[+R] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

[VR-Raiden]

I never knew this, but apparently CH 2D links to 5K on lighter weight characters (MI, IN, JU, MA, JA, KL, BR, BA). At that range you can CH 2D > GF > 2H etc of course, but it's good to know if you didn't already cancel to GF.

 

also starting to add some more info to match ups. Started with Jam a bit yesterday.

[king of heart]

Does anyone have any tips with doing WT into IAD j.S or j.P into SW on Light and Mid light characters ?

That's the only thing left for me to learn. but for some reason i end up getting a j.VV instead of j.S most of the times!

[VR-Raiden]

Does anyone have any tips with doing WT into IAD j.S or j.P into SW on Light and Mid light characters ?

That's the only thing left for me to learn. but for some reason i end up getting a j.VV instead of j.S most of the times!

I still have a lot of trouble with it too. I do find that doing the SW as a half circle 41236H helps prevent VV though.

I have actually been wondering about this combo. I remember IAD jS SW after WT always being described as burst safe, and I believed til I tried it more myself recently. I was not getting the first SW to be burst safe, I don't know if its just a timing thing or character specific, or if they were just referring to the following j.SWs being burst safe, or what. If anyone can shed some light. Plan to try it some more soon.

[Kaizen]

Does anyone have any tips with doing WT into IAD j.S or j.P into SW on Light and Mid light characters ?

That's the only thing left for me to learn. but for some reason i end up getting a j.VV instead of j.S most of the times!

 

The likeliest reason is that you're getting IAD by rolling into it. Instead of 956, you're probably hitting (3 or 6)956 on the way up. If you're getting VV after j.S, it's because when you dash, the 6 counts as a move input and 623 takes priority over 236. That's why if you dash forward and quickly do 236K/S, you get Wild Throw instead of Bandit Revolver, and why you can dash VV so easily. VR-Raiden's suggestion works as well, since GG seems to also put 41236 in priority over 623, and if you don't have a 41236 move on the button you pressed, you get a 236 instead.

 

As for IAD j.P and j.S, you need to delay your IAD a bit against lighter characters because their clean hitboxes are higher on their bodies. Some characters I've never had any luck with IAD j.P or j.S against, due to a combination of clean hitbox and their falling hitbox orientation. I've never gotten it on Johnny, Ky, or Millia, to name a few.

 

 

I have actually been wondering about this combo. I remember IAD jS SW after WT always being described as burst safe, and I believed til I tried it more myself recently. I was not getting the first SW to be burst safe, I don't know if its just a timing thing or character specific, or if they were just referring to the following j.SWs being burst safe, or what. If anyone can shed some light. Plan to try it some more soon.

 

I think it's timing specific. I've gotten it on light/mid/heavyweights when I do it early enough (against, I-no, Pot, etc.), but not against welterweights (Baiken, May, Jam, Bridget), because of the aforementioned timing due to clean hitbox location. Millia's another one of those oddities where it usually doesn't seem to work.

[king of heart]

I still have a lot of trouble with it too. I do find that doing the SW as a half circle 41236H helps prevent VV though.

I have actually been wondering about this combo. I remember IAD jS SW after WT always being described as burst safe, and I believed til I tried it more myself recently. I was not getting the first SW to be burst safe, I don't know if its just a timing thing or character specific, or if they were just referring to the following j.SWs being burst safe, or what. If anyone can shed some light. Plan to try it some more soon.

The j.P version is burst safe on Sol

Kishitaka did it on me many times when i went to Mikado and when i burst the air dash takes Sol out of the burst range the i eat another SW loop

I can AID into j.S>SW normally 

i guess my main problem is the lack of knowledge regarding  the key visuals and when to jump and the whole time window available for me to do it or the window for the air dash it self

i need tips from someone who can naturally and consistently do it   

[VR-Raiden]

The j.P version is burst safe on Sol

Kishitaka did it on me many times when i went to Mikado and when i burst the air dash takes Sol out of the burst range the i eat another SW loop

 

oh nice I got that to work, thanks. I wonder who else it works on, I'm gonna try to see. I'm nowhere near consistent with it yet though.

