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[+R] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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Holy shit 194 on Pot out of WILD THROW? Yes please.

I'd wish that ending combos with normal Fafnir > Tyrant Rave instead of FB Fafnir worked, but the Tyrant Rave followup is 8 frames slower on the normal Fafnir.

Yeah I haven't found a good way using normal Fafnir yet sadly, it's so much slower. You seem to have to cut back on the # of SW before for it to work but then it may not be worth it anymore.

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Oh. If you have access to it right now, can you tell me what FB Fafnir does on Counter Hit? The frame data doesn't say, it only states KD on normal hit and Slide on Clean Hit.

If it slides, see if you can get any good followups like out of CL Fafnir.

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Oh. If you have access to it right now, can you tell me what FB Fafnir does on Counter Hit? The frame data doesn't say, it only states KD on normal hit and Slide on Clean Hit.

If it slides, see if you can get any good followups like out of CL Fafnir.

CH FB Fafnir also causes the groundslide, which can be followed up with CL GV midscreen or midscreen-to-corner (or 5K/5S 2H jS SW stuff if you're close enough to corner). It seems like if you hit it from max/long range at midscreen the GV doesn't reach in time though, hard to tell for sure cause I can't mash as fast on Vita but it doesn't look like it reaches fast enough from that far. Going to miss the wallbounce :(

CH regular Fafnir also causes the groundslide but since you recover way slower it seems you can only combo off it if you're close to corner. The groundslide might have shorter duration too...

another thing I tried, airthrow > fS > FB Fafnir works like we thought it would, only tried on Jam so far and it doesn't CL but it gets the knockdown + some damage at least.

EDIT: it did CL on Sol though, but had to grab lower. I'm trying it on everyone, looking at that post you made a while back.

EDIT2: on Sol, sorta low airthrow > fS > CL FB Fafnir > CL GV...etc works from starting position...hawt

Hell I might as well make a combo thread for +R so we can keep these organized and people can post their findings there.

Edited by VR-Raiden

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CH FB Fafnir also causes the groundslide, which can be followed up with CL GV midscreen or midscreen-to-corner (or 5K/5S 2H jS SW stuff if you're close enough to corner). It seems like if you hit it from max/long range at midscreen the GV doesn't reach in time though, hard to tell for sure cause I can't mash as fast on Vita but it doesn't look like it reaches fast enough from that far. Going to miss the wallbounce :(

CH regular Fafnir also causes the groundslide but since you recover way slower it seems you can only combo off it if you're close to corner. The groundslide might have shorter duration too...

another thing I tried, airthrow > fS > FB Fafnir works like we thought it would, only tried on Jam so far and it doesn't CL but it gets the knockdown + some damage at least.

EDIT: it did CL on Sol though, but had to grab lower. I'm trying it on everyone, looking at that post you made a while back.

Maybe we can do 5K/S 2H Dustloop if you're near the corner but not in it by the time you reach them after the slide. That'd probably give use enough time to land and relaunch into SW loop. Hell, you could probably pull off that sick 1-rep DLoop dj. SW that I'm kind of fond of, that Kishitaka does here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4f_Ssr4xN0#t=46s.

I actually do something similar in AC already against lightweights in meterless corner combos: 5K/S 6P, Gunflame, 2H j.D dj.SW |> dash j.S SW |> j.S dj.D VV. Usually does at least 230 or so.

Surprisingly, the frame data says CH Fafnir slides longer than CL/CH FB Fafnir (40F for normal, 28F for FB), but FB recovers in 17f while normal recovers in 27f. Also, the hitstop from CL FB Fafnir might make it easier to confirm and work off of. That's stuff I'd like to try when I get the chance.

Jam is a lightweight, so you should actually be able to get a CL FB Fafnir out of airthrow without a f.S if you're close enough to the ground when you throw her. If you're in the corner you could easily get a nice combo out of it.

Speaking of which, I started doing corner Airthrow to Tyrant Rave B in AC. It's not much, but you can add like 40 damage to normal corner throw combos if you link 5K j.K SW out of the super and follow with dash 5K/S 2H tk.9SW |> 5K/S Bandit Revolver. Puts them back in the corner and does like ~150+.

