[+R] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion

[the00monkey]

hey guys, i hope im in right area, i was wondering if i can run after sol's BB hits?

[VR-Raiden]

hey guys, i hope im in right area, i was wondering if i can run after sol's BB hits?

Yes you can start running pretty much right when Sol touches the ground, and follow up with run 5K 2H to SW loop or air combo.

[Bloodcrave]

well now that ggxrd is revealed, anybody else horrified with his gv change? ; ;

[VR-Raiden]

well now that ggxrd is revealed, anybody else horrified with his gv change? ; ;

I was a little sad, but I don't think its worth getting worked up about. It's way too early to do anything but speculate.

Discussion of Xrd should be taken elsewhere though, since this is the +R discussion after all

[iora]

a lot of the stuff shown in the video was of reload style anyway

it could be just placeholder stuff depending on how early dev started. or we could be going back in on reload <333

really watch it again, and you'll see what i mean.

[Notwhoyouthink]

Does one rep of dust loop work to a then IAD dust?

[Orrax]

Looks like air CH 2D combos to clean hit BB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mpf1oiMyAXI#t=555s

Edited May 30, 2013 by Orrax

[VR-Raiden]

Does one rep of dust loop work to a then IAD dust?

I can't seem to get it, not 100% positive since I'm not great at IAD on Vita but it doesn't look like it'll work. they're teching before the last jD.

Looks like air CH 2D combos to clean hit BB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mpf1oiMyAXI#t=555s

That is whack, tried it and it appears to CL most light weights and normal hit medium weights.

btw I'll update the video thread first post shortly, thanks again for posting vids Orrax

Edited June 1, 2013 by VR-Raiden

[Troll Badguy]

Hey guys, checking in from Japan right now. I'd just like to say that gatlingable FB Fafnir is the god and I'm oh so happy that we have it. Also this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpf1oiMyAXI&feature=youtube_gdata_player is Koro-Chan. Uses the name Izumi sometimes. He got REALLY good after 2 or 3 years. You'll see what I mean about FB Fafnir in this vid. Midscreen pokes into KD... yessssssssssss. FB SW change makes my swag combos actually doable without stupid hard timing too.

[Orrax]

Hey guys, checking in from Japan right now. I'd just like to say that gatlingable FB Fafnir is the god and I'm oh so happy that we have it. Also this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpf1oiMyAXI&feature=youtube_gdata_player is Koro-Chan. Uses the name Izumi sometimes. He got REALLY good after 2 or 3 years. You'll see what I mean about FB Fafnir in this vid. Midscreen pokes into KD... yessssssssssss. FB SW change makes my swag combos actually doable without stupid hard timing too.

I've actually thought Koro-Chan was really good since AC. Pretty much since I saw him beat N-Otoko a few times in A-cho grand finals. But yeah, I think he's one of the best in +R.

Have you played at A-cho at all? I thought I saw the name "Troll Badguy" show up once, but I've seen multiple people use that moniker, so I wasn't sure.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Orrax

[nnecron]

Since I've been trying out +R Sol, I was wondering why he is still stuck in lower tier. 3 of his players have made to Arc Revo, but I'm not sure what does that mean in terms of Sol's character power. If you are any good at reading Japanese I'd recommend reading the recent character rankings at GGXXBBS. I guess it's because his pokes and other normals leave him at disadvantage, and he still has to get close in order for him to do any damage from mixups, but considering how he can cancel out Fafnir after Gatling his pokes are now much more threatening so you would think that he is more capable of controlling his opponents than before.

[Orrax]

I'd say it's probably because of matchups. He hasn't really got many notably good matchups, and he has some significantly bad matchups against the wrong characters (most notably Faust, but Kliff also looks pretty bad to me).

[nnecron]

I don't mean to compare Sol and HOS, but Order Sol also got his fair number of bad match-ups with top tier characters like Slayer and Potemkin in AC+, and he doesn't have particularly good match-ups either.

