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Vulcan422

Like a Boss: AC+R Justice Discussion

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First and foremost, THE LISTS (so far).

Justice :

- 22 + button : added P, K and D version possible to roman cancel each of them, command changed from 421 + button.

- Detonation of 22 + button : command changed from P to whatever button you used to trigger the move.

- 623 K : command changed from 412K

- 41236 HS : S version added, now possible airbone

- Gamma ray : FRC added, timing is right after the first hit.

- 236D now causes wallbounce

Loketest date: June 02~03

[Justice]

- 641236S has FRC

- Michael Sword (41236HS) can be done in the air

- You can shoot multiples 214S/HS

- FB 236D causes wall bounce (on AC+, it was wall stick)

[Justice]

Lost triple jump, ground dash and triple airdash

JU

No tripple jump

Slow walk

Counter doesn't work on lows

Can't combo off lightning tail DP like move

Justice :

- Walking speed seemed slow has hell and the guy who tried to play her didn't seem to dash even once, I'm wondering if she got Potemkin style ground movement ? Hard to say if this isn't a little to much to make up for her abilities though.

Thoughts? Can our favorite shemale Gundam finally be legit?

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It would seem that they made her more mech-ish than ever(no form of fast ground movement naturally, but projectiles for days). Air Michael Sword is very interesting to me, along with shooting multiple missiles. I guess they're trying to make her into a more zoner-type character. At least she's still got her gdlk pokes. 5H. j.D, and 6P were incredibly good.

Edited by Yggjrasil

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She can still do her standard launch combos apparently (c.S(2) > j.S(2) > j.H > j.D > IAD > etc...) which is very awesome. It seems that these nerfs didn't hurt her too badly, but this is only the beginning. Many things can happen.

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Well, yeah...She has two air dashes, you do them during the combo. You just can't do three of them like you used to and kill certain characters in one combo. Shit was ridiculous.

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GORILLA FATE IS CHURNING

LOKETEST DEUX

DECIDE THE DESTINY

Defense increased

Dizzy endurance increased

Movement

Normal fmovement is slower.

Tension gain increased.

Hitbox of Justice has been made smaller.

Air Jump

Can only air jump one time (not 2 like before).

Air Dash

Cannot Air Dash

Ground Dash

Cannot Ground Dash

Back Step

Total of 25 f and back dash distance increased. Strike inv. Between f 1-19.

IK Mode.

Takes 74 f to go into IK mode.

5P

Startup now 6f

2P

Startup now 5f

Recovery decreased with 2f.

5K

Startup now 8f.

2K

Startup now 7f. Has to be blocked low.

c.S

Startup now 6f.

Activity decreased with 5f.

f.S

Startup now 10f.

Forward Hitbox now bigger. Hitbox of Justice has been decreased slightly.

2S

Forward Hitbox now bigger. Hitbox of Justice has been decreased slightly. Counterhit results in stagger.

5HS

Startup now 6f.

Recovery reduced with 4f.

Hitbox of Justice has been decreased slightly.

2HS

Floats (high) on hit .

Hit pulls your opponent towards you.

Cannot be cancelled.

Forward Hitbox increased slightly.

JP

Hitbox made a little bit smaller.

JK

Hitbox made a little bit smaller.

Justice now has a hitbox on her feet.

JS

Untechable time of first hit is now 24f.

JHS

Startup now 13f.

Recovery increased with 5F

JD

Recovery increased with 2F.

Cannot be gattled to from JHS.

Can be gattled to from JP, JK and JS.

Now has 50 damage.

6P

Startup of first hit = 10f

Startup of second hit = 18 f

Can be jumpcancelled

Hitbox of Justice feet made a bit bigger.

6HS

Second hit now pulls opponent towards Justice.

Counter hit staggers.

Can be gattled to from 5K, 2S, c.S.

Forward hitboxo increased.

5D

Startup = 27f

2D

Active frames now = 5f

DAA

Can now only hit once.

Normal Throw

Throw range increased

236P ヴァルキリーアーク

Total of 38 F, catches between f 9 – 28.

Now prorates 50 %.

41236 S - S Michael Sword

New move.

41236 HS – HS Michael Sword

Only hits once.

Damage = 50.

On normal hit = wall bounce.

Startup = 20f

Air S Michael Sword 41236 S

New move

Air HS Michael Sword 41236 HS

New move.

S.B.T 623K

Input now 623K

Lower body inv added.

FRC added (f. 12-15)

Pulls the opponent towards Justice on hit.

80 % prorate.

N. B. (22 P/K/S/HS/D)

Added P, K and D versions.

If you hold down the button you can adjust the timing of the explosion.

FRC now on f 7-10.

Hit after explosion now has 6f startup.