Oh yeah, Corner Throw/Airthrow 6P Combos! Fuck yes.

EDIT2: on Sol, sorta low airthrow > fS > CL FB Fafnir > CL GV...etc works from starting position...hawt.

Sick.

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That single rep dustloop into SW seems like it may be the optimal route for damage+knockdown from what I'm trying.

Gonna have to try more airthrow/corner throw stuff, those combos will probably all be new.

Tyrant Rave B after airthrow should work similarly to how you were using it, sticks now but you can still get a SW after it.

I've been trying to see when you can get CL BB in SW loops to see if there's any reason to. From midscreen 2D BR(RC) SW on lightweights, where you can do j.SW reps, you can get a CL BB in that situation. Maybe that will be good to help you end in Fafnir>Tyrant Rave? after CL BB you have time to normal Fafnir>Tyrant Rave. but from 2D RC that's a lot of meter already.

on Baiken starting with your back near corner:

2D > BR(RC) > SW > [fj.SW] x 3 > dash fj.S > j.D > dj.D > VV - 246

2D > BR(RC) > SW > fj.SW > CL BB > Fafnir > Tyrant Rave - 287

also been trying GF FRC > CL BB stuff to compare damages but having a hell of a time doing anything involving GF FRC on Vita :psyduck:

Edited by VR-Raiden

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Big thanks to VR-Raiden! would contribute if I had a Vita. want to get one anyway. P4G, GG, and Dragon's Crown!

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That I recall sol I recall sols command throw combo already does 165-175 depending on if you do the 4 or 5 hit side winder combo.. So not sure if 20 points is really worth a full super unless your doing it for the burst benifits... I dont see much use in that property besides, obviously if you punish a burst if they have been hit by a side winder so you can get double damage that sorta idea. Id think it should be possible though to get wiff fafnir to super in situations where you can side winder to BB like iad attack to it, or jump s, hs. Id also assume you can get it off of clean hit grand viper. So those random combo you do vs lights like sweep, grand viper, should be pretty damaging... I think the problem with it is its just al ot of super to use and where you would use it the hit/damage buffer is already so high its fairly negligable.

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Yeah so far I've only gotten regular Fafnir > Tyrant Rave to combo after CL BB but I don't know a way to land that after more than 2 SW yet.

Any ideas with Dragon Install? I'm trying this goofy new move (what do we call it btw? TO(DI)?) You can loop it quite a few times and the height the bounce after it hits seems to depend on how high they were hit with it originally.

I've honestly never been familiar with DI combos in the first place. Just to give an idea you can do this in corner:

tk.TO > dash 2H > j.D > j.D > dj.TO > dash tk.TO > dash tk.TO > dash 2H > hVV - 190 on Sol

Doing just BR loops seems to do about the same damage though. I guess it looks kinda fast as an overhead, would be interested to know how quickly it hits crouching opponents at the lowest height.

btw I can't test fully mashed GV stuff too well on this either :I:

Edited by VR-Raiden

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Have you tried double power dunk stuff yet? Just try hitting that into it self. You could do that in the other games. Maybe now it works again and of course since you want as many clean hits as possible...

As for dragon install id assume just comboing that new move into it self.. My main idea I had now is f+p should combo to dragon install stand kick now from my theory fighterish. That was was the main thing I was going to try with it.

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Have you tried double power dunk stuff yet? Just try hitting that into it self. You could do that in the other games. Maybe now it works again and of course since you want as many clean hits as possible...

It doesn't seem to work from just a normal ground hit BB, they dont bounce high enough so they reach the floor before the 2nd BB can hit.

CH BB combos into a 2nd BB from far range on May, but it isn't clean. Tried it on Baiken and it only hits OTG. On Sol, it OTG clean hits. The CH bounce isn't as high as it used to be sadly.

As for dragon install id assume just comboing that new move into it self.. My main idea I had now is f+p should combo to dragon install stand kick now from my theory fighterish. That was was the main thing I was going to try with it.

corner 6P > DI > 5K definitely works, you can get 5S/5H/2H there too looks like.

EDIT: same from air 6P, like throw > 5K > 6P > DI...

