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VR-Raiden

[+R] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

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Yes, do j.S/j.H and do 5K during the block stun of the meaty. If you did it right, you'll get j.S/j.H if they block (you may see the beginnings of j.K if you did j.S), and you'll get 5K if they backdash.

thanks, I got this to work in corner. I'm wondering though, is there a way to make it so you can easily combo after the j.S hit, block reversals, and punish backdashes at the same time? I recorded this holding 4 when I hit K to block reversals and punish backdashes, but I haven't been able to confirm off the j.S into combos if it hits. You might be able to if you only press 4 for a short amount of time? Maybe you just have to hit confirm quickly to something that will reach. This is what I recorded, same one each time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD9L7y9eWAA

EDIT:

This is a better version, got it to work with the help of Final Ultima in the Skype chat. j.S~4K~1K, covers all situations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI0ZhKU_Tmg

Edited by VR-Raiden

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Nice video, but I see you got 5K 2D when they back dashed. I think you should be able to hit confirm j.S 2K, though, so it's a minor complaint. Also, I think it's a bit easier if you can do j.H (2) consistently on crouching characters (except for the few characters it whiffs on). It just gives you more time to hit confirm.

You'll probably still need to be careful of slow reversals with this option select. The window between blocking and activating 5K is wide enough to catch fast moves like Sol's H VV, but against some slow start-up overdrives it's going to be a lot harder to keep everything perfect.

Edited by Orrax

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Nice video, but I see you got 5K 2D when they back dashed. I think you should be able to hit confirm j.S 2K, though, so it's a minor complaint. Also, I think it's a bit easier if you can do j.H (2) consistently on crouching characters (except for the few characters it whiffs on). It just gives you more time to hit confirm.

You'll probably still need to be careful of slow reversals with this option select. The window between blocking and activating 5K is wide enough to catch fast moves like Sol's H VV, but against some slow start-up overdrives it's going to be a lot harder to keep everything perfect.

Yeah it seems doable to confirm the 5K to 6P, since if youre doing the OS and go from 4K to 1K, the 1K can't come out after the 4K hits at least so that won't mess you up. I'll try it with j.H too.

and good point, I'll try a bunch of reversals and see which it works on and which it doesn't.

Also, I was not able to get the 5K to hit Sol backdash at mid screen, and it looks like it wouldn't catch any but I didn't try anyone else. I tried getting in deep but it didn't seem to catch it. I'll try other characters.

But while looking at midscreen stuff, Final Ultima found a really funny one. Basically the same idea but with Tyrant Rave to catch the backdash. I'm gonna be messing with that one more later.

I had the thought that FB Fafnir might've worked midscreen before, but now that we have FB SW it doesn't work so well as an OS.

Edited by VR-Raiden

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You might be able to buffer dash 5K during the hit pause. That should catch people midscreen. I'm guessing it will make the OS really vulnerable to reversals, though.

I've been meaning to do some testing of my own, but I keep forgetting. I'll try to remember to do some tonight.

Edited by Orrax

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yes i believe this works. that is what i usually do midscreen. Meaty J.s 66 5k. When executed correctly the microdash 5k tags backs dashes except maybe Potemkin's

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Cool I'll try that. I'm kinda in the process of trying corner/midscreen backdash punishes for every character, and looking at their reversal options.

EDIT:

I was looking at the corner one again, I got jS~4K~6P~1K to work. Automatically confirmed the backdash punish 5K into 6P and still blocked. However when I got it, the 1K didn't combo on stand hit. I tried replicating it and getting the 1K to combo but failed for now :v: I'll try again later

Edited by VR-Raiden

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So I'm finally getting to the point in ACR where I'm looking into my sub again, Sol. My good friend who plays Sol is a horrible instructor even though he plays a competent Sol.

So are there any long time competent Sol players besides VR (whom I harass like crazy already) that can teach me how to play this character effectively. I want to learn how to main protagonist people into victory.

P.S preferably you're located in the upper eastern coast as possible.

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So I'm finally getting to the point in ACR where I'm looking into my sub again, Sol. My good friend who plays Sol is a horrible instructor even though he plays a competent Sol.

So are there any long time competent Sol players besides VR (whom I harass like crazy already) that can teach me how to play this character effectively. I want to learn how to main protagonist people into victory.

P.S preferably you're located in the upper eastern coast as possible.

No worries, harass away lol. As for other fellow active east coast Sols, Troll Badguy and SIne are in the northeast I believe, so you could try hitting them up.

