[+R] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

[VR-Raiden]

soooo.... lets say i catch a jump out with 5k

and i go 5k 2h jc j.d dj 236d

how do i pick that up? they land in a goofy spot and can tech JUST above the ground. whiffed 2s going for that, and i only got it a few times in a casuals session.... so..... no idea.

what character you doing it on? also screen position matters. On most you can 2H after the FB SW in that combo, or 5K/c.S>2H to make it easier. From air hit 5K>2H, usually just going for j.H(1) SW works so you don't have to spend meter. If you can see the j.H didn't hit right then you can do VV or FB SW to continue, but you won't necessarily be able to get the same stuff since they will fly up higher.

Edited August 30, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[iora]

it was on jam. still dont have training mode, but it happens a few times vs stickbug in casuals last night, so just trying ot think since thats all the practice i can get lollol - wait..... sad

[Kaizen]

If it's against a lightweight like Jam (or pretty much anybody, really), you should be able to back/neutral empty jump Sidewinder. This can be kinda hard, but it usually nets you a shitton of damage. For example, AC empty jump Sidewinder Loop out of Wild Throw against lightweights did upwards of 200 damage.

[Notwhoyouthink]

On a sort of fun note. Depending on the character you can actually get legit combos up to stagger level 3 off fafnir. So no RC link into a attack or into a throw. Again sadly character specific but kinda fun... Vid will probably be out tommorow to lazy to really play games so just gonna put up what i have.

[VR-Raiden]

I finished formatting the matchup threads, started putting in random punish and combo info. Would be awesome if people started posting matchup info, even if it's reiterating something from the archives. I'll be honest and say there are still some matchups I know diddlysquat on how to play properly lol

[VR-Raiden]

Nyoromo vs Koma (Kliff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7fjVz5P0hIM#t=507

Never realized this before but air hit CH f.S combos to BB. Maybe good to know for the Kliff matchup considering it happens twice in this match. I'm guessing Kliff is getting hit out of one of his specials, or rising j.H or something.

EDIT:

after watching again, this looks to be a IB punish on that drill move http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=7fjVz5P0hIM&t=8m38s

Edited October 4, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[VR-Raiden]

Something that occurred to me, you can use FB SW for burst safe combos when the opponent is near death, or you think they want to burst badly. Simply doing long range j.S > FB SW will outrange bursts. You can use this in pretty much any SW loops but one example is WT > bj.S FB SW > nj.S FB SW > bj.S FB SW...etc just jump in the direction that will put you far enough away from the opponent. I got WT > nj.S FB SW to be burst safe sometimes but it's more iffy.

[Arvoyea]

So glad I bought the game for both PS3 and 360. At least no need to buy the JP release right now. Just wanted to say it's great so far but I seem to be unable to adjust to Sol's changes.

[VR-Raiden]

So glad I bought the game for both PS3 and 360. At least no need to buy the JP release right now. Just wanted to say it's great so far but I seem to be unable to adjust to Sol's changes.

I'd say the most important change to get used to is cancelable Fafnir/FB Fafnir. It's a pretty huge buff, so try to get good at confirming f.S to FB Fafnir, f.S 5H Fafnir, and 2D FB Fafnir near corner.

Other than that its mostly combo improvements from AC. Only things that don't work anymore are 6H GV and midscreen CH 2D GF FB Fafnir combos, but neither of those were vital.

Oh, and of course remember to use FB SW for those times you think you'll miss a clean hit, or for extending combos for the kill, or making stuff burst safe, or using it for funny tricks/midscreen fuzzies.

Edited October 16, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[iora]

better combo path on ch 2d?

currently doing ch 2d, funflame:D, dash 5k, 2h, j.s j.d FBSW

[VR-Raiden]

better combo path on ch 2d?

currently doing ch 2d, funflame:D, dash 5k, 2h, j.s j.d FBSW

Take out the 5K if you're close enough and it'll do more. Also j.S straight into regular SW works and will end up doing more than if you use FB SW. Replace j.S with j.H(1) if they're higher up, typically that'll happen more on lightweights.

I forgot to put any CH 2D combos down, I'll do that later cause its a really common starter. CH 2D > no mash GV is the strongest and reaches far but its not easy to hit confirm if you aren't sure it'll clean hit.

[iora]

yea i was doing FBSW cuz i never got the clean hit otherwise, something about my timing on the 2h i think

if its always just normal, i just need to practice it. kk :D

[Orrax]

2D (CH) GF FRC j.CLSW, short dash 2H, nj. CLSW, 2H j.S CLSW, nj.S CLSW, BR.

That's the one I used in AC/AC+, and it should still be pretty strong in +R. If you've got a corner, there's probably a dustloop setup for mid to heavy weights, but I haven't had a chance to mess with it.