[Orrax]

The iad j.P CLSW is burst safe on everyone, but it also doesn't work on everyone. I don't believe I've ever gotten it to work consistently on lightweights. I seem to remember it not being too hard on Axl, Slayer, and Faust, and it can technically work on a few others, like Sol and (I think) I-No. The full combo is WT iad j.P CLSW, j.CLSW, j.CLSW, BR, but it's a lot easier if you leave out one j.CLSW. Even the BR is burst safe on some characters (pretty sure it's safe on both Axl and Slayer if spaced right, but I'm not sure about Faust). Also, iad j.K CLSW is burst safe and works on a few characters as well, most notably Faust.

 

Doing iad j.S CLSW is not burst safe on anyone, iirc.

 

It should be possible to do iad j.P/K FB SW on some characters that iad j.P SW doesn't clean hit, but the follow up might be tighter. I haven't really done much testing, though.

[VR-Raiden]

I'm almost done trying IAD j.P and j.S on everyone, I started testing yesterday evening. Didn't try j.K though, or j.H/D but dunno if those would work. Pretty sure my results match what you say Orrax except I actually get j.S to be burst safe on a few strangely enough. Also yeah IAD j.P FB SW works for those that at least get hit by the j.P.

Also while testing this I realized a very easy burst safe first SW on ABA. WT immediate forward jump > j.H(1) after the jump peak > SW, you land under the burst. Possible due to the extra time she lingers up there.

I'll post results I got on everyone later this evening. I've gotten at least decent at it going from left to right but I'm absolutely horrible at it going the other way.

[VR-Raiden]

Here's what I found. If anyone wants to verify that would be cool (the ones that I say don't work).

 

Using IAD j.S is funky, I would get it once then try again with ever so slight different timing that would make it not burst safe. When it is burst safe, you hit j.S very low, and you fly completely behind the burst instead of only slightly behind and under like with j.P. That probably makes it harder to punish the burst anyway, so j.S isn't advised either way if you have a choice. The only person this could really be of benefit is May since j.P SW doesn't work on her but j.S does (unless I missed someone else like that).

 

 

WT > IAD j.P > SW works and is burst safe on:

- AB, AN, AX, CH, DI, FA, IN, JU, OS, PO, SL, SO, VE, ZA

(fails on BA, BR, ED, JA, JO, KL, KY, MA, MI, RO, TE. To summarize, it fails on light weights and a few outliers from other weights.)

 

WT > IAD j.S > SW can work and can be burst safe on:

- DI, IN, JU, MA, PO, VE

 

WT > IAD j.P > FB SW works and is burst safe on:

- all except JO

 

 

I'm going to make a thread to organize character specific info like this, since a bunch has come up lately.

 

 

Also, slightly related but while trying this I messed with WT > bj.K > FB SW for a burst safe setup. bj.S works but is more character specific and leaves them farther away so harder to punish the burst. bj.K is universal. On light weights, you can get a 2nd SW which appears to be burst safe (not 100% sure, hard to test alone) by doing immediate nj.SW after the FB SW. The fact that you back jump makes it somewhat obvious something fishy is going on though so they may not take the bait, either way you get a combo though.

[BladeOfJustice7]

This character is fun, his pokes/reach (including gunflame) kinda sucks. Kinda weird to AA with him since it's just 5k>2hs>stuff.

[VR-Raiden]

5K > 2H will often do the trick for anti-air, but when they're too high for the 2H try to confirm to a superjump j.P to continue. 6P is also good in corner against air moves that don't hit extremely deep.

 

I've been updating the Character Specifics thread with info on the backdash OS punishes. Going by character and listing reliable punishes and whether or not they're safe to the characters wake-up options.