Edited by VR-Raiden

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If you're going to try some DI combos, you might want to start with something other than DITO (god this feels weird to type) because it has an 80% prorate. Surprisingly, DI 5D is FASTER than tk.TO (18f startup vs 20f). I mean, it's cool that we have a new, safer overhead (+3 on TO while +/- 0 on DI5D), and while I think the prorate is justified, I'd like to think that maybe we can get something cooler/stronger by leading into it. Say, corner 5K/c.S > 6P > DI > dash 2H > j.D > j.D > dj.TO > dash tk.TO > dash tk.TO > dash 2H > hVV. Or maybe screw around with Dustloop if you can.

Oh right that other thing that was mentioned: does DI HVV automatically go into Knockdown afterwards, or do you still have to input it? I remember reading something along the lines of that being a thing from one of the loketests.

Still waiting on the chance to try it on my friend's Vita sometime soon. Got a bunch of stuff I wanna try, like this:

-Combos that started with j.S in Accent Core do how much more damage now that j.S is unprorated? How does this compare with everybody's health buff from 420 to 460?

-2H counter hit has 8 additional frames of hitstun on counter hit. Can we dash into j.D > Dustloop or Sidewinder Loop? Does it knock down? etc.

-Grand Viper's active frames were altered, does this cause any noticeable differences?

-Is the game still stupid with GV/VV RC? I don't know how many times I have a blocked VV, I mash RC while airborne, and nothing happens and I eat shit for it.

-How many reps can we get going solely for Dustloop?

-What's the optimal way to end with Tyrant Rave (like VR-Raiden is doing)?

-How many times can we rep BB into itself? From what I've seen, getting clean hits on it is harder than I initially assumed.

-What gatlings to 6H: c.S or f.S or both? Is c/f.S 6H Fafnir Tyrant Rave optimal over c/f.S 5H Fafnir TR?

-Since 6H is now down to level 4 (the only level 4 move among Sol's grounded arsenal), and without stagger, can it still go into Grand Viper at certain ranges?

-What can we do with 6P's increased hitstun on both ground/air, and ground/air counter hit?

-What's the best combo to do out of Fafnir RC? (I wouldn't be able to try full GV combos on Vita either, though. :v: )

-How big is FB Sidewinder's hitbox? Can we use it against crouching opponents, people poking out of pressure, or as a fuzzy guard? Does it fastfall like normal FB and make itself unusable as a jump in tool?

-What's the best we can do out of Tyrant Rave B's wallstick while in the corner? While a bit further out?

-"FB Sidewinder: On hit, the opponent gains Tension Gauge and Burst Gauge based on 70% of the damage value." Wanna try to figure out what the fuck this means.

-DI 5P does more damage. Is this anything aside from completely asinine?

-Is Super Dragon Install still a completely worthless piece of shit? Does it drain health at the same rate? I would assume so, there's no listed changes for it (and there go my hopes of DI combos locking the opponent's burst. Fuck that would be amazing).

Note that this is all stuff I plan on doing soon enough, but feel free to test any of these if they pique your interest enough. Hell, add to this list if there's anything else that hasn't been considered or tested yet. I mean, you're the one with the game :toot:.

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You have to input the knockdown after DI HVV just like non-DI. It doesn't seem like it always combos though kinda like when you go for it after too many SW.

I'm taking a break for a bit but I already tried a few of those things I can comment on. Definitely curious on the rest though.

- CH 2H is untechable til they hit the ground so it feels like you can do whatever, CL BB was one thing I tried that worked from certain range.

- Only f.S gatlings to 6H, if you do c.S > 6H your 5H comes out. 6H actually doesn't even combo to normal Fafnir, only FB.

- I get 6H(1) to combo to GV up close but not 6H(2). Would be interested to see damage off it but yeah can't mash well on this lol.

- FB SW seems to have the same hitbox/fastfall properties as H SW from what I can tell.

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Hrmm im suprised you cant get 2 clean hit BBs in a row... maybe set up specific then.. Can you get clean hit BB, jump up delay clean hit side winder Xn that sorta thing then?

Glad to hear that f+p does combo into dragon install.. Assuming that is the case he should have some pretty close to instant dizzy combos then.