If you miss the FRC, or omit it, you should be able to do 2D CH GF, j.K CLSW/FBSW and go from there.

[BladeOfJustice7]

VR Raiden, I just wanted to come here and give you props for the Grand/Ground Viper tutorial that you made on youtube. I'll be showing it to my friend real soon.

[VR-Raiden]

2D (CH) GF FRC j.CLSW, short dash 2H, nj. CLSW, 2H j.S CLSW, nj.S CLSW, BR.

That's the one I used in AC/AC+, and it should still be pretty strong in +R. If you've got a corner, there's probably a dustloop setup for mid to heavy weights, but I haven't had a chance to mess with it.

If you miss the FRC, or omit it, you should be able to do 2D CH GF, j.K CLSW/FBSW and go from there.

That combo definitely seems best for midscreen. I'm gonna start using it. Using CL BB after the GF(FRC) doesn't seem worth it outside corner, damage I was getting from combos using that was either less or about the same, and the combos were much more character specific. That one you have there is universal I'm finding. Added these to the combo thread:

• CH 2D > GF(FRC) > fj.SW > dash 2H > tk.8SW > 2H > j.S > SW > nj.S > SW > BR - 244 dmg
  - Universal midscreen CH 2D combo for 25% Tension. Replacing the final nj.S SW BR with 2H tk8.SW 2H BR increases damage but fails on light weights.
  Works on: Everyone
  
• CH 2D > GF(FRC) > fj.SW > [fj.SW]x3 > dash j.D > sVV - 297 dmg (Baiken)
  - Light weight only higher damage midscreen CH 2D combo for 25% Tension.
  Works on: BA, BR, JA, KL, MA
  

I'll add corner/midscreen-to-corner ones later, but for those it does seem better to go for CL BB into dustloop stuff.

VR Raiden, I just wanted to come here and give you props for the Grand/Ground Viper tutorial that you made on youtube. I'll be showing it to my friend real soon.

Awesome, glad to help. The general lack of knowledge on GV I've seen bothered me so hopefully this helps fix that.

Edited October 20, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[Kaizen]

Dang, forgot to post what I was going to say.

If you land 2D CH from close enough midscreen and do Gunflame, you don't need to FRC to continue the combo. You can link GF straight into 2H > j.S/j.H Sidewinder from anywhere midscreen, or dash up 5K from further out (though this is much harder).

I usually do 2D (CH), 2H > j.S/j.H > SW |> (j.S) SW |> [dash 2H > SW |> BR] or [(j.S) SW |> j.S SW |> dash j.D sVV] .

I'm pretty sure the second combo route still works, but it's been a while since I tried it. Does ~ 250 or something. Can't remember.

At midscreen or near the corner on lightweights, you can do 2D (CH) Gunflame FRC, empty jump Sidewinder x 3 on lightweights and some midweights and then do j.S SW + land Bandit Revolver for like 280+ damage. You guys already got something similar, but you can sacrifice knockdown and do:

2D (CH) > GF(FRC) > j.SW |> j.SW |> 8j.SW |> j.S SW |> 8j.S SW |> j.S SW |> sj.P * 5 > sVV. Does ~320 damage.

On Baiken this scores ~335 damage, so it's good if you want the kill or don't care about knockdown

[Nephinel]

hello

question about gatling 6P>5H into dustloop combo

how much would I need to adjust the timing of 5H against heavier/lighter characters in order to connect the j.D into dustloop?

Also, are there options for Volcanic Viper > Knockdown after the second rep of dustloop ? I try to do j.K>j.D>dj.D into S Volcanic Viper but it's possible for the opponent to recover before I can use Knockdown. Should I use something shorter to go into Volcanic Viper>Knockdown or just end with Volcanic Viper and let the opponent recover?

[VR-Raiden]

hello

question about gatling 6P>5H into dustloop combo

how much would I need to adjust the timing of 5H against heavier/lighter characters in order to connect the j.D into dustloop?

Also, are there options for Volcanic Viper > Knockdown after the second rep of dustloop ? I try to do j.K>j.D>dj.D into S Volcanic Viper but it's possible for the opponent to recover before I can use Knockdown. Should I use something shorter to go into Volcanic Viper>Knockdown or just end with Volcanic Viper and let the opponent recover?

You want to delay the 5H/2H more on lighter characters. Some don't get hit as low as others by jD though so if the first jD is going over them you need to do the 5H/2H earlier.

What starter are you having that issue from? You need a good starter and to be going into dustloop early in the combo to get a full loop. If theye teching before the knockdown kick you should end the combo earlier so it connects. Only time you shouldn't care about knockdown is if it will kill anyway.

