[GGAC+R] Robo-Ky Changes and Discussion!

[iora]

yep, just seeing when you wanna go for dust, rather than 6h

[M.Song]

so i found out on most of the cast (excluding potemkin but haven't tested on everyone)

if you do a command throw and steal 0 meter (3 hits) if you hold forward, you can get a close slash -> 6p

it works on some chars when you steal the next amount of meter.. which i think is a 7 hit command throw (only tested on bridget)

ok so the hold forward for close slash also doesn't work on roboky

also on some chars in 80+ heat, you can connect 3 hit command throw -> 5p -> 6p

i haven't tested this on many chars

when i do this i can push a char from starting position into the corner

but because of how much time i have to run, you don't get very many oki options

also something i probably should have already known but just verified

when you do tk dp, if you have upward momentum and you RC the first hit.. you will continue to rise

if you don't have any upward momentum and you RC you will fall pretty fast

trying to think of some situational gimmicks for the 1 more hit needed to kill using this

Edited October 1, 2013 by M.Song

[M.Song]

ok so after further testing... on a full command throw (14 hits) you can connect 5k on the following chars

ino

bridget

justice

may (c.s followup after 5k in corner only)

eddie (corner only and after 5l c.s too far away for anything to connect besides punching super)

baiken

ky (same conditions as may)

johnny (same as may)

millia (corner only)

anji (corner only)

slayer

zappa

its not always consistent but you can mash really hard on k after the throw and it'll connect on those characters

also some chars feels like the timing is easier than others

[iora]

so woould it be like....

5k 5h frc c.s etc

or

5k c.s etc

or

5k c.s 2p c.s etc

or

5k c.s L3Horse 5h frc c.s etc

or like whats good? sounds like a good find either way, msong da god

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Good info!

Look what GAKU has been up to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gztOhvbahHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IQNrKk-_W0

Can't take much more of the wait for NA update, probably will cave soon.

[iora]

i need to arrange my money since i need a ps3 for bbcp anyway, i might get it soon.

this shit is driving me insane though. WE SHOULDA BEEN ROBOTING IT UP IN SPRING DAMN IT ><

[M.Song]

i was actually just doing 5k c.s 6p for the horizontal push

it doesn't give you that much time, but you can squeeze in a lvl 3 bazooka from a distance

i'll see what other options are available and what not

[iora]

lets do this. xbox has been saved from what i hear

i'll go crazy over the weekend, and report my findings

[Dr. Stormlocke]

Finally! I got to play a little bit at Shtkn's house. You guys need to get on that Level 3 heat punch spam super headbutt loop vs JO. Shit is too fun!

I'll probably just mash training mode when I have some free time this weekend, but it would be great to get in some games vs you guys too. Hit me up if you see me on!

[iora]

i think we tried before and socal to jersey was booty

but ill try again lol

what robots are coming to nec? lets meet up and have a drink/talk shop/mash/be robots irl?

edit: i will have some 'lets burn all the shit to get all the damage' combos for you guys soon

i didnt look at notation, but i crossed 300 more than once vs order sol without silly starters.

Edited October 11, 2013 by iora

[M.Song]

nagao posted some new +R vids

http://www.youtube.com/user/nagao08/videos

[iora]

side note that in playing last night, i found out that level 1 air dp is NOT AN OVERHEAD

so if you are hoping for dat last chance mixup, make sure you got 10% at least lol

[M.Song]

so now that some more people have gotten to use him what are your impressions of him

i haven't had a chance to play people since the last set of videos i uploaded, but i still think he was better off in AC

[Dr. Stormlocke]

so now that some more people have gotten to use him what are your impressions of him

i haven't had a chance to play people since the last set of videos i uploaded, but i still think he was better off in AC

I've been playing for a few days now, and honestly I couldn't be happier. I understand where you are coming from RE: his command grab, but I think there are so many other benefits, at least when applied to my playstyle:

*c.5s into 6p gatling* I think this is really great. Now we have the option to push further to the corner, or utilize effectively while in the corner. M. Song I know we've spoken in the past about how you don't like Robo's air combos because they have the option to tech, and generally you favor building tension and keeping your opponent locked down. I too am annoyed when I dump all my tension and the opponent then techs in mid-air, while I am meterless. The great thing about this gatling, highlighted by the fantastic Nagao vids, is how this can be capitalized on in the corner: 2k, 2s, 5hs (FRC), run, c.5s, 6p, run, c.5s, 6p, c.5s, 6p, 2d. The following actually takes so long, that by the time you put down a mat, tension restrictions are gone and the combo paid for itself in superbar! Not only that, the opponent remains cornered, and you are gaining meter right next to them! You can also set the loop up in corner via non-CH Robo-Dash, FD, run up. EDIT: Sadly this might be character specific. #of reps in loop, etc.