You can now have more than one on screen.

Trijectory changed.

236D BOOSTSZZ サペリアードランス

Can only hit once.

Hitbox bellow increased.

Movementspeed now slower. And doesn’t move as far.

Has full inv. during movement

J236D MID AIR BOOSTZ 空中サペリアードランス

Justice now recovers faster after the move.

Justice now automacially faces the opponent after the move.

Has full inv. during movement

Imperial Ray

New input: 632146 S.

FRC added (f 26-29)

The first hit(s) now do 28 damage.

Guard balance decreased.

Decreased the amount of tension meter that FD-ing Imperial Ray requires.

Chip Damage decreased.

Michael Sword Super 632146 HS

FRC added (f 4-7)

Prorate = 80 %

Gamma Ray

FRC added. At the same time as the f of the hit.

Faster startup.

OmegaShift (46463214 S)

New Move.

Requires 100 % tension.

EDIT: Omega Shift, her new move, has been confirmed to be her version of Dragon Install. It is not known what costs it has, but this move gives her back ALL of her old mobility options. She can once again triple jump, dash, airdash, etc.

Edited by Vulcan422

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from what it states in the japanese gg wiki, omega shift jacks up her guard bar to max and there will be a recovery period like sol's dragon install.

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I guess we have to wait for more information, but I'm kind of disappointed in what's been done to her so far. I don't want to be broken but I don't want her to be completely useless either.

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Yeah, she's looking pretty bleh atm. It's kinda hard to see what direction they're going with her now.

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Elvenshadow's impressions:

I fought 2 Justice players. One of them was Mike (the famous Jam player). He had like a 30 win streak with Justice against various random people. I only fought him once and came within like a hit of beating him on my only try. Mike says that he thinks Justice isn't that good but is having fun messing with him and will probably stick with Jam. Mugen told me he thinks Justice looks strong. I asked Mike about his thoughts on the 100% tension "install" super and he says he never even used it once. He thinks its a waste of meter and that Justice's other supers are way more useful. I would agree. Fighting him just feels like running through a big obstacle course of slow moving missiles. Kind of like playing a bullet hell shooter but not really. Once you can get past the bit wall of missiles, the match didn't seem so bad. Justice can convert big damage off of random missile hits and he can also combo into existing missiles already on screen pretty easily. He has a lot of solid looking normals. His sweep is especially a good poke. Fast and long range. The other Justice player wasn't as good as Mike but he seems to be enjoying the character. Overall I think Faust will do fairly well against Justice because he has a lot of tools to get in with teleport variations, air force break pogo, and the right items at the right time. Faust can't really poke justice through all of those missiles though. I really want to fight this character more since I only had 2 matches total. Maybe just jumping into his missiles and slash backing them to get rid of them like I often do against Testament's old phantom soul would work, but I think they are multiple hits so it would probably be difficult. Once again, it is too early to tell how good Justice is, but I don't think he will completely suck.

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http://www.guiltygearx.com/ggxxacpr/location/

Justice will receive a balance tweak for AC+R v1.01. The change is listed below:

NBのアクション中、対戦決着後にNBを追加入力し続けることで、勝利画面に遷移しなかったのを修正しました。

It seems that during her NB action, she can continue to input an additional NB after the match. It also fixes it to where it can transition to the victory screen. This is from what I can translate from the page above, but any alternate translations are welcome.

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The only changes that the page lists for 1.01 are bugfixes such as Faust's dumbell causing restand after KOs, Justice's NB winfinite and Testament's 6K "float in the air KOF style" glitch. The patch went live two days ago, so we'll see if ASW snuck hidden balance changes in down the line.

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This character...looks horribly pathetic. It's to the point now where I just skip justice match ups in videos to avoid getting upset over how terrible the character's (re)design is.

From the looks of it, it seems as if all of her match-ups are unfavorable, uphill battles, and it's obvious that she was designed with the intention to have "strong zoning" capabilities but even this is questionable as the reward for keeping an opponent out doesn't appear to be high enough and is easily evaded. Converting damage off random hits (or in general for that matter) looks like a bitch too.

Kinda disappointed in this character thus far, considering the "weaker" characters in AC could still rough your shit up when the going got tough and momentum was established.

=(

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vIR96CXhjtM&list=ULvIR96CXhjtM#t=9s

Since Mike is one of my favorite Justice players next to Renkon and Hamenchu, it's good to see his Justice again for the first time since October.

@GOS Zar: Her attacks will get deadlier once you train with her and master her combos and abilities. The reason for her being "weaker" is because she is now rebalanced and retooled for competitive and arcade play.

