo with the new ghost 6S. If it was JC'able he wouldn't have gotten the black beat.

At 4:30, confirmed that the sword j236HS does reset sword position.

HILARIOUS THINGS (ie: Raoh combo) at 4:40 and later holding Justice down with the sword.

At 5:37, confirm that sword 2S does move the sword down. It seems some moves will move the sword in different places (like the 2HS going up for example). It looks like the jHS moves it forward also.

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with the sword, i wonder if we can do (2H > 63214H FRC)xN and if it would be worth it. with 2 orbs/hit of the 63214H it could get us to raoh super fast.

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with the sword, i wonder if we can do (2H > 63214H FRC)xN and if it would be worth it. with 2 orbs/hit of the 63214H it could get us to raoh super fast.

I know for sure we can swipe FRC swipe right now in AC. But we've been following the FRC up for damage in air combos rather than orbs.

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I've been looking for Zappa matches since the Japan release but they are few and far between. However, in many of them I did see, I noticed all did something that seemed very odd to me until now. Many of the players are doing naked 2D for the knockdown but not immediately summoning afterward, they would input the summon after the opponent hit the floor. I didn't see the point until watching this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuQtDqy0j4

At 24:15 against Sol, Zappa knocks down the opponent uses the summon to OTG and then immediately follows up with a ghost combo. What is semi-important here is that he uses 5P to start, which is the same across summons so you can use that time to figure out which one you have (still pretty quick but I don't see it a problem from a veteran Zappa).

I know I used to do something like this in older versions, where the summon would hit an airborne opponent and keep them in the air long enough to combo off of but this seems like it could be near universal.

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I've been looking for Zappa matches since the Japan release but they are few and far between. However, in many of them I did see, I noticed all did something that seemed very odd to me until now. Many of the players are doing naked 2D for the knockdown but not immediately summoning afterward, they would input the summon after the opponent hit the floor. I didn't see the point until watching this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuQtDqy0j4

At 24:15 against Sol, Zappa knocks down the opponent uses the summon to OTG and then immediately follows up with a ghost combo. What is semi-important here is that he uses 5P to start, which is the same across summons so you can use that time to figure out which one you have (still pretty quick but I don't see it a problem from a veteran Zappa).

I know I used to do something like this in older versions, where the summon would hit an airborne opponent and keep them in the air long enough to combo off of but this seems like it could be near universal.

Whoa that crazy looking combo right there lol

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Yeah centipede overdrive into summon into D ghost toss.

8:45: sword 63214HS zoning/semi lockdown

9:05: ghost P toss, retract, rinse and repeat zoning

4 orbs sword mixup into combo at 9:25: 2K, 6P, 2S, 6HS, 63214HS, f.S, 2HS, 6HS, 63214HS

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I love how the sword can be a threat from fullscreen. I cannot wait to come up with some new sword tech :D

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