 

Looking at it though I realized a fun wake-up gold burst grab OS you can do from non-jump-cancel-able jump moves. For example, meaty safejump j.H~86H, will cause you to jump and grab their burst after you land from j.H. If you do it fast enough like the other OS stuff, you don't get anything to come out if they blocked or got hit by the j.H. Might be useful if you really smell a gold burst, possibly after already discouraging them from trying other wake-up options. Plus it looks hot of course.

 

but on the backdash punish OS, so far it appears that any reversal 8f or slower will hit a backdash punish attempt. Unless it's a dashing punish and they did a slower overdrive, because the normal comes out later in those cases and you can block during the dash. So on characters with quick reversals, you want to use "blocking" punishes (4K, 4c.S, etc) so you block as soon as possible. On characters with only overdrive reversals, you want to use dashing punishes if possible. It's slightly more complex than that but hopefully the table makes it easy to tell what you should do on any character.

 

It needs an explanation though, I'll add one above the table soon.

So far Axl, Chipp, I-no, Johnny, Justice, Ky, Order-Sol, and Potemkin have been fully tested.

 

It is definitely less relevant on certain characters, and it should reflect that. For example, Anji wake-up autoguard and Jam wake-up parry throw wrenches into doing jumping meaty all the time.

 

As for the table below it, that will eventually show how to punish (if possible) if the opponent does reversal. Might generalize it to just any reversals they have instead of just overdrives.

[VR-Raiden]

Gathered Potemkin matchup info in the first post of his matchup thread, so if anyone has anything to add or argue, or questions, feel free to start some discussions going in there.

Trying to update more of those threads. I'll probably just post in here each time I add a significant amount of info to one.

[VR-Raiden]

There's info present for Justice and Johnny matchups now.

So, I can finally do GF(FRC)>WT pretty consistently. My problem has always been not letting go of the FRC buttons quickly enough (switching to stick made it way easier for me to prevent that). I'm wondering people's opinions on how useful it actually is, and when you like using it.

I was trying for it a lot in matches the other day. It seems like a great trick that will catch people not expecting it but kinda hard to set up and pretty bad if you miss the FRC. Main issue I was having was sometimes I would go for it and not confirm that the normal I was starting from had hit them anyway. Doesn't seem easy to confirm if they blocked, but I need to see if it works from something on hit. Also if they FD seems like you'll have to be really deep and do it from just 1 hit.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I can safely say that I can play this character at a competent level. Still somethings it takes some time getting used to. For a easily accessible like Sol, his optimized combos are very technical.

 

But I have a few questions, what are my combo options after BB. more so midscreen.

I can't seem to get out 66>2s>2hs>js>SW after a successful jd>SW, am I supposed to cut it short into 2s>2hs>SW, or am I not hitting 66 early enough?

I have a hard time ending SW loops with 2hs>BR on weight classes lighter than Johnny, especially after WT, they usually tech right before my 2hs. What do I do?

What are my combo options after a successful 6p in the corner on my opponent?

Are ACR dustloops harder than #R/Xrd dustloops? Because I have been trying to learn to do 6p>5hs>jd>dustloop. It's hard as fuck, and I'm worried that dustloops have always been this hard to perform...

When am I going to get some sets in with VR-Raiden?

 

 

That is all for my questions my fellow Frederick comrades

[Final Ultima]

But I have a few questions, what are my combo options after BB. more so midscreen.

It really depends on how deep you land it. At closer ranges, you can comfortably dash up and land 5K/c.S > 2HS and follow-up with an air combo. If you land the dashing normal close enough, you can convert into a Sidewinder loop, but otherwise a short air combo into knockdown will suffice. If you land Bandit Bringer at near max range, your only decent meterless option is to go for dash f.S > 5HS (JC) > IAD j.P into whatever. At absolute max range, you can land Fafnir and that's pretty much it.

