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Kiba

[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

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you bring up excellent points. plus, concentrate's great ability to scout the foe's next option (like miracle jeanne, frkz) works with memento mori, 2b, and any other setups she may have in the future.

l have a question. after seeing this:

(midscreen combo)... bufu 5c(w) command grab from behind

l was wondering if zio, garu, and maragidyne(s) could be used with thantanos 'detached' from liz, since most of thantanos' normals work this way. l've never seen them used this way. l speculated that, either they couldn't be used at all or thantanos will just return back to her side upon activation: l'm hoping neither is the case.

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ah, it seems zio can indeed be used away from liz as shown vs mitsuru @ 3:23 in the akihabara tournament! how useful it will be l dunno, but more flexibility is always welcome

still dunno about the rest so it may take more vid watching to see

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Well, since MM is a command grab and does 6k if feared, it would surely be similar to a person being magnetized close-up against Tager. If Elizabeth has a person afflicted with fear, seems like her mind game goes through the roof, considering the fear is a pretty handy thing to have an opponent afflicted with.

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l have a question. after seeing this:

(midscreen combo)... bufu 5c(w) command grab from behind

l was wondering if zio, garu, and maragidyne(s) could be used with thantanos 'detached' from liz, since most of thantanos' normals work this way. l've never seen them used this way. l speculated that, either they couldn't be used at all or thantanos will just return back to her side upon activation: l'm hoping neither is the case.

The same applies to Maragidyne too (I think this is shown in the Liz mirror match i have in bold).

Edit: Here

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hazure metal is beast...

l wonder what cause a general decline in zoning with zio. l'd see the foe run in easily and many elizabeth players not attempt to zio. is there no dash recovery in this game like in bb (if you dont dash barrier)?

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I think it's