Oh yea did you try and of the F+P loops I posted before? Maybe you can get some f+p, gun flame, f+p , gun flame with some weird distances etc

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Hrmm im suprised you cant get 2 clean hit BBs in a row... maybe set up specific then.. Can you get clean hit BB, jump up delay clean hit side winder Xn that sorta thing then?

Glad to hear that f+p does combo into dragon install.. Assuming that is the case he should have some pretty close to instant dizzy combos then.

Oh yea did you try and of the F+P loops I posted before? Maybe you can get some f+p, gun flame, f+p , gun flame with some weird distances etc

I can't get just jump SW after CL BB, but I can get IAD j.S > SW, which leads to jump SW.

It does look like you can do some 6P GF loops, on non-leightweights I've been able to do c.S > 6P > delay GF > [6P > GF] x 2

I also tried a DI combo, i think it was

c.S > 6P > DI > c.S > j.D > j.D > dj.TO > dash tk.TO > dash tk.TO > dash 2H > hVV got Dizzy to start flashing red, I'm sure it could be improved and mayyybe dizzy her?

Edited by VR-Raiden

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If we're going for DI and guaranteed dizzy combos, we're probably going to have to use at least one 6H (faster and more damage in DI, has a 1.5x dizzy modifier), and go for HVV a little earlier. Maybe more Dustloop in between the two? I mean, Dizzy is pretty easy to stun.

Maybe xx 6P DI c.S/2H D-Loop (1 rep, maybe 2), dj.TO, dash 6H(1) HVV, if it's possible? Just speculation. It'd be better if the 6H was earlier because of stun decay, but it being only special cancellable is kind of a pain in the ass. Then again, you could just do Bandit Revolver because DI BR is so crazy. Hell, you might also be able to go into 6P > DI > 6H because DI 6H starts 5 frames faster (frame 8).

5K c.S 6P (push yourself back a bit) DI > f.S 6H BR, xx... c.S/2H/6H hVV? God I wish I wasn't busy so I could go steal my friend's Vita.

6P GF loop sounds hilarious.

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Today I was trying to compare some damages from relatively simple meterless corner combos on Sol.

airdash j.S > j.D > 2H > j.D > j.D > dj.SW > run 2H > j.S > SW > 2H > tk.SW > c.S > BR - 261 dmg

airdash j.S > j.D> 2H > [j.D > j.D] x 2 > dash j.S > j.D > dj.S > dj.D > sVV - 267 dmg

Using 6P > GF in that combo I can't seem to get knockdowns after 3 SW, but maybe 6P > GF will end up better to use when you have meter to FRC.

About 6P > GF loops, I'm sure something will come of it, I can do airdash j.S > j.D > delay 6P > delay GF > 6P > GF > j.K > SW but haven't really found anything good following that yet.

This led me to try another combo though, which is similar to the GV 4+SW untechable-OTG combos in SaishuuKessen's old vid. I never got good at the tk.9SW I've seen Sol's do to get corner knockdowns, so I like going for at least half of those combos (on non-lightweights). Example being 5K > 5H > GV > delay j.D > delay SW > bj.S > SW > 2H > BR for corner knockdown and decent damage, or +2 more SW for insane damage and untechable OTG hits. Now in +R, I'm trying this on Sol:

airdash j.S > j.D > 2H > j.D > j.D > slight delay j.D > slight delay SW > bj.S > SW > 2H > BR - 252

or going for all 4 SW

airdash j.S > j.D > 2H > j.D > j.D > slight delay j.D > slight delay SW > bj.S > SW > delay dash 2H > j.S > j.K > SW > nj.S > nj.K > SW > delay BR - 271

however I didn't get the OTG 2K c.S f.S to be untechable here, still knockdown though.

and just to see the damage, if you do FB Fafnir(whiff) > TR after the 4 SW combo, it did 298.

also, I bet you can choose to IAD back instead of backjump j.S here. This might be pretty character specific too, only tried on Sol so far.