Should the Bandit Bringer be a Clean Hit (assuming you combo into it, that is, this doesn't apply to some of the longer ranges that you can hit Zappa or Kliff crouching and still have it count as a Clean Hit), you can easily land a dash 2HS without needing any other normals inbetween (although you may still want to add c.S if you're up against a heavyweight just to adjust their height, or a 5K/c.S if you hit a crouching Zappa or Kliff at max Clean Hit range). Everything that applies to the Clean Hit version is especially true on Counter Hit, as you have basically all day to land a follow-up combo regardless of distance. The corner carry potential of Bandit Bringer is massive, so anything beyond P2 starting position can easily turn into a corner combo.

 

I can't seem to get out 66>2s>2hs>js>SW after a successful jd>SW, am I supposed to cut it short into 2s>2hs>SW, or am I not hitting 66 early enough?

First of all, assuming you don't mean c.S, 2S isn't what you want in that situation. It's a bit awkward as a combo part against airborne opponents and might be the reason why you're experiencing difficulties. c.S is preferable, but 5K also works in case you need some extra time to dash. I should add that it's possible (and in fact, preferable on lightweights) to pick the opponent back up without any additional normals between the CLSW and the 2HS, but the additional normal is useful for stability and height adjustment when necessary, and it barely affects damage at all (I'm talking like a difference of 1 damage between doing c.S and not doing it). It also makes 2HS (JC) > fj.CLSW far more reasonable.

As for the dash itself: Simply put, if your dash is coming out as a backdash, you're doing it too early. If you're dashing but not catching up, you're doing it too late. If you still can't catch up consistently after practicing, I find that it helps to keep in mind the way that Sol sways during a deep corner fj.D. Sol connects the j.D deep, then get pushed out as he hits max height, then starts falling forward, all within a relatively short span of time. You want Sol to land j.D deep enough so that opponent crosses over you right after you land, preventing an accidental backdash, but you don't want to land it so deep that they're already miles away by the time you start dashing. This is why you want to delay j.D just long enough that Sol starts falling forward.

 

I have a hard time ending SW loops with 2hs>BR on weight classes lighter than Johnny, especially after WT, they usually tech right before my 2hs. What do I do?

2HS > Bandit Revolver enders are generally most viable after a 2HS (JC) > nj.CLSW, mainly due to the velocity of the wall bounce combined with Sol himself not moving forward. Your mileage will vary greatly if you attempt it off other setups. If your opponent is crossing over you or you don't think you have enough time after landing to do a 2HS, try c.S instead.

 

What are my combo options after a successful 6p in the corner on my opponent?

 

Pretty much whatever you feel like doing, especially since 6P was buffed. The go-to combo off a corner 6P is delay 2HS/5HS (JC) into either a Sidewinder loop (j.D > CLSW |> dash (c.S) > 2HS (JC) > j.S > CLSW |> 2HS (JC) > nj.CLSW > 2HS > BR), a D-Loop (j.D, falling j.D |> dash j.D, falling j.D |> dash j.K/j.S > j.D (JC) > j.S > j.D > SVV -> KD), or a combination of the two (j.D, falling j.D |> dash j.D, falling j.D |> j.D > CLSW |> dash c.S > 2HS (JC) > fj.CLSW |> c.S > BR). Alternatively, you can also go for a Clean Hit Grand Viper (no mash), which will work from further away but does involve some timing nuances depending on the character and their weight class (as you have to delay Grand Viper by varying amounts in order to land the Clean Hit). A successful CLGV can also go into a Sidewinder loop, a D-Loop or a combination of the two. D-Loop into Sidewinder loop is optimal, but lightweights are tricky to D-Loop beyond a single rep into ender, for obvious reasons.

 

Are ACR dustloops harder than #R/Xrd dustloops? Because I have been trying to learn to do 6p>5hs>jd>dustloop. It's hard as fuck, and I'm worried that dustloops have always been this hard to perform...

Rest assured, it's not just you. D-Loops are harder in AC+R, as j.D has noticably less untechable time. That's why two reps into ender is the max in AC+R whereas #Reload and Xrd can hit three or four reps into ender.

 

When am I going to get some sets in with VR-Raiden?

I'm sure he'll let you know as soon as he gets back from UFGT.