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Dr. Stormlocke

[GGAC+R] Robo-Ky Changes and Discussion!

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that combo :0

 

yea the initial hit is the real issue, but you dont really need high meter necessarily? 30 or 40 percent is fine to get them to the corner plus a robo dash ender leaves you with above 50. Its probably only viable for a punish combo like you mentioned, but what are the other damaging options? I only recently started messing with crouching confirms so I'm curious. Especially midscreen

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i lent someone my console so i can't test damage on +R, but i can still test on ps2 AC if you want since damage values of moves haven't changed

 

although i said crouching, none of these combos i listed actually have to have them be in crouching states for them to work

 

100% meter

then you can do a pony loop on people.  its difficult but you can do lvl 3 pony then 5k/5p c.s pony, then the rest of the loop is easy.  pony loops have lots of horizontal push and after 4 ponies i think you are looking at around 250 or so damage 

works better midscreen than cornered against most chars (i'd put this at equivalent difficulty as the c.s bazooka.. people don't have to be crouching but high heat+100% meter and getting the hit is hard along with the meterless relaunch)

 

from 60 - 100% meter

pony -> punching super

after punching super from high meter you have two options, you can go into air combo for bigger damage, sacrificing knockdown or you go for something into c.s 6p sacrificing damage (you should be able to use 2s as a launch into full air combo)

you'll get really good damage from the punching super followup because you won't have to do many punches before you get to wallbounce threshold

(works poorly in the corner)

 

exactly 50% meter

just go straight into punching super, also works poorly in the corner, but this time they won't be as high off the ground, so you might not be able to use 2s as a launcher depending on your position, but stuff like 5k c.s should work just fine

if you do this you have to decide going in if you want the knockdown or damage, since you will end with 0 meter

 

< 50% meter

if you know that your opponents can't mash out at what the computer does when you set it to mash out at max speed, you can go into 6hs, then during stagger you can do 2k 2s into air combo

at midscreen it pushes to the corner, and if you end with a missile loop, it should break 200 damage

 

there might be better stuff out there, but in the specific cases of low meter, midscreen, high heat, getting out super high damage output is just not really possible.

 

another thing is that i haven't really bothered learning roboky's +R changes for trying to improve damage output.  it seemed too difficult and too situational to try and go for, but maybe those changes can up his damage

 

i dunno if this will help or not

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I knew about the pony combo and the <50% meter stuff, but i rarely use punch super so I'd never really considered it, hmm. With pony loops, aren't they non-universal? In heat 5K c.S pony 5K c.S pony (c.S pony)xN only works on a little over a third of the cast afaik. At one point I'd figured out how to do them against the entire cast in the corner by mixing in some 6P loop elements, but I was being extra smart that day and didn't write any of it down.

 

The reason i like the bazooka loop i guess is that it's /not/ horse loop; it works on everyone and puts you in a good position in terms of meter and spacing and everything. The damage is more of a bonus. The combos you posted might be more damaging but aren't really restricted to crouching, so those are what you'd normally go for off a hitconfirm, logically.

 

Then again, with the buffs everyone else got in this game maybe RK doesn't have the time to be fooling around with non-max damage :(

 

I'll mess with those punch super combos you posted, thanks

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pony loop is pretty universal midscreen, its the corner when you actually run into more problems

once you get the right height, all you really need to do is c.s pony

the part i find to be tricky on pony loops is at the end

on some chars, once you do f.s instead of c.s, you can't get that last pony depending on how many previous reps you did

 

the one unfortunate thing about punching super is that they changed the heat  gain on start up so its really retarded now

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I always had the issue of characters floating too high after c.S so the pony whiffs, maybe I just need to adjust my timing and delay the c.S. And yea, generally when i do it I only do 2 or 3 c.S pony loops before ending in c.S 6P or something. You can actually loop lvl2 ponies on standing characters too, linking 5K afterward. The prorate makes it not really worth it though.

 

By really retarded do you mean retarded good, i dont really know the details

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This place seems to be pretty dead, but I'll have to take my chances.

 

Does heat mode add blockstun, if so, how much? Is is a constant value or does it depend on the move or it's level?

 

Same thing for hitstun. I am a player who really likes to go for the heat mode and knowing the above information would greatly help me in developing heatmode strategies.

 

There also seems to be almost no robo discussion for AC+R, what happened here?

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This place seems to be pretty dead, but I'll have to take my chances.

 

Does heat mode add blockstun, if so, how much? Is is a constant value or does it depend on the move or it's level?