Edited by VR-Raiden

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Well I dont want to post to many of the other ideas I have since I want to wait till the game comes out *crickets chirp* so at least some of the stuff ive talked about is new when I make a video. Thinking about it though what is the point of wiffing the fafnir anyway before super... You can get a clean hit from fafnir so that should add to the damage multiplier anyway after the super right? Id also think now that jump dust does longer stun you should be able to get some other varations of those untechable OTG combos I did as well with his air BR loop as well now though.

Also remember for combos that were more awkard to get a knock down before when you did so many hits.. Say where a attack to BR would be tight.. Now just doing f+p to a BR should be a good way to end a combo.

Edited by Notwhoyouthink

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Well I dont want to post to many of the other ideas I have since I want to wait till the game comes out *crickets chirp* so at least some of the stuff ive talked about is new when I make a video. Thinking about it though what is the point of wiffing the fafnir anyway before super... You can get a clean hit from fafnir so that should add to the damage multiplier anyway after the super right? Id also think now that jump dust does longer stun you should be able to get some other varations of those untechable OTG combos I did as well with his air BR loop as well now though.

Oh yeah didn't try to actually get a clean hit with the FB Fafnir, you probably can in that situation. Definitely looking forward to seeing what you come up with once you get your hands on the game.

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So I've never been a master of the dustloop, only started getting into actual real combos when Slash came out. But it seems to be character specific with the amount of reps you can get since some characters either go too high after the first rep (lightweights), or don't get hit by j.D as low in the air (like Ky) so you have to do more ground attacks before the j.D. The most I can get (on Sol for example) is 2 reps, I dunno if I suck or if that's where you really have to stop (meaning I get j.D, j.D > j.D, j.D > j.D they tech, j.D whiffs). Also I'm not sure if j.D hits them any differently than it did in Reload, like higher up or something, I don't think so but not sure. and another thing, if you get pushed out too far it seems like you can't get as many reps. this is all starting from just 6P > 2H in corner btw.

I've been messing with FB SW for easy-mode corner knockdown combos when you have meter to burn for some extra damage, I can't really be sure how practical they will be without being able to GF FRC or GV but for example...

corner j.S 5K 6P > 2H > j.D j.D > j.D delay FB SW > bj.S SW > 2H BR, or

corner j.S 5K 6P > 2H > j.D j.D > nj.D FB SW > nj.SW > BR for lightweights.

Might not even be worth it but I've just been messing with that. He has so many more combo options now, already had a lot of freedom before and now there's even more options.

btw I can get GF FRC timing fine it's just I'm not used to the buttons and it's causing negative edge crap to happen so I can't do anything consistently :psyduck:

Edited by VR-Raiden

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Dustloop was a pain on Sol. I'd recommend testing on Axl or Slayer (especially Axl) for someone easier.

And I haven't seen anyone get more than two reps, so that really might be the max. Still sounds like it does pretty good damage anyway, though.

Some #R relics I've been wondering about:

Is it possible to do triple dust reps (j.D jc j.D-D) on Pot? I'm pretty sure one is possible, but I'm not sure two are, or how hard it is to follow up.

How hard is it to follow up on something like dash 2K 5S 6P 5H iad j.PKD?

Does air hit j.D air dash j.K connect? I don't think this one will work, honestly, but I'm curious.

Does H VV kick work after a 2 rep dust loop?

Does the old "ghetto" loop work (j.D jc j.SD land, dash, j.K follow up)?

For someone trying to super jump air dash out of the corner, how hard is sj.D-D to follow up after?

How hard it is to follow up after air hit j.PS jc j.D-D?

Edited by Orrax

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Been messing with a new midscreen-to-corner combo on Jam,

5K > 2D > GV > sj.D > j.D > j.BR(1) > 5K > tk.BR > 5K > BR - 187-190 depending on how many tk.BR hits connect, builds about 40-45% tension.

You might be able to get another tk.BR in there but I was having trouble getting a knockdown after that due to pushback (and Vita d-pad)

Is it possible to do triple dust reps (j.D jc j.D-D) on Pot? I'm pretty sure one is possible, but I'm not sure two are, or how hard it is to follow up.

Does air hit j.D air dash j.K connect? I don't think this one will work, honestly, but I'm curious.

Does H VV kick work after a 2 rep dust loop?