Also, I made the combo thread prettier by collapsing groups of combos. I think I need to work on those again and add some more realistic confirms for a couple. I'll update the video thread and collapse stuff in there too shortly.

Edited by VR-Raiden

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Combos aren't so much of the issue for me it's about understanding how to use this characters tools effectively and knowing how to use him properly. I'm to playing characters that emphasize screen control, so playing a character that has a very in-your-face is a huge hurdle for me personally.

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I'd say that Sol does have a good amount of screen control. The wiki here has good information on him.

You just got to be really precise with what you're doing.

What are some good Force Break combos I can utilize midscreen? Tyrant Rave can do some amazing things. I have lots of ideas already on ways to get meter so I'd like to have a rhythm down, so that I can pull out a nice flowing combo when opportunity strikes.

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What are some good Force Break combos I can utilize midscreen? Tyrant Rave can do some amazing things. I have lots of ideas already on ways to get meter so I'd like to have a rhythm down, so that I can pull out a nice flowing combo when opportunity strikes.

You can do stuff with FB SW midscreen, like 5K 6P c.S jS FBSW on most (example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwGD1XUnu24)

f.S > FB Fafnir is a great way to get knockdown off f.S.

Also approaching corner you can do whatever into 6P CL FB Fafnir and combo off the ground slide. This works farther from corner than 2D CL FB Fafnir.

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So I got down that combo and some variations of it, getting it established into my muscle memory is still a bit of a challenge, but it's very useful. I also watched some of your videos, Raiden. Dat anti-air 5K combo video gave me some great ideas.

Something that I'm having trouble with now is getting Sol's dust to work when I want it to. The dustloop and 2D are great, but I can't seem to get 5D(followed by a dust combo) in when I want to anymore, mainly because of pressure and that small hitbox. Are there any particular setups I can look into?

By the way I'm entering a +R tourney on saturday. :v:

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Something that I'm having trouble with now is getting Sol's dust to work when I want it to. The dustloop and 2D are great, but I can't seem to get 5D(followed by a dust combo) in when I want to anymore, mainly because of pressure and that small hitbox. Are there any particular setups I can look into?

I rarely use his 5D, most people I fight can block it pretty easily. It's got a really obvious animation and it's unsafe on block. But if you can hit people with it, go for it. Probably the best setup for it is GF FRC dash 5D because theyre locked in blockstun and you're kinda hidden behind the flames. That or you can use it after short blockstrings up close.

Pretty much there aren't many times when its a better option than going for WT/anti WT punishes.

And good luck in the tournament, I've got one coming up myself next week.

Edited by VR-Raiden

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So I'm finally getting to the point in ACR where I'm looking into my sub again, Sol. My good friend who plays Sol is a horrible instructor even though he plays a competent Sol.

So are there any long time competent Sol players besides VR (whom I harass like crazy already) that can teach me how to play this character effectively. I want to learn how to main protagonist people into victory.

P.S preferably you're located in the upper eastern coast as possible.

Come to ottawa again and I'll do it! Also we're close enough that we might be able to (gag) netplay.

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Just added you guys, I just spent like 10 minutes looking for your gamertag on psn because I don't read lol.

Looking forward to learning this character so I can... DIVEKICK PEOPLE IN XRD.

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I added you!

And now for contribution! I want to get my Sol knowledge written down, and this is what I worked on last night. It kind ballooned in length because I wanted to check all the characters. Let me know if things this long should get their own thread or a google doc or something.

--

As we all know, it sucks to finally get in and then get beaten by clever blocking and they get out again. Here's something that can maybe help with that!

This is an option for when you get to connect a 2P in pressure against a short opponent (list at the bottom).

The input is 2P 5P 62[3]K

So, you do a crouch jab and chain into a stand jab. Then either A) the 5P will whiff, and if you timed your inputs correctly, a Wild Throw comes out! or B) the 5P will connect and, since you can't cancel into Wild Throw, you chain into 2K and don't whiff your throw!

Note that you don't want to perform the 623K too quickly, because it seems like you can whiff cancel 5P into 2K (Contrary to the wiki's frame data gatling table?!?!)

Now, this trap is character specific, because whether the 5P whiffs or not is character specific. For example, 2P5P will combo if it hits Kliff, and whiff if Kliff crouch blocks the 2P, but there's no way to make 5P whiff on Potemkin unless he's backdashing or something (don't let him do that).

Also, some characters have an easy answer to this trap: if they Faultless guard the 2P, the pushback will make the 5P whiff, even if you were dashing, and the following Wild Throw will also whiff because you were pushed out of range. A possible answer to this (against Kliff, for example) and also a simpler option select in general, is just 5P 62[3]K.

