[CSE] Noel Vermillion General Gameplay Discussion.

[SkyKing]

If anything, they should give it physical invuln since we have j.D as the projectile invuln.

So how have people used it in CSX? The normal things I did with it in CS2 don't work anymore because of the startup time, so I never really use it except to troll around.

[Litherain-XIII]

well the obvious j.4d after neutral tech in the corner, j.4d midscreen after a few pressure strings off of 5a, 2a, or 5b. otherwise i use it in 2 corner combos for style thats it. 1 off of throw and once in a while after a 6b overhead that leads into a 6c(2)

[LunaKage]

I very rarely use j.4D, but the classic Jump In > j.C > j.4D trick still gets people from time to time.

[Alpha152]

One set-up I use for j.4D is blockstring > 5B > IAD > cross-up j.B > j.4D. It's pretty nice but getting the spacing on j.4D to cross-up after the j.B can be tricky. It's best to use and only really works around max 5B distance. Another good use is if you catch a standing opponent with 2C > 5C > IAD > j.B as an alternative to jump cancelling or dashing in.

[Ichipoo]

Just watched Xie's stream and saw a Noel perform what appears to be a Haida in CSEX. Anybody care to tell me the inputs and how it works please? And someone mentioned Drive mixups, which I find almost unbelievable given how gimmicky Noel is, but since I barely play this game, I'm not one to question the validity of said tactic so if anybody can explain that to me, that would be great despite me almost moving on to P4A.

[Litherain-XIII]

theres already a haida loop tutorial. just scroll down till you see it in the noel forums

[dualseeker]

And someone mentioned Drive mixups, which I find almost unbelievable given how gimmicky Noel is

Simple. So, you know how when you first try Noel, you just freaking love 3C to death? It's like "HOLY, THIS MOVE IS SO AWESOME IT PUTS PEOPLE ON THE FLOOR AND LETS ME DO SILENCER STUFF AND IT'S SO AWESOME EHAODIHVPLEIJSLIJFES". After a while, you find out that 3C is hella unsafe and that it really really really really really really hurts if people block it and then you start to feel sad that your favorite move isn't working anymore. So, now you're thinking "Oh man, now what am I gonna do? My awesome 3C isn't working like it did before and it earns me a free ticket on the pain train if people block it." So, you start considering using 6B, but you know, you don't like that overhead at all because it looks super duper slow and probably no one is going to get hit by that stuff, but you start using it anyway. To your surprise, 6B starts to work and you're super happy again because this combos into 3C and you have your fun Silencer combobs back. Then, to your horror, people start blocking 6B and your follow up 3C. This hurts like hell. Now, you are sad once again. People are always blocking high and predicting your 6B, and you're deathly afraid of using 3C because it hurts so much if people block it. "Oh why, cruel world? Why must Noel's good low attack be so risky?" you think. So, after playing awhile, you start wondering about using Noel's drive. You know, the sexy moves she does with Bolverk. But you think "Using Drive during blockstring? Isn't that super duper unsafe and will earn me everyone's freaking DP in retaliation?". Actually, no. Noel's drive isn't as vulnerable as you think. People hate being in Noel's drive. It is the BANE of their existence and they will mash like crazy because they want you to stop doing that and never ever ever ever ever ever EVER think about doing that again. One thing you can do is start using 6D as a low instead of 3C when you don't have meter. It still nets you pretty good damage and can get you about 4k in the corner. What if they block 6D, you say? Well, you use Optic Barrel immediately to reset pressure and try again. What if you don't want to use Optic Barrel? Then use d.5B>d.5C as a frame trap to punish people mashing because they will mash because everyone in the whole world wants Noel and her Drive dead. Now that you have them blocking during Noel's Drive from the fear of being frame trapped, you can then proceed to terrorize them with 6D and d.6B. Wanna do something even meaner? While they're blocking Noel's Drive, just rapid one of the hits and then smack them with a 6B or 3C or, heck, even another 6D or whatever you want to do. Almost no one expects Noel to rapid her Drive (I really don't know why). The best place to rapid is after a blocked d.6C, because people will most likely be mashing like crazy against that move. So, let's review. Use 6D instead of 3C as an overhead from time to time. Condition people to block Noel's Drive with d.5B>d.5C. Don't be afraid to use 6D or d.6B during Noel's Drive. And definitely try out rapiding Noel's Drive and continuing with your pressure. Drive mixups really aren't complicated. They are actually really fun to mess with, and surprisingly rewarding as well.

EDIT: Wow... Why did I write this much?

TL;DR: Use 6D instead of 3C when you don't have at least 50 meter; use d.5B>d.5C to condition people to block Noel's Drive; don't be afraid of using 6D and d.6B during Noel's drive; and definitely try out rapiding Noel's drive.

I still don't know what possessed me to write that whole wall of text.

[neojammerzx]

Don't really know where to write this but...do we have data for the (new) BBCP loketest changes for noel? Aside from what we already know -- new sexy outfit etc. If there is already, could you present the link?

[LegendLink]

Don't really know where to write this but...do we have data for the (new) BBCP loketest changes for noel? Aside from what we already know -- new sexy outfit etc. If there is already, could you present the link?