 

Same thing for hitstun. I am a player who really likes to go for the heat mode and knowing the above information would greatly help me in developing heatmode strategies.

 

There also seems to be almost no robo discussion for AC+R, what happened here?

 

To answer your query, heat mode gives you the following buffs:

 

- Your hits add 6 frames of hitstun to opponent.

- Your hits are untechable/unrecoverable 8 frames longer.

- You have a power modifier of 1.1.

- Your normals do chip damage!

 

That's it. Robo's 5p is great even w/o high heat mode, but you'll see a lot of people fishing with it in high heat mode. I think this tends to confuse people, who incorrectly assume there is a buff in the blockstun. You ARE doing chip damage on block though, which can be handy.

 

As far as your heatmode strategies are concerned, good luck, share if you'd like. I generally dump high heat mode via 5p~Level 3 Steam loops. Doom 2hs knee rockets are not very good, but 2s launching in high heat is great, just have to be careful not to use j.hs in the subsequent aircombo.

 

And yes, it is rather dead here. Can't really tell you why.

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Why dead? Xrd hype, people found twitter, and i main HOS now in plus r myself. Robo forums were really never super active with talk in the past few years anyway though.

 

When in heat, i enjoy 5s© 5s(f) 6h dash 5s(f) 6h dash (level 3 horse) into go wild. not sure if the old ac combos of heat into dust work anymore, but level 3 steam is a huge move to mess around with.

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Stuff

 

Thanks for the information. It's really good to know that heat mode doesn't increase blockstun as I found some decent frametraps using Level 3 heat but wasn't sure if they would work in case heat would raise blockstun.

Does the power modifier simply mean 10% more damage?

 

In heat mode I have certain strats that I use atm. 5k x n > Level 5 bazooka > repeat once or twice > 2S for oki. Or the Level 3 horse loop. I've managed to pull off 323 damage on Slayer with this, it's insane. So far I think Robo only received buffs in +R.

 

I haven't heard of 5p~Level 3 heat loop before, care to extend on that?

 

Where would be a place to find more information or discussion about Robo Ky for +R? Trying to find stuff by myself but it's kinda slow and I don't really have too much time to be in the lab all the time. I used to be hyped about Xrd too until I learned that Robo is not in yet and I lost interest.

 

Oh and Dr. Stormlocke, huge thanks for the amazing guide you wrote for AC. It's what got me into Robo Ky in the first place and I still return to it sometimes and I always learn something new. Good job!

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guessing 5p lvl 3 steam loops would just be like it sounds, lvl 3 steam causes stagger, so you should be able to run up and 5p them again

 

i don't think there is any place you could find more information about roboky in english than here, so just post your questions and someone should be able to get back to you within a day

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Ok then here goes:

 

I'm having terrible problems against Slayer. His pressure is just so hard to deal with. I can't really try to poke him out or keep him pressured because of his new FB Dandy that allows him to easily get in.

And I'm having trouble against the cross up dash -> throw mixup. It seems the timing to properly stuff is with a 5K or 5P without hitting the wrong direction is quite hard. Would I be better of just FD jumping out of it?

 

Is it doable to mash out of Bite or 2H stagger in time to not get followed up?

 

@iora

 

Thanks for the link, I'm sure it will be helpful.

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slayer shouldn't be able to combo you after a bite unless he frcs anymore

if he doesn't frc the bite, you need to mash harder out of stagger if you are still getting comboed

2hs is a little different, and you can pretty much expect to eat a combo after getting hit by it

i personally would not recommend trying to jump away from slayer if he's up in your face, especially from a dandy step

he can easily do the kick followup and force you to burn your meter to block

he has anti-airs to deal with any air normal you throw out at him and unless you use the forcebreak, he can still chase you down using any of your normal air movement options

 

a few things to keep in mind:

if they do 6k, you can react with 5hs and as long as they don't do the feint you should get a counterhit and can do a meterless followup (kinda hard tho)

if you can predict a dandy step, lvl 3 pony is good and (but if you do it too late, i think all of the followups beat pony)

6hs can be grabbed from pretty far away

same for j.hs if they are trying to harass you with that move

pile bunker (dandy + p) is easily punishable on block, depending on the range you can do like throw -> bazooka or 5k c.s 6p

similar for slayer's 2d

 

there doesnt seem to be that much footage of +R roboky vs slayer that's as readily available as in AC, but lots of the neutral carries over from AC imo

 

in terms of the matchup in general, its not too different from AC, you just have to go into the fight knowing that almost everything you do will straight up lose to the slayer.  just be patient and wait for slayer to slip up

slayer does have some easily punishable moves once blocked and generally speaking, his mixup game is not really all that great

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Good stuff, very helpful. I'll practice mashing a bit better since I can always react to the bite in time to start mashing early, but I seem to suck at mashing as I always eat a full combo afterwards.

