[AC+R] Venom Discussion Thread

[TD]

l know nothing of this game haha. its been years since l played seriously :<

also, aside from the whole daa/5k mixup there, can 5k be used to poke out? since it's only a frame slower than 5p and the same frame as 2p. l just want to know

[Adelheid]

l know nothing of this game haha. its been years since l played seriously :<

also, aside from the whole daa/5k mixup there, can 5k be used to poke out? since it's only a frame slower than 5p and the same frame as 2p. l just want to know

There's pretty much never a reason to 5K to poke out. 2K, c.S, and 2D are generally what you'd want to go for for that. Maybe 6P if they IAD.

[TD]

may l ask why? edit: forget it l read the frame data myself.

Edited July 23, 2012 by TD

[Kashell]

God I feel like such a broken record. ~_~() Is poking out the term used to stop a foe from running/IAD-ing towards you?

EDIT: Nevermind. Saw some information on it on another website. Simple stuff, really.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Kashell

[Adelheid]

Lol, sorry Kashell ):

I just like 2D 'cause it's pretty fast for the range it covers, and its propensity to go under stuff.

Also, it looks really goofy.

I am the leader of the assassin's guild.

My skills are unparalleled.

Now, face my ultimate defensive technique:

Falling to the ground and flailing wildly!

[Kashell]

Lol, sorry Kashell ):

I just like 2D 'cause it's pretty fast for the range it covers, and its propensity to go under stuff.

Also, it looks really goofy.

I am the leader of the assassin's guild.

My skills are unparalleled.

Now, face my ultimate defensive technique:

Falling to the ground and flailing wildly!

Yep. I definitely lawled at that one. XD

[Adelheid]

So, I was messing around with EX Venom, trying to teach myself some Tactic Arch blockstrings and also going to collect footage for this video, when I happened to notice that balls in motion are not frozen during Tactic Arch's super flash. Now, I know Kashell's in the readership and he hasn't played much, so I'm going to talk about this simply and not just rush to the point. The opponent's state is position and state are locked during the super flash. Moves that are +0 after the super flash can't be blocked on reaction to it because their first active frame is inside the super flash, so if they weren't already blocking, well, they don't get to enter a "can block" state partway through. And there's a thing that Ky and Dizzy can do, too, where they throw a projectile and use a super, the projectile is briefly stopped but continues moving during the super flash. If it hits them during the super flash, they can't block it if they weren't already blocking; I've heard this referred to as a super flash unblockable. Trouble is, Venom seems to have had the ability for this to happen specifically removed from his supers... But not Tactic Arch. Time will tell if they fix this for AC+R. If not, we can't really start a combo this way, but it could still be an interesting trick, especially if a LOT of balls are floating around as in FB Carcass setups, and the opponent's trying to IB or slashback stuff.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Adelheid

[TittyFOFO]

I could be wrong, but I coulda swore Venom always had that ability. It just wasn't the most useful of shit in the world because of the slow speed of his projectiles. You'd have to do something like HS Stinger~FRC~Dark Angel to really make it work well, which would only even possibly be worth it if it guaranteed a kill.

[Adelheid]

I could be wrong, but I coulda swore Venom always had that ability. It just wasn't the most useful of shit in the world because of the slow speed of his projectiles. You'd have to do something like HS Stinger~FRC~Dark Angel to really make it work well, which would only even possibly be worth it if it guaranteed a kill.

Allow me to clarify. It is actually possible on his other supers, yes, but the window is very short; there's extra time where the balls don't move compared to other characters doing projectile + super stuff. However, that extra frozen time isn't there during Tactic Arch, there's more time for the balls to travel to them.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Adelheid

[Kashell]

"Now, I know Kashell's in the readership and he hasn't played much..."

Damn, do I sound that novice? *re-reads some older posts* Good lord I sound a' fool. XD I guess in comparison to the regulars on this forum, as well as on Dustloop I haven't played Guilty Gear as extensively as others. I should point out I played GGX2 a few months after it got released to the PS2. The problem was me and my brother (a fellow fighting fan) would rather play...wait for it...Super Smash Bros. Melee instead. So, GGX2 ended up collecting dust and that was that. It was BlazBlue that actually reignited my interest in Guilty Gear, and Venom was always a character I enjoyed using from the olden days. So, here I am. W00t?

Anyways, enough of a history lesson. Well done on the explanation, Adelheid. More importantly, was it you or was it someone else who said they were planning on making some Venom tutorial videos? I remember one such video being stricly for 6P>6H> S Carcass Raid. Although I guess for ACR, it would be 6K instead of 6P. XD

[Adelheid]

I was inspired by ACR's "Summer 2012" release date, but it seems like that's completely a lie. With Persona here, I'd rather release such a video when it's more timely, not "Oh here's a random tutorial for a dead game." Y'know?

[Adelheid]

Yeah, so, I guess I'll get back to work on it after the initial thrill of "YEEEAH PERSONA" wears off.

[Kashell]

Yeah, so, I guess I'll get back to work on it after the initial thrill of "YEEEAH PERSONA" wears off.

It's over already? XD

[Adelheid]

Venom changes translated by Nikki at Hitconfirm (and from Portuguese by HiagoX)

- 6P has more recovery

- 6K has slower startup and more recovery; the "basket combo" only worked for 1 rep.

- FB Carcass's ball is slower, bounces one time less compared to the 2nd loketest.

- FB Stinger's ball is also slower; doesn't look very good for pressure right now.

- Tactics Arc has more recovery.

- S Double Head Morbid causes the opponent to float on hit

Mostly nerfs, but Ogawa has described this Venom as "Still extremely strong; scarier than Slayer." I suppose the previous loctest's incarnation was just too over the top. Reduced FB Carcass madness in particular is probably for the best.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Adelheid

[Nattak]

Is it just me or does the Carcass raid S seem faster?

Only combo i have seen today is, throw, 5s,6k/6hs, cr(s). Anyone seen anything cool?

[sweetvids]

Venom changes translated by Nikki at Hitconfirm (and from Portuguese by HiagoX)

- 6P has more recovery

- 6K has slower startup and more recovery; the "basket combo" only worked for 1 rep.

- FB Carcass's ball is slower, bounces one time less compared to the 2nd loketest.

- FB Stinger's ball is also slower; doesn't look very good for pressure right now.

- Tactics Arc has more recovery.

- S Double Head Morbid causes the opponent to float on hit

Mostly nerfs, but Ogawa has described this Venom as "Still extremely strong; scarier than Slayer." I suppose the previous loctest's incarnation was just too over the top. Reduced FB Carcass madness in particular is probably for the best.

All those nerfs seem a bit knee jerk. Hopefully they buff him a bit.

[DaiAndOh]

Every early report I've read about Venom had people calling him strong. The 6k combos in loketest one, though they didn't do EXTREME damage, they ended up being terribly long, and dull for the game.

As long as you can make people respect you with your pokes and anti-air and know how put the pressure on, the character will be good. And his options got further expanded (aka infinity x infinity) with adding in his old formations and giving him the option to trade meter for balls.

[sweetvids]

Yeah, wasn't digging the 6K combos, but am pretty disappointed about less bounces on FB balls as well as Stinger and CR reportedly being slower.

[Adelheid]

In fairness FB stinger aim still looks stronger than it has any right to be. That move is... Well.

It's Carcass that lost bounces, not both FB balls. They probably thought of it as necessary as, well, "Danmaku" was pretty silly. Adding recovery to Tactics Arch seems to have made it so that people don't want to use it, which is sad but also what I expected to see.

More than anything else, the tools he had in loketest 2 were, well, ridiculous. Venom does not seem weak and I will be happy to keep playing him. He still has 6P to give coverage to an important new (old) angle of coverage, FB Stinger is still a very silly move even if it doesn't grant you pressure for free, and he still seems to be able to shut people down with the right reads. That's enough. He doesn't need to be the best character to be viable.

I'm really excited for getting pressure for sniping someone with a random FB stinger aim, instead of saving it for clutch game-enders.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Adelheid

[sweetvids]

That's a shame about Tactics arch, but it's still early and Venom I think is the most changed character. From the footage I've seen, people are working with ghetto combos since the CR loop mainstay is gone. The FB stinger looks pretty sick though, and the 6P being pretty diesel in terms of angle and upper body invuln.

Been playing Venom for a long time, would've liked to see him be godlike for once.

[Redefinition]

1:38 (corner) Throw, c.S(1), 6K, carcass, c.S(1), 6K, S ball, c.S(2), 6K, dbc.
14:02 Throw c.S(1), H ball, c.S(1), 6K, dbc into ball summon for a nice three-ball set.

Not sure how much of that first combo works without the burst, but if that combos that looks like it'll be our BnB in the corner. Nothing else super interesting to note in the recent vids, in terms of combos.

Also that fucking clip with FB carcass, lol.

EDIT:

1:08 (corner) FB MS, c.S(1), 6K, carcass, dash, j.K, j.S, j.H, j.D, land c.S(1), j.S, j.H does about 40-50% on Dizzy with a very moderate amount of guard bar.
3:08 proof that throw, dash c.S(1), 6K, carcass works midscreen.
7:26 DBC loop still works

On a different note, the Venom player in this video looks really, really good. Anyone have any idea who that might be?

3:55 6K can combo off of c.S(3) [into carcass, etc.]

(What's with Sol in this video having George's voice?)

(By the way, if the length of this post is a little unwieldy, I can always just make it so that the vids are links instead of embedded.) Edited October 5, 2012 by Redefinition

[Krusiv]

Will there be a new thread for AC+R videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WKhLCJGZ5s

1:56 Gura (HOS) vs FT (Venom)

3:43 Hegi (Millia) vs FT (Venom)

[Redefinition]

Man that Venom really likes hitting buttons on wakeup, damn.

[axel]

Is it mentioned anywhere that Venom's j.HS has longer untechable time on hit, kinda like Faust's j.D in AC+R? I have been seeing Venom performing a double jump air combo and ending with a j.HS knockdown from really high above the ground. It definitely won't knockdown back in AC so that'll be a really huge buff for Venom.

[Redefinition]

Is it mentioned anywhere that Venom's j.HS has longer untechable time on hit, kinda like Faust's j.D in AC+R? I have been seeing Venom performing a double jump air combo and ending with a j.HS knockdown from really high above the ground. It definitely won't knockdown back in AC so that'll be a really huge buff for Venom.

I'm pretty sure there were quite a few things that changed from loketest 2 to release, and I'm pretty sure that loketest 2 was the last to release notes on what changed. Once we get our hands on the game we can figure out all the changes not mentioned there. But, yeah, it seems to knockdown from much higher up than it does in AC now.