[Orrax]

In AC, Order Sol and Sol are about on par with each other.

In +R, that's again probably the same. Order Sol might be above Sol slightly, but, if so, it's not by much. In terms of tournament placing and videos of late, I'm inclined to say that Order Sol is worse, but that might also have to do with the lack of Order Sol players.

Nonetheless, when we're talking tier placement, we're talking where a character belongs relative to the rest of the cast. In +R, I don't think much separates tiers. Many characters don't do well against Faust, but for most it's only a slight disadvantage, while with Sol it's more significant. Also, he has to take a lot of risks to get in, and the universal health buff means it's harder to kill someone just because you got momentum once. This means that one of his greatest strengths (being able to kill from getting momentum) has gotten harder to do. That's made his game a bit more difficult on the whole, despite the buffs he got.

All in all, Sol's placement as "low tier," if that's really where he belongs, isn't to say he's a bad character. He's got all the tools he needs to win, plenty of strengths, and only a couple of bad matchups. But he's still relatively worse than most of the other characters, and it's small differences like that that separate the tiers in this game.

[Final Ultima]

An update to be made regarding Sol's changes: As the changelog for v1.10 indicated, Sol's Tyrant Rave damage was changed between v1.00 and v.1.10. The mook (based on v1.00) lists the damage as (25+25n)x3+84, but as of v1.10 is now (25+30n)x3+84. The frame data and character pages have been updated accordingly.

Thanks go to SKD and his now broken hands after mashing his very first Clean Hit Grand Viper on a Vita for the sake of these tests.

[VR-Raiden]

An update to be made regarding Sol's changes: As the changelog for v1.10 indicated, Sol's Tyrant Rave damage was changed between v1.00 and v.1.10. The mook (based on v1.00) lists the damage as (25+25n)x3+84, but as of v1.10 is now (25+30n)x3+84. The frame data and character pages have been updated accordingly.

Thanks go to SKD and his now broken hands after mashing his very first Clean Hit Grand Viper on a Vita for the sake of these tests.

Well that's cool, ill fix it in the first post here.

I managed to get a CL GV back when I was still trying stuff but yeah its a serious pain

[Kaizen]

Friend of mine lent me his Vita, finally got my hands on the game. I've pretty much been playing nonstop because DUSTLOOP.

My god, two things I never thought would be addressed were actually fixed. This makes me extraordinarily happy:

-On a lot of lightweights, Corner dashing 5K/c.S > 6P > Gunflame would whiff because they float so damn high. The extra two frames of hitstun fixes this issue and makes me worry less about my combos actually working. Additionally, this also makes it possible to do xx > 6P, 5H > j.D > Dustloop, for higher damage and easier setups than just c.S/2H > j.D.

-In AC, landing only the second hit of Bandit Revolver against a grounded opponent was unsafe on hit. The frame dropped from its recovery rectifies this completely, in addition to making it easier to link into 5P/5K on grounded counter hit, or for BR Loops in general. AIR BR, on the other hand, still has the same issue: hitting without landing the first hit on a grounded opponent is still unsafe on hit, but you really shouldn't be using AIR BR that way anyway.

However, I STILL don't get the 6H nerf. This move used to actually be worth it on hit, but now it's outright garbage. The ONLY thing it goes into is FB Fafnir for knockdown, or GV if you didn't combo into 6H, which doesn't make any sense because you shouldn't be using it by itself (or ever). They could have just nerfed the stagger a little, but now I have absolutely ZERO reason to use this move, even on punish.

Overall, though, I'm quite satisfied with j.S having no prorate and with Dustloop going into whatever the fuck.

To address to some earlier questions, double Clean Hit Bandit Bringer unfortunately doesn't lead into much of Sidewinder Loop, as it cuts out so much hitstun from your SWs. You can, however, go into a whiffed Fafnir > Tyrant Rave and get some seriously gnarly damage off of it (I think 303 against Sol in the corner for 75% meter? 2 GF FRCs to ClBB). That might not seem like it's worth it, but only one GF FRC > ClBB to Fafnir (whiff) Tyrant Rave does around 250, which is easy damage if they're almost dead and you don't want to risk messing up anything harder.