 

By far my biggest issue is the dash -> throw thing he has. It's tough because he can time it to make my moves whiff and is really hard to react to even when I am constantly looking for it. What would be the best way to cover that move?

Does Slayer have any normals other than 2D that I should expect to be able to punish when blocked?

Is it ever a good idea to backdash against Slayer? Most of his moves seem to catch backdashes really well.

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if the slayer you are fighting against likes just dash back and forth then throw/bite without pressing buttons between, you can try throwing out your command throw

it has a larger grab range than a regular throw and its throw invincible on startup

another thing is that if you feel that they are going to throw you, don't be afraid to do lvl 3 dp and rc it before you leave the ground if its blocked

you lose a lot of meter from this, but you should be able to pressure slayer for a bit from this and reset the pacing of the match

 

 

but usually there are usually signs that people want a ground throw

from what i noticed, its usually something like awkward pauses in their offense (although this could also be ppl trying to frame trap you)

they go in a little closer with their spacing than they normally go

or they stop and walk

 

as for backdashing slayer's stuff

overall roboky's backdash is pretty good, he can avoid a lot of things, but most of slayer's moves are active too long and will catch you out of your backdash

the only moves i like to backdash against are his 6k, 5d and his 6hs

 

also if slayer has 50% meter he can just dead on time you on reaction to your backdash if he catches it early enough... really annoying

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Thanks for the tips.

Overall what do you think of the Robo vs Slayer matchup? I find it to be incredibly hard as Slayer has control 90% of the time and he can easily get half of your off a single random hit while Robo is forced to play a really good oki game.

 

When I play my other characters (Faust, Justice) I don't seem to have much trouble against Slayer so it has to be something about Robo that's causing me issues.

 

Should I use moves such as 2K and 2S less against Slayer to avoid moves such as 6K and 2H?

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if you think you are having difficulties in a matchup, its not you its roboky

 

i honestly feel that despite slayer's lower damage output, the tools they gave him more than compensates and makes this even harder than before

 

stuff like special cancelable 6hs allows slayer to harass you in the corner from more ranges than before

easier input for bite allows less execution heavy players to bdc bite you (even tho this is something that you should have to have watched out for anyway)

new dandy steps to give more space control and with ex access to a new reversal

 

and then there are roboky nerfs along with system mechanic changes that really don't help this matchup

 

its not unwinable, but i feel like i have to put in even more work into winning this fight than in ac.... and that was already a lot of work

 

also try not to get into a habit of using 2k a lot 

its good against some chars, but there are a lot of chars that have easy counterhit moves for big damage, like slayer's 2hs

 

if they aren't at max range for 2hs, it is possible to react to it with a punching super

2hs has 13 frames of startup and punching super has only 2, so it is possible to catch him out of it, it helps that 2hs's startup doesn't look like anything else he has

and with punching super, you get really good damage for the meter you spent and a knockdown, so imo its the best super he's got

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Yes that's exactly how I feel, his lesser damage output barely makes a difference when his tools are that much better. FB Dandy step is a really dangerous reversal and gets me a lot.

 

The Slayer I play against is not using BDC yet so I don't need to worry about it just yet, but I do get bitten a lot.

 

I'll try not to use 2K as much. I'm so used to using it a lot from other matchups so 2HS kills me.

 

How do you feel Robo Ky was nerfed? From what I've seen it seems to be mostly buffs. His heatmode is better now, c.S -> 6P gatling is amazing and I love the new command throw even with the damage nerf. The new FB is also much faster and TK DP can be useful on certain situations. Is the nerf mostly about Robo getting less new tools than other characters instead of being actually nerfed?

 

Thanks again for all the tips. Hopefully these will improve the skill level in our local GG group. The better I get at this game the more I appreciate it.