Also what character are you doing it on when that happens? If theyre too high up and the kick is just missing after the VV its probly cause theyre light and you'll need to delay more between loops and possibly use less air normals at the end.

[Nephinel]

For the starter I've been using 5K into 6P.

Last night I've been experimenting with Chipp (mid), Millia (light), and Potemkin (heaviest)

these were the first three characters I got from random select, shut up

Chipp:

If I gatling 5H immediately after 5K>6P, I can get only 1 rep of j.D, j.D since he can recover after another j.D if I try j.D, j.D again.

If I delay the 5H to hit when Chipp falls the lowest to the ground after 6P (not so low that 5H will OTG), I can do 2 reps of j.D, j.D if the first j.D in each rep doesn't hit him too high.

Millia:

I can get 2 reps if I gatling immediately, but I'd need to super-jump the second rep of j.D, j.D then follow up with Volcanic Viper>Knockdown.

Couldn't get more than 1 rep from delaying the 5H against her though. Probably some matter of spacing between the 6P and 5H. Or maybe it's my shitty execution at work? Please take this with a grain of salt.

Potemkin:

Oh this one's kind of easy enough since Potemkin's a large target so timing of 5H isn't as strict. Matter of making sure the j.Ds coming out quickly, but other than that...

As for follow-up after loop, I usually just do j.D xx Volcanic Viper>Knockdown now since that's easier and less likely for me to mess up.

[Kaizen]

Are you dashing into the j.K > j.D? A lack of a dash is likely what's causing the knockdown to whiff, as you get pushed out too far from the opponent to score it. Are you close to the opponent when you do your VV? Because you should be right next to them.

Dashing into each rep of Dustloop not only makes the reps connect, it also works off of an important delay which lets certain characters float lower so they can actually get hit by the second part of the second rep. This is important on characters like I-no, Millia, and Dizzy (and less so, Chipp), who float high enough after the first rep that the second becomes almost frame tight. Remember that j.D's increased untechable will give you the leeway to score Dustloop in the first place, so you need to utilize that to do DL properly.

The way that works best for me is like this, regardless of weight class (of course, as long as DLoop actually works on them):

dash 5K/c.S > 6P (long delay) 5H > j.D, j.D |> dash j.D, j.D |> dash (j.K/j.S) j.D > dj.D (or dj.S > j.D) > VV.

The dashes put in the necessary amount of delay, but sometimes might require that you wait a few frames more. There are exceptions like Johnny, Ky, and Robo-Ky (heavy, lower delay), and welterweights (May, Baiken, Bridget, Jam), but otherwise is pretty generalized.

This is obviously easier to screw up, so if you feel more comfortable sacrificing potential damage to guarantee KD, then go for it.

[Nephinel]

Ah, I'm starting to see...I wasn't dash-jumping into the j.K > j.D after the second rep. Very important note to always jump forward.

I actually pulled off that combo in an online match some time ago, but I messed up somewhere and it turned black beat so it didn't really count ololol

[Orrax]

Made a video showing some example BR loops. Wonder if these will work in Xrd...ElvenShadow said BR loop worked so maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-DqnJqgcTE&hd=1

Very nice.

How do BR loops in Xrd work? In #Reload, they were off of ground BR, not j.BR, so there could be some differences if Xrd follows #Reload.

[VR-Raiden]

How do BR loops in Xrd work? In #Reload, they were off of ground BR, not j.BR, so there could be some differences if Xrd follows #Reload.

hmmm good question, all I saw said was "BR loop works" so not sure. Yeah, given that they seem to be basing most off #R, maybe they are like that.

Also, my next plans for vids is a simple anti air tutorial, then a kind of "how to hit people" collection (maybe last +R one?). I'm thinking of having 2 categories in the vid: solid mixups and gimmicky stuff that works. Any ideas for it are welcome.

Edited December 30, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[VR-Raiden]

Does anyone know any OS for punishing reversal backdashes against safejump jS/jH? Maybe something with f.S or FB Fafnir? I will try stuff next chance I get but curious to hear if anyone knows something good. It's kinda bad I never really looked at it indepth.

[Orrax]

Yes, do j.S/j.H and do 5K during the block stun of the meaty. If you did it right, you'll get j.S/j.H if they block (you may see the beginnings of j.K if you did j.S), and you'll get 5K if they backdash.

This does tend to work better in the corner. I'm not sure who it works against or doesn't work against mid-screen. If you're deep enough, I think it should probably still work mid-screen against most characters.

You can also do 6+H+K and catch some throw vulnerable reversal supers, like Baiken's overdrive, and still get 5K if they backdash.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Orrax