Additionally, though you get a clean hit from FB Fafnir, two clean hits already makes it pretty damn hard to actually Clean Hit a FB Fafnir for some reason, and the 70% forced prorate on Fafnir in general doesn't really make it worth it; you're better off whiffing the Fafnir and going straight to Tyrant Rave.

Which I love, btw. TR might be unsafe on block now but it links into 5K in the corner so you can actually knock down out of it.

I don't know if I can go back to regular AC, now.

[nnecron]

However, I STILL don't get the 6H nerf. This move used to actually be worth it on hit, but now it's outright garbage. The ONLY thing it goes into is FB Fafnir for knockdown, or GV if you didn't combo into 6H, which doesn't make any sense because you shouldn't be using it by itself (or ever). They could have just nerfed the stagger a little, but now I have absolutely ZERO reason to use this move, even on punish.

W...well you can still build up tension meter using 6HS followed up by...you know...fake Gunflame...right? Eh, I got nothing.

But seriously it does make you gain near 25% of the meter that way. But yeah, 6HS is such a wasted move.

[Kaizen]

W...well you can still build up tension meter using 6HS followed up by...you know...fake Gunflame...right? Eh, I got nothing.

But seriously it does make you gain near 25% of the meter that way. But yeah, 6HS is such a wasted move.

I mean, it's cool for dizzy combos in DI, but Dragon Install is still nowhere near worth burning 50% meter for a combo that might dizzy somebody.

In other news, Bandit Bringer Clean Hits on Kliff and Zappa crouching.

Get fucked old man. Zappa you're still cool.

I tried it on Faust but he still just crouches under BB.

[VR-Raiden]

I guess the main use for 6H will be after CH f.S for a bit extra damage into FB Fafnir, not that that's easy to confirm or anything. By itself I don't see it having any real use period now, at least before in AC if you got a whiff punish with it or something you got huge damage. Also used to rack up the guard bar a lot more.

That's funny you can CL BB those 2 grounded.

[Kikuichimonji]

Can Bandit Revolver be plus on block in blockstrings? I see even the best Sol's use it in blockstrings. Looking at the frame data, it's definitely possible since the second hit has 9 active frames, and I know you can combo on some crouching characters with 5k without counterhit at some ranges.

I know everyone can basically just 6p it into a combo.

[Orrax]

Yes, it can be plus. Usually, the farther away you do it and the closer to its max range, the better. Doing it too close pretty much guarantees that it will be minus on block.

And yeah, players with quick reactions can 6P it or slashback it, so it's best to not get too predictable.

[Tae Seong Kim]

Can Bandit Revolver be plus on block in blockstrings? I see even the best Sol's use it in blockstrings. Looking at the frame data, it's definitely possible since the second hit has 9 active frames, and I know you can combo on some crouching characters with 5k without counterhit at some ranges.

I know everyone can basically just 6p it into a combo.

IIRC, yes. They have to be blocking the tip of it preferably crouching. When high level Sol players use it in their block string, it is to prevent their opponents from jump out.

[VR-Raiden]

Can anyone that can do 2H tk9/fj.SW share how they like to input it? It's one thing I really wish I could actually use for reliable sideswitch to corner knockdowns. I can do 2H8/nj.SW easily but 9SW has always given me trouble.

For 2H nj.SW I just do

2H 8236H

and it works easily.

For 2H fj.SW when I try 9236H, I get VV as you'd expect, so then I try 91236H but I don't get SW out fast enough.

Is doing it as 2369H any easier? Wondering what people think is easiest way to do it, seems like it'll take me some grinding in training to use it either way though.

[edollarports]

Maybe you're holding down on 3? I had the opposite problem derping with ky, SE came out unless I held 3