So, I've made a chart of 5P behaviour:

2p5p62[3]k(d) blockstring/throw/hitconfirm option select

after dashing against crouching opponent:

does 2p5p whiff on block? does it connect on hit? does 2p5p whiff on faultless? does 5p alone whiff on crouch block?

ab - y y y s

ax - n y n n

an - n y n n

ba - n y n n

br - n n n y

ch - y y y*y

di - n y n n

ed - n n n n

fa - y n y*y

in - n y n n

ja - n n n n

jo - n y n n

ju - n y n n

kl - y y y y

ky - n y n n

ma - n n n y

mi - n y n y

os - n y n n

po - n y n n

ro - n y n n

sl - n y n n

so - n y n s

te - n y n n

ve - n y n n

za - y n y y

"s" means, it seems like about 1/3 of the time on crouching Sol and crouching ABA, the 5P will connect, and the rest of the time it will whiff.

*it seems like you can often still throw chipp and faust after they faultless. because they have short but relatively wide crouching hitboxes?

In summary:

The trap works vs. crouching block against ABA, Chipp, Faust, Kliff, and Zappa.

Of those, it seems you can still throw Chipp or Faust even if they're holding FD. The others have a narrow enough crouching block that with the usual timing, you'll whiff your throw and be punishable.

Against Faust or Zappa if you hit with 2P you will still go into the throw trap, whereas against ABA, Chipp, and Kliff you will have a guaranteed combo. Additionally, if you hit Bridget, Eddie, Jam, or May with 2P, you can chain into a whiff 5P.

Finally, against Bridget, Chipp, Faust, Kliff, May, Millia, Zappa, and sometimes Sol and ABA, you can whiff 5P over their crouching guard to catch counter-throw attempts.

Like all tick throw attempts, they can jump/backdash/mash this, though it's hard to jump out of the 5P so it's got that going for it. The key is to work this into your pressure alongside other strings like 2P 2(K/D), or 2P (2/5)H. Sol's 2H is a pretty good frametrap now that it's really really easy to combo on counterhit and/or trade since they buffed the untech on counterhit properties, for example.

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That's cool stuff, I had known 2P 5P(whiff) as a possible WT setup on short characters, but never looked into it in so much detail. And the OS to get 2K is definitely new to me, adding this to my arsenal. Thanks for sharing it and testing so thoroughly.

I could see a thread dedicated to useful option selects being good actually. At the least I'll add a section for them in the wiki and link to your description.

EDIT:

I tested the safejump backdash punish OS a bit more (jS~4K~1K), so far I've found that it's good both midscreen and corner on Eddie and Sol. Hits their backdashes and blocks their reversals. Still going through others but yeah people with slower reversals like Order Sol's DP, it doesn't work, you get CH out of 4K.

I'm putting the findings in the description of the vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI0ZhKU_Tmg) until I finish trying it on everyone.

Edited by VR-Raiden

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people were wondering if 5h cch bb worked in xrd, where it looks like it doesn't work on may. this is a kinda useful confirm since on some people, you can't (well, I can't) hit their crouching sprite with an IAD jS, which nets you the best combo off ch 5h i think. you can also grand viper anyone from anywhere, but that's more GB-

anyway, i tested it to see which characters it works on:

ab - y

ax - y

an - y

ba - y

br - n

ch - n

di - y

ed - n

fa - n*

in - y

ja - y

jo - y

ju - y

kl - n**

ky - y

ma - n

mi - n

os - y

po - y

ro - y

sl - y

so - y

te - y

ve - y

za - n**

*bb doesn't connect on crouching faust at all

**clean hits crouching???

yeah my training mode claims that i'm clean-hitting crouching zappa and kliff even though they're on the ground. what

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GV off 5H CH is always the best option, does even more than the iad j.s j.d SW which can miss based on spacing / crouching and character specific.

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Yeah some characters are weird and can get CL grounded from BB. If I recall it can also CL crouch Faust and Order-Sol (Papstr told me that one, it has super specific spacing to get it).

I didn't know 5H > BB was character specific at all, so this info might be useful for Xrd too. if I confirm it I always do CH 5H GV over the other options.

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I'd just do CH 5H GV to be solid and CH 5H CLBB for when I want to be crazy and intimidate the other player. Also I need some help confirming dustloops better. The timing in #R I have okay after going back recently and trying. In AC+R however I can't get even the first loop complete.

P.S. Hi it's been a while

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