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in terms of how roboky got nerfed, some of this may just be the way i view the character, but i honestly feel that with everything out there along with him not getting changes to deal with all the other char's changes he got hit pretty hard

 

so starting with the obvious one, 5d

this one is straight up a nerf.. 4f slower, easier to block on reaction and makes it so you are unable to combo into it as easily with 80+ heat

 

then there is the input change on the fb

while the move itself got buffed, the fact that they changed the input on it means he lost access to instant fb -> air missile

while this wasn't seen in regular gameplay, it means its more difficult to do a very specific combo he had before

 

next are how system changes in my opinion screwed over roboky

gold burst no longer giving knockdown unless its a counterhit

sure people might say oh do you want to eat unblockable after unblockable from eddie after a gold burst?

but really... when you eat a gold burst, you kind of deserved whatever comes next.  and against everyone else roboky has better options from knockdown than most of the rest of the cast, but he really can't capitalize off a burst tech as well as most of the other cast due to poor air to ground normals and the fact that on the ground, he doesn't have good normals to use to force his way in

 

also the extra life thing

every char got extra life, but most of the other chars do more damage than in AC to make up for it

the other chars that got general damage nerfs were really the super hard hitters in AC and so even if they lost damage, they can still easily kill in 3 combos

outside of lvl 3 heat, roboky doesn't really have any new fancy combo options that do more damage than before, so you can view that as an overall damage nerf

 

character changes that i think are nerfs

counterhit pony:

lvl 3 counterhit.... the wallbounce is so much worse than the pop up from before. there are so many ranges where you literally can't get any follow up after the wall bounce and the options you get are kinda situational, considering the AC one had pretty universal followups and really big damage

 

lvl 2 i guess is a buff... but good luck hitting with a lvl 2 pony, much less getting a counterhit with the move... i think since +R came out on console i've gotten only one counterhit lvl 2 pony.. and its not like you get very good damage afterwords

 

2s in 80 heat

i think this is worse for him than before

while there are times i appreciate the extra damage when i have 0 meter, there are more times when i end up overheating because i used the move

while its true that it is my own fault for overheating, why would you take away the only normal that gives knockdown to a character

and when i have full meter i can get more damage off a regular 2s anyway than the super high bounce that is forced on you with the heat

i really hate this change and it really screws with my play style... which is why i view this as a nerf

 

2hs

similar to 2s, but the benefits are actually decent, so its not as bad

but losing the ability to control airspace with 2hs when you are high heat sucks, at least it doesn't disappear when you do overheat on its way down

 

command throw:

i hate what they did to the move

i think i might be in the minority here when i say this, but the move sucks now

i hate the new trajectory they are thrown at and the damage nerf was too extreme

there is literally no reason to be afraid of this move anymore due to fact that the damage is so bad and they only have a mediocre mixup to worry about

 

and yeah it doesn't help that pretty much every matchup is now a bad matchup for him

but that's due to the fact that he really didn't have that many good matchups in AC, then all the chars who were even/good with him got new tools that are really hard for roboky to deal with and then all the chars that beat him before in AC didn't get nerfed to the point where the matchup is even or even close to it

 

take from this post what you will

i am really bitter about what happened to roboky in +R and i think he's a really bad character

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heat 2s is really nice once you adjust your heat gameplay, and i like keeping meterless combos until i get above 50, so then i can do really high dmg stuff with the meter. just my feeling though, but i adjusted to the new heat changes and how his heat gauge got adjusted well.

 

and he DID get air dp, which is hella nice.

 

and post command throw we do get the option to sacrifice damage for good positioning and to be in 80 heat....

 

he is worse overall as a character but the changes were good imo. i like this iteration a lot in terms of fun factor and options, but he probably is a lil worse overall for it.

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It's hard to disagree with your opinions. The only thing I disagree with is the command throw thing, but I can understand how losing setups like Robo Dash FRC -> Command Throw or any tension penalty setup. And there were plenty of those.

 

I'm glad there is someone else who doesn't like the heat 2S. In heat my only option for knockdown is the horsey which is really easy to land in heat but it's harder to confirm into from lows. And it launches them so high I have to SJ to catch them and it results in overall loss of damage. This means I get less damage from an aircombo in heatmode than without!

 

I had known Robo wasn't among the top, but that he is pretty much a crap character? No wonder I've been having trouble against most characters. And no wonder why my secondaries who I have played for a couple weeks do much better than Robo who I have played for much over a year now. I'm not giving up though, I guess I'll be a lowtier hero then and I don't think any character in this game is unviable.

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side note that a lot of the cast after heat 2s can be hit with grounded 5s© then you can super jump

 

so you can do like

 

5p 6h frc dash 5s© 2s dash 5s© sji air combo and get some meaty damage that way

 

robo is low, but still strong. you just gotta work a little harder for a lil longer than you did in vanilla ac

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Wow that's so good to know! I was always just superjumping because I didn't know better. Now that I know c.S works I can finally implement jump installing to my game.

 

Just to verify...

 

If I want to superjump install that combo, I will have to input 28 right after I hit with the first c.S and then cancel into 2s before the jump comes out? Or do I have to do it with the last c.S?

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