Does the old "ghetto" loop work (j.D jc j.SD land, dash, j.K follow up)?

For someone trying to super jump air dash out of the corner, how hard is sj.D-D to follow up after?

How hard it is to follow up after air hit j.PS jc j.D-D?

- I was able to get corner c.S > 6P > c.S > 2H > j.D > dj.D > dj.D, but couldn't loop anymore j.D after that, so it feels like you have to go into other stuff.

- I couldn't get air hit j.D > airdash j.K to work, or j.P, but it's possible it's just very tight timing.

- I'm not getting hVV to knockdown but sVV does, combo I'm doing is c.S > 6P > 2H > [j.D > j.D] x 2 > dash j.K > j.D > dj.S > dj.D > sVV

- Yeah that ghetto one works

- corner air hit sj.D > j.D > j.BR > 5K link works so this will probably be big. Now we're able to easily convert damage off a really high j.D hit. Like in that Jam combo I was trying.

- You can do j.BR 5K link after that j.P > j.S > dj.D > dj.D close to corner too.

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- I was able to get corner c.S > 6P > c.S > 2H > j.D > dj.D > dj.D, but couldn't loop anymore j.D after that, so it feels like you have to go into other stuff.

- I couldn't get air hit j.D > airdash j.K to work, or j.P, but it's possible it's just very tight timing.

- I'm not getting hVV to knockdown but sVV does, combo I'm doing is c.S > 6P > 2H > [j.D > j.D] x 2 > dash j.K > j.D > dj.S > dj.D > sVV

- Yeah that ghetto one works

- corner air hit sj.D > j.D > j.BR > 5K link works so this will probably be big. Now we're able to easily convert damage off a really high j.D hit. Like in that Jam combo I was trying.

- You can do j.BR 5K link after that j.P > j.S > dj.D > dj.D close to corner too.

Thanks for the info! Sounds like j.D-D xx j.BR opens up some new combo possibilities.

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So you know when you tag someone out of the air with a CH VV 2nd hit, but you're too far to get anything good, now you can do (dash) f.S > CL FB Fafnir > GV etc kinda like off a low airthrow.

Also there's quite a few ways to combo into DI other than corner 6P, some that I'm noticing:

CH 2D > DI > c.S/5K, works on non-heavy weights

CH 2H > DI > whatever you want

CH 5H > DI > (dash) 5K/5S/2D/5H/6H

WT > DI > dash 5K...

anti air 5K > 2H > j.H(1) > SW > DI > 5K... or most any kind of SW hit it seems, as long as they don't tech too high.

CH/CL BB > DI > ...

EDIT: I got a super impractical dizzy combo on Dizzy,

CH 5H > DI > 6H(1) > hVV(1)(RC) > dash j.D > TO > sj.D > TO > hVV

but you take too long to recover to actually hit her during the dizzy state if she mashes out at all.

I'm trying to find a more practical one, like maybe one that ends in hVV(1) RC so that you could IK or combo from the dizzy, or squeezing in more jD to dizzy before VV, but this fucking D-pad :arg:

EDIT2: CH 5H > DI > 6H(1) > hVV(1)(RC) > dash j.D > dj.D > TO > sj.D > TO dizzy

Can anyone tell me or point me somewhere that explains how exactly dizzy works? I'm doing the same combo with the exact same recording on myself and it's either dizzying on different hits in the combo or not at all. The combo in question:

CH 6P >DI > 6H(1) > hVV(1) RC > dash tk.TO > tk.TO > TO > sj.D > TO (dizzy) > sj.D (dizzy) > TO (dizzy), or never.

I'm starting to think mashing inputs reduces the amount you get dizzy? I don't get it

Edited by VR-Raiden

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From this section in the wiki:

Stun formula: "((Move Damage x Combo Hit Modifier x Character State Modifier) - 5) x (random value between 1.0~1.3) x 0.15"

So, yeah, there's randomness in the formula itself.

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Id be suprised if jump dust, to air dash attack worked.. Pretty doable in XX, but in reload that is pretty tight timing for sure. And with it even suppose to be less in this game.. Well id be pretty suprised.. although if it did work that would mean stuff like corner to corner combos should be possible.

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