*TK SRK* Yes, it is susceptible to FD, but this badboy is a late game finisher! While many of you don't use Det. Mode, the tension building aspect of the super has great synergy for a last second corner TK SRK, ~ missile loop. I've ended rounds quite a few times, not even using Det. Mode, just by banking on this. It is just another great mixup tool that the opponent has to respect.

*Forcebreak* This is so insanely fast now. I want to record a shitty cellphone camera video sometime soon of the myriad of gimmicks that are possible now. You can get away with truly retarded stuff because of the earlier cancel capabilities of this move.

*80%+/Level 3 Heat 2s* In high heat mode if you land a 2k,~2s you can confirm into an aircombo. For ZERO tension. This is good, period. I realize managing your heat is a pain in the ass, but this buff is definitely welcomed.

*Command Grab* As stated, damage nerf is unfortunate. In my playstyle however, landing this means I am almost assured a Punch Spam super juggle until I explode from Det. Mode. No more having to RC the end of the command grab and go into Punch Spam! Wahoo!

I will say however I am a little underwhelmed by 80%+/Level 3 Heat 2hs Knee Rockets. Generally, you will use one, then immediately need to cool off with 6hs. This leads to a fairly predictable pattern that is easy to punish/evade etc. I have won a few rounds with these though, and it's always hilarious.

More later. Happy Roboting!

Edited October 18, 2013 by Dr. Stormlocke

[iora]

the fact i have more combos in heat into 6h is a buff big enough to make me love him again in itself.

fan of:

2s in heat overall

command grab, punch super, let em drop so you have heat mode on, oki oki

heat normals > 6h stuff

air dp ender on air combos

new hs color <3

air dash timing after FB

not sure if this is new to plus r, but i just found it and love it:

2k into 6h gatling

level 2 horse CH

not a fan of:

lack of dmg on command throw

robo dash seems to lose to things it never used to lose to before

level 3 horse CH

heated 2h always doing a knockdown (seemingly) air/ground hit... regular or counter.... never manage to get anything off this move

the input of the FB being changed

===========

random notes:

2h CH (regular) - can follow up with grounded c.s into air combo, or 5h frc into air combo if you high jump after. 180~ or 200~ respectively vs axl

c.s as a ground-to-air hits SO much higher than i imagine it will. gotta get used to it. so sickkkk.

i never had to do TK DP before, but i found that doing 693H is the easiest for me. just ride the side of the stick. i have no idea why that registers as a fucking dp, but i'll take it haha

getting the dash f.s after midscreen heat c.s f.s 6h is fucking weird timing to me, but its possible for midscreen combo (1 normal of choice, c.s f.s 6h dash f.s L3Horse 5h frc etc etc)

cant get anything good after hitting with TK DP for mixup. best i could figure was TK DP frc j.d DP. if they DONT tech and you do the TK DP VERY HIGH on the character you can land and pick up with 5k c.s though. if you hit where this would work, and theyn mash tech, you can just forward jump air throw reset. meh overall. need better tech

gotta re-evaluate how much i wanna do 5h frc in ground combos. seeming less and less worth the meter unless i have 76+ so i can whatever ground chain 5h frc L3Bazooka for pressure reset. overall just dont feel its worth it anymore. seems like c.s 6p is almost always a better option since heat mode is so good now.

Edited October 17, 2013 by iora

[M.Song]

nice to get other people's inputs

yeah i admit there are some things that are growing on me with +R roboky, but the nerf to command throw is a huge setback since it makes a lot of setups worthless essentially (all setups that involve meter gain penalties like fb and frc)

i should have said this in my earlier post

although i only played against two chars in +R (i haven't even played much against some of the cast in regular AC tho...)

i feel like the changes given to the rest of the cast generally give him either harder matchups or in cases of character nerfs, they weren't nerfed to the point where roboky would actually be in an advantage

of course i've only gotten the chance to play two chars offline: dizzy and faust

but in the case of dizzy vs roboky

i've never felt this helpless in this matchup before

dizzy gaining full control of the screen makes it really hard to find opportunities to lay mats and gain meter

also in AC, i felt that it was worth it at times to take a hit from a laser fish to get out a lvl 3 missile, since she really couldn't get much off of it before.. but now that is super unfavorable

outside of using 80 heat in the corner similar to how dizzy can use fb bubble from a distance as a defensive tool, i feel like none of roboky's changes actually do anything for him in this matchup

faust vs roboky

i mean if you saw some of the videos i uploaded you know what kind of brutal murder i faced

his items are too good now and some of his normals that were already better than yours got buffed

something about fb pogo got nerfed so that j.hs can actually beat it now, but generally speaking i don't think you are supposed to be challenging faust in the air with j.hs anyway

i really wish i could play against other chars

maybe its just because the only times i got to play were against retarded bad matchups, but i would really be interested in hearing how he fights against the chars that got nerfed

i would really love feedback on how the fight felt for you personally from AC to +R for slayer and eddie

i would like to know if those char nerfs were enough to actually make the fight less annoying.. or if it doesn't make a difference

also i would like to know how he does against anji and i-no since i was thinking those two chars were possibly his best matchups in AC

and then it would be great if you guys could tell me about potemkin now and any justice experience