This post right here will help you understand why Justice (and even Kliff) were banned from competitive play that they had to be retooled for GGAC+R: Vulcan422's post detailing what once made Kliff and Justice overpowered

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@GOS Zar: Her attacks will get deadlier once you train with her and master her combos and abilities. The reason for her being "weaker" is because she is now rebalanced and retooled for competitive and arcade play.

This post right here will help you understand why Justice (and even Kliff) were banned from competitive play that they had to be retooled for GGAC+R: Vulcan422's post detailing what once made Kliff and Justice overpowered

...Yeah, I'm quite aware of pre-+R Justice and her capabilities already...Wasn't making a comparison between the current and former forms of Justice in the first place. I was comparing Justice's overall abilities to the cast as a whole and when I mentioned "weaker" in my post I was referring to the lower-ranked/low-tier characters of AC e.g. Bridget, Johnny, etc. While considered to be "weaker" characters, the aforementioned were still able to establish some semblance of dominance in matches when given opportunities to shift momentum in their favor i.e. you couldn't let your guard down completely.

Also, it's not uncommon to see reblanced characters fall into the outlier spots (either extremely strong or weak). You can look at SSF4 Yun pre-2012 or Ryougi and Seifuku Akiha in PS2 MBAA (the former being insanely strong while the later tremendously weak). Hell, we can even reference +R with Kliff and Justice (again, one character strong, the other weak). Usually an upgrade or patch takes care of such issues though, which I hope to see in the future because unless someone finds some sick tech for Justice...Methinks she'll have to get comfy at the bottom of the barrel.

Her attacks will get deadlier once you train with her and master her combos and abilities.
Seems to me like Justice users are holding back or something because I've yet to see this "deadlier" side of the character lol. I mean, you can even look at the vid you linked in your post; Justice getting bonked like in every other vid on the net. Not really a good demonstration of the character's potential, wherever that may lie, in my opinion.

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There's some stuff I want to try when +R finally makes itself available to everyone (see if I can at least get j.D xx michael blade off counterhit DP, see exactly where and when you can 236D into OTG pickup off her groundslides, 6H xx Omega Shift then see which of the old ToDs still work etc.). Nevertheless, her general lack of mixups is what kills her. Sure you can do nuke FRC into 6P/5D/a low or bait a DP, but pretty much everyone has that. Even the weaker AC characters had other options (Johnny's frametraps, Bridget's ghetto I-no high-lows and bear glitch, Anji's instant overhead, Chipp's endless teleporting/walljump shurikens etc.) There's no really nasty ways to keep momentum going once you get a good read, and not enough damage for the smart punishes. Well, not without doing Omega Shift (which chews up 100% tension so you can't do nuke FRC after the first knockdown anyhow :v:)...

I think there's still some potential for purely defensive Justice, but it requires logic more comparable to Vs games than GG.

EDIT: I think the other reason for JU's dreadful performance in tournament's so far is just the players using her. We've got Renkon (a Mu player who's only recently picked up the game), Mike (puffball), Kusoru (who just wanted to show a silly glitch), Shuumatsu (a mediocre Testament) and that guy who makes the Faust matchup hatred videos whose name escapes me. None of the people who you'd expect to be used to a super defensive mindset (that is, every Faust and Robo player) have tried to seriously use her.

Edited by Pichy

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Nevertheless, her general lack of mixups is what kills her. Sure you can do nuke FRC into 6P/5D/a low or bait a DP, but pretty much everyone has that.
Yup

Even the weaker AC characters had other options (Johnny's frametraps' date=' Bridget's ghetto I-no high-lows and bear glitch, Anji's instant overhead, Chipp's endless teleporting/walljump shurikens etc.)[/quote']Yup

Edited by GOS Zar

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that guy who makes the Faust matchup hatred videos whose name escapes me.

You mean Okyan? He has uploaded several videos of Justice vs. Faust matchups.

Anyway, I've done a bit of a write up for the pros and cons of Omega Shift for the Strategies and Tips thread I made a while back. If there are any corrections to be made, feel free to note them.

The Pros and Cons of Omega Shift

Omega Shift is Justice's version of Sol's Dragon Install that is introduced in Accent Core + R. The pros of this move include the addition of another option to her game plan: By building meter so she can activate Omega Shift to transition to an offensive playstyle, and the return of her old mobility options (triple jump, dash, triple airdash). The recovery in the faint animation is faster than in DI.

However, the cons of Omega Shift are that it requires 100% Tension, and like Dragon Install, will last for a set amount of time (10 seconds); so it wouldn't be worth it to sacrifice all of the meter that you have in your Tension Gauge to regain Justice's old mobility options prior to AC+R. Remember to use this move wisely depending in your situation like you would with Dragon Install. Two more disadvantages with OS are that the dashes during that mode are not as fast as they used to be, and your guard gauge will be full.

Edited by MikelAL93

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