Kiba Report post Posted July 11, 2012 Discuss gameplay related stuff here. Elizabeth has not changed since the patch in terms of playstyle and combo, but she did get buffed! Here are the changes that have taken place: Elizabeth Changes = Icon: Icon position has been adjusted + Agidyne [214C or D] (C, D version): Elizabeth’s recovery time is shorter + Memento Mori [214214C or D]: Lowest guaranteed damage increased from 30% - 50% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 11, 2012 *gasp* what happened to everything? l was coming to lol at megidolaon doing 99,999 damage, but this is much more critical... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C0R Report post Posted July 11, 2012 The Dustloop database is a scary place, one wrong dialog box and poof! The entire sub-forum is gone. Nice recovery Kiba. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted July 11, 2012 They were accidentally deleted unforutnately. It's not so bad since I've managed to get them back, well 95% of it. I knew I should've saved the information you had for Elizabet's playstyle. My fault on that part I guess since I didn't follow my first instinct (as usual). I don't mind updateing the video thread, but I find making tables even more tedious. Everything shall be fully completed by tonight/tomorrow. Thanks C0R. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 11, 2012 yeah it looks good as new. l can rewrite it if you want l remembered the whole thing. l even have more reasons as to why she should stall for time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted July 11, 2012 That would be extremely helpful thank you very much! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 11, 2012 Elizabeth is zoner/momentum based. Her objective is to stall for time so she can gain access to her more powerful tools fullscreen. Her zoning tools are for harassment, and for approaching (maragidyne). Up close she is more grappler-centered. Her status effects, Fear and Paralyze, supplement her close range game by making Thantanos' command grab fatal counter and unjumpable, respectably, making it hard to counter especially in the corner. The grab is her main source of damage and conditioning the foe to fear it will set the pace in you favor for many matchups. Poison status isn't too useful at the moment. She has very strong strengths but very glaring weakness, and very low health. as she lacks pressure/mixup, she cannot afford any lapses in judgement or mistakes or it can, very quickly, cost her the round/match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 11, 2012 l added a few things to it and its not -exactly- what l wrote before but all the key points are there. oh yeah, i'll write up how time is on her side in a few. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted July 11, 2012 Fantastic, thanks a lot man I really appreciate it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 11, 2012 a turtler's wet dream: why she should stall -the most obvious reason: invigorate. sp = a stronger liz. the more sp you have the better/safer your pressure, mixup, approach, defense, pretty much everything is. -bursts are super important to liz and she relies on them heavily because of her tendency to get KO'd really quickly for a wrong move. stalling fills up the guage naturally. -she gets to feel out her opponent and sees how they react. the more info she gets from them, the better her chances to punish them, the stronger her pressure will be, and the more flustered the foe will get. you dont really want to 'guess' with liz if you dont have to, she'll be losing persona life all over the damn place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 11, 2012 ok i'm done for now. and np kiba :> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted July 11, 2012 Nicely put TD, thanks for that. I still need to add Elizabeth's gatling table to the data thread and some threads still need minor tweaks (like adding character balls or better spacing, etc; perfectionist at large), though it's still very much readable. I hope you guys will find the Elizabeth forum to your liking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted July 11, 2012 It's good and TD provided some nice insight on Elizabeth because I was genuinely worried about her! Looks like my pseudo-Lambda has been found! :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 11, 2012 yea lambda would be her bb counterpart. l was a little sad cause l thought rachel would be, but she has a little bit of rachel too with invigorate. with how good elizabeth is with momentum, she can really put the hurt on people if she gets thantanos' omnomnom going. it really eases my worry of her bad matchups (imo, it's looking like algis, naoto, yosuke, and mitsuru are going to be tough, but l cant be sure until we get the game and find out some strats). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mightfo Report post Posted July 12, 2012 Hey, I was wondering since eliz has that natural meter gain, are any of you aware of any particularly good rapid cancel mixup? Preferably true 50-50s. Could she use her whirlwind to get on top of the opponent and then rapid so that her landing location is ambiguous? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 12, 2012 there were some that kiba posted before but l forgot them. they were also deleted, which sucks. yes the whirlwind is a very basic example of a 50/50 mixup and heat with ja/2a. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted July 12, 2012 Luckily I remember a few. You have: -Garu > OMC > JA/2A mixup -SB.Agi > OMC > Mixup -Up close Zio (Any, but preferably SB) > Mixup While the opponent is frozen you also have mixup options without using heat (Think BB Jin when he freezes). It is especially effective in the corner, as you could go into 2D or drop combos for resets. For example: 2C > B.Zio > 5B > 5C(2) > 2C > B.Bufu > 2C > SB.Zio Ending here with SB.Zio would be good for the paralysis, but you have options when you have your opponent frozen. Personally, while they're frozen, I would do 2D > 5AA > Mixup (overhead, sweep reset since the combo will be heavily prorated, command grab etc). This is just an example of what I would do, and not only does the 2D helps to inflict poison, that next combo should either kill or leave them with very little HP. Not doing SB.Zio also prevents the heat cooldown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted July 13, 2012 Just an update. The Elizabeth forums have made a full recovery now so feel free to browse whatever you like. I just need to make very little tweaks to the video thread and I'll be satisfied. Enjoy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 13, 2012 those ice resets are great ideas. it just occured to me that she can do overhead - omc - low/overhead more than the rest of the cast. are there any good combos from the overhead? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted July 13, 2012 Ok I'm fully done haha. To answer your question TD, so far we have this: AOA~D > 5A > 5C(2) > 2C > B.Bufu > SB.Zio > 2B > JB > JC > SB.Garu > JC [4000 DM] [50 SP] I believe there is a better combo than this. I'm gonna assume that she can use the Sweep > C.Garu x2 for more damage like you saw last time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted July 13, 2012 I was checking the wiki and saw that Memento Mori is 6k dmg if the opponent is feared. Does that mean Elizabeth is somewhat like a Tager, with that command grab? Sounds like it will make for an interesting fighter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elochai Report post Posted July 14, 2012 I was checking the wiki and saw that Memento Mori is 6k dmg if the opponent is feared. Does that mean Elizabeth is somewhat like a Tager, with that command grab? Sounds like it will make for an interesting fighter. The only way I would draw a comparison to Tager would be with the amount of damage that MM does. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think MM is a command grab either, seeing how it's commonly used in combos (unless you can use command grabs in combos in this game; I wouldn't know). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 14, 2012 it's a command grab. the damage can skyrocket, but unlike tager's GETB, it can be jumped out on reaction, making it really unreliable outside of certain situations. this problem is (mostly) remedied because of the paralyze stat which prevents most jumps (mini jump may still be a problem) and backdash, which are the defensive measures taken to avoid grabs of this nature. l dont really like any of elizabeth's supers tbh. they all seem underwhelming imo. concentrate seems to be the most used but it takes life. really, 1 good combo and elizabeth will likely be in awakening with 100+ heat anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elochai Report post Posted July 14, 2012 Then I would stand corrected. I kinda agree about her supers though; her instant kill supers seem kinda gimmicky imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SansProtocol Report post Posted July 16, 2012 Concentrate isn't that bad. It puts you in Awakening so you get the defense boost, you can recover the Blue Health it takes away while you're guarding or have the opponent in a combo, and it'll increase your SP gauge to use Invigorate to its' fullest. The threat of Memento Mori alone is enough to make your opponent fearful of staying on the ground and eating a 2B starter instead. Yeah, I agree that the command grab super is a bit lacking but I think having it in her arsenal keeps an opponent on their toes. EDIT: I feel that if her Supers were really good, she might become way too good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