[iora]

uhhh lemme think about who i played so far:

vs slayer - i suck at this match up, and still do, but i feel slayer gets less damage on random hits, so its more forgiving. the L3Horse CH change gets me fucked a lot since i seem to get that a lot. my main source of damage in that matchup improved (ground pokes) and i feel 2s in heat is a really good footsie tool vs him if you stay far enough back to not get murdered by FB dandy. i like comboing the slayer hitbox, so overall its just that slayers char design mindfucks me, but it feels a little better than in ac.

vs potemkin - i prefer HOS vs Robo in this matchup in ac, and still do in +r. throw invul command throw is helpful though. beyond that i dont play it much different and i dont have enough experience to say really.

vs zappa - very little ac zappa experience, but one of our locals sub'd him and is training mode a bit. i do not know how to deal with sword. but the heat game and his overall far range neutral seem reasonable for this match up. he can run under missiles, which sucks, but centipedes getting less orbs is really nice. gotta do a lot more 5k oki than i like. you can oki 5p and get it to whiff so you can block reversal super, which is cool. 2s in heat hits in a good spot, and steam frc helped me get in a bit. we recorded a set, but seems to have been lost. if my friend finds it, ill let you know so you can see it.

vs jam - this matchup.... fugh.... in all fairness overall nerfs make the neutral easier, but if he gets the knockdown into fb cards, you are in serious trouble unless you can get a 5h frc to switch momentum, or get a dp to hit. her new cards are really strong, and the invul they have make a LOT of optiojns REALLY risky. and robo's weight seems to allow some serious combos to work (seen in some jp vids) so... ugh. this matchup is probably just as frustrating as you found in in ac at a minimum. this i should have some match vids for you, as we also recorded this but this didnt get lost. :D

vs johnny - robo dash doesn't beat killer joker anymore. fucking made me cry. robo has options vs coins (6p and 6h) and more ways into knockdown (c.s into 6p and ch f.s) so the neutral is interesting. smart corner pressure is hard to get out of, but the same goes for you since his reversals are like.... KJ and DAA. delay get up is really nice hear sometimes. don't get CH by that stupid hotenjin looking kick.

vs eddie - i sucked at this MU, but it seems overall better. learn to IB the new pressure, and you basically only got improvements. eddie lost a lot, while robo didnt lose so much. but robo has new tools to get more damage of random hits i think, so it will feel easier. the buzzsaw fuzzy shit though.... if you cant IB it for the meter, its frustrating lol. probably prefer HOS vs Robo just for SV alone. not sure yet.

take all of this with a grain of salt, since i think you guys are better robo's than i am, but thats what i got so far for you. ^^

[iora]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i90n83d0FK4 - some of my casual matches vs a local jam

st1ckbug

if you got advice about my play, let me know

bad habits i know about : blockstrings into bazooka too much, dropped combos, i dont do 2s into 5h frc stuff, i use 2k a little too much i think.

but most of that video is my normal level of play i would say, so :D

[M.Song]

stormlocke:

yeah the 6p corner loop seems to be highly character specific in terms of optimal starters and reps

regular weight class combos don't seem to apply because it seems to be more hitbox oriented rather than gravity oriented

iora:

so stuff i've noticed

earlier in the set you weren't chaining 2s into 2d, but you were doing it more freuqently as the set went on

there were times you did 5k c.s 6hs at low heats when i think that c.s into 6p would have been better because of the knockdown

consider doing punching super after pony instead of 5hs. it costs a little more meter, but its actually easier to land because of shorter startup and i think jam is a char that you can do pony -> punching super -> followup from any amount of heat because of her vertical air hurtbox

i noticed a lot of times you were really far away from jam but didn't lay a mat

also, there are times you are doing bazooka when you probably shouldn't

like off of 5k and the round 19:36 in when you got 5k c.s and it looks like any of the normal gatlings would have killed, but you did bazooka and had to work for that last hit again

in this matchup (at least in AC) using 2k a lot isn't too big of a problem

its ok as oki since it goes under her dp

you certainly aren't using it any more than i am.... and i also mash 2k hard

i would also suggest that you cut back on the jumping a bit

i believe that roboky has one of the worst sets of air to ground normals in the game and against jam who has alright AA and a parry and better air to air normals.. usually ends up with you in a disadvantage

but yeah dropped combos are just something that need to be worked on

as for 2s into 5hs frc.... i actually rarely do that anymore

i feel like any meter i have is better spent on punching supers and dp rc/frc rather than getting some extra damage off 2s (unless its going to kill)

Edited October 18, 2013 by M.Song

[iora]

thanks m.song - whats an exmaple go to DP frc combo for example?