Dont think so, sorry

[M.D. Orona]

Don't really know where to write this but...do we have data for the (new) BBCP loketest changes for noel? Aside from what we already know -- new sexy outfit etc. If there is already, could you present the link?

I'm assuming this is what you're looking for. A bit of translation happened for this but nobody's copy/pasted Noel's changes from that massive 100-page thread yet.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14664-BlazBlue-Chrono-Phantasma-General-Discussion-Hype-Thread&p=1368415&viewfull=1#post1368415

[Fluck]

Just to add on to that post, I accidentally missed a line:

マズル>2B>6C>BハイダーのBハイダーで受身取られる

Muzzle Flitter -> 2B -> 6C -> B Silencer does not work, they can tech at the B Silencer.

[Litherain-XIII]

ok guys i think i found something regarding her changes someone help translate this stuff out id appreciate it.

http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1344259024/ (this one seems to even have the moves frame data for damage heat gain P1 and P2 info and combo ideas)

http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1332256878/l50

[confusedxphreak]

I did some rough translations for her changes yesterday, but take this with a grain of salt as my Japanese isn't fluent and I don't understand video game terms. lol. I'm going to try not to include anything that was translated in that other thread.

-CA has been changed (looks like its an attack now and no longer her invincible cross-up)

-Assault Through doesn't hit opponents farther away

-6A comes out slower

-5A attack level reduced?

-Optic Barrel A has been changed (I believe it says A is the old B and B is the old C. Keep in mind 236C is Chamber Shot now)

-Bloom Trigger does not wallbounce

-CR can be canceled with specials

-j2C follow-up puts you into a position similar to Bullet Rain (I'm assuming this is because j2C's trajectory is at a diagonal)

-Gatlings that work: 6C(2)>2D, 2B>6A

-Gatlings that do NOT work: 6C>6D, 6B>6C, d.6A>d.6C

There's also some speculation stuffs that I won't translate for now just in case something changes.

[DC]

Thanks. Not sure if these loketest changes are worthy of their own thread yet. Might make one later, we'll see.

[dualseeker]

These changes sound a little scary... But I'm sure these won't be too damaging to Noel's gameplay... We'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks for the translation, though ^__^! I really appreciate it!

[confusedxphreak]

NP. I read in the 4gamer article that people are under the impression that the game is focused around shorter combos, so we'll just have to see what happens.

[LunaKage]

Don't be too scared yet, this is only the first loketest, who knows what changes will really stick.

[Litherain-XIII]

idk luna. just by first impression it gives me the cold chills man we virtually lost nearly every combo route that made sense. its mind buggling but ima just wait it out and see what comes back and whats added new over time.

[LunaKage]

Despite all the odd nerfs, just getting Chamber Shot and RB Follow up is awesome enough for me to be happy.

[GenoWhirl]

I did some rough translations for her changes yesterday, but take this with a grain of salt as my Japanese isn't fluent and I don't understand video game terms. lol. I'm going to try not to include anything that was translated in that other thread.

-CA has been changed (looks like its an attack now and no longer her invincible cross-up)

-Optic Barrel A has been changed

-Bloom Trigger does not wallbounce

-Gatlings that do NOT work: d.6A>d.6C

There's also some speculation stuffs that I won't translate for now just in case something changes.

These changes are sad...seems kinda weird to place a specific limit on d.6A > d.6C

Edit: nvm 236C is basically new OB A but cooler

[confusedxphreak]

Don't get too hung up on the changes just yet, not only because a lot of changes are being made to CP and this is only the first loketest, but there are a lot of contradicting reports on the JBBS. Some are saying certain attacks link while some are saying it doesn't. I'll try to filter out the more recent ones.

[Litherain-XIII]

her d.5B now wallbounces opponents midscreen and also find this combo string interesting 2B > 6A > 6C > IAD > 5C > JD > d.6B >d.6C > d.5C...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZkSe9rblsQ&feature=autoplay&list=ULPFx5aFKte58&playnext=1

[confusedxphreak]

My additional notes:

-I can't really see clearly in that video, but did 6B go into 5D at around :40?

-2D's trajectory IS really strange...I can't believe it whiffs on a crouching Tager.

-New CA's animation looks like d.5B

[SkyKing]

Looks like they are really emphasizing less long combos that SMP could exploit, and hearing that this might also have the old CT combo system could also be a step in that direction. I'm just happy we have a j.2C that works as a follow-up to RB and as a stand-alone move. Looks like they shift the ranges of Optic Barrel so that A has B range and B has C range, so we still have utility in semi-zoning characters like Tager and Arakune. And they weren't kidding with 2D's arc height. I wonder what kinds of things we can apply with that move.

Also, if that 6C(2) > 2D was only speculation, then it's confirmed in the vs. Azrael video. They do 6A > 6C(2) > 2D > SR midscreen. Looks like this will be what replaces old OpticA combos for now.

[confusedxphreak]

^What do you mean by j.2C as a stand alone move? I'm under the impression that j.2C is a RB follow-up move only according to her move list. @.@