[M.Song]

so far the best thing i found midscreen and 2 hits is actually just dp frc jump j.d air dp

this is the easiest to do, most universal and actually most damaging

just make sure you jump towards them so you are facing the right direction incase you crossed them over with the dp because of carryover running momentum

in the corner you can go straight into a missile loop

assuming you had about 85% meter or less and can land the false

the midscreen 80+ heat combo that gaku was doing in those vids of 80+ heat air dp land dp super -> something seems to be restricted to heavier weight classes

also on those chars you can do air dp -> punching super... but they are too high up to land the followup on

another thing that i'm still trying to figure out is how to land only the 2nd hit

if you land only the 2nd hit of the air dp, they fly are about level with you instead of way above you, which can lead to some bigger damage combos since you don't burn your jump instantly

also if you do it running or off an air dash there is a chance to land only the first hit... in which case they fall down too far away to land anything

i'm still figuring out stuff with this move since i don't know how this move interacts with all the char's standing hitboxes with varying timings and running speeds

one last thing is that if you do a dp while you are falling from your jump and rc the first hit, you will land really fast like when HOS frc's his dp action charge

if you are in 80+ heat and it hit, you can connect with c.s and combo

and i'm still trying to figure out what you can do out of heat on hit

[iora]

i would imagine 5k would be a good out-of-heat option for your final note.

[Kikuichimonji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i90n83d0FK4 - some of my casual matches vs a local jam

st1ckbug

if you got advice about my play, let me know

bad habits i know about : blockstrings into bazooka too much, dropped combos, i dont do 2s into 5h frc stuff, i use 2k a little too much i think.

but most of that video is my normal level of play i would say, so :D

Stop doing wakeup throw so often, or at least option select it with 6P/5K/cl.s. You will DIE if you wakeup throw against a good player and get a blocked 5HS that you don't FRC. It's -17 or something, you get knocked down -> braindead 50/50, or they just take 50% life if they're Slayer or Kliff.

The fact that you blockstring into Bazooka isn't necessarily bad, it's the way that you do it that's bad. Something like 5k, wait, 5k, 5k, 5k, bazooka is really good because if they get hit by 5k they will usually continue blocking. Other ways to end strings: jump cancel into tk rocket, end in 5P -> 5P/f.s/2k frame trap, end in cancel to horsie (really good even at level 2), 5k -> command grab, jump cancel jump back j.s, or 5k 5k 5k 2d.

You don't use FD enough. If you can re-establish spacing, 15% meter is totally worth it.

Also you don't TK rocket. It stops almost every aerial approach and most standing pokes.

You can use Robo Dash after some knockdowns to blow through most reversals for a combo. It gets blown up by Gold Burst though.

If he wants you to stay still at mid range, just jump back and do an early j.s. Most characters can't do much about it. J.s, when done really early, will counter-hit a lot of stuff that's not upper body invincible.

The wakeup uppercuts are really bad. If Jam does IAD backwards, that's definitely not when you want to uppercut. Robo's uppercut is really strong, but you can't just rely on it solo. You don't measure risk/reward well. Like if Jam has no meter or cards, and you have 80% life, that's exactly the time to not wakeup uppercut. If you want to do something, do wakeup backstep, wakeup FD, or 1 frame jump.

Honestly though the biggest thing is the complete lack of level 3 missile. You know just how ridiculous the move is, right? It's THE reason to play Robo Ky.

You need to mess around with his delayed wakeup.

Robo 5K can't be countered by Jam. Wakeup parry is a big deal, you need to stop it. She can just OS it and see if you did something dumb.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Kikuichimonji

[M.Song]

in the corner you can do throw frc robodash on some of the chars (female chars + bridget - aba it seems.. didn't test them all)

its really hard.... i was just testing it out with 2p vs mode and macro glitch

off of this you can do like 2 reps of 6p loop it seems

another thing about 6p loop is that on some chars you can start with 6p then do c.s 6p or you can choose to just start with c.s 6p

if you start with 6p it seems like you generally get more 6p out of the combo but it does less damage (seems to be single digit differences)

so on those chars it becomes situational if you want to sacrifice the damage to build up heat and what not

this loop is driving me nuts

there are too many variables with it to figure out how to optimize it

[M.Song]

that ain vs gaku set posted on the video posting thread is very interesting

Takadanobaba Mikado

2013/10/17 GGXX AC+R Mikado stream - Ain(KY) vs GAKU(RO) ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LquwXyK0lwc

i haven't watched many match vids recently, but i find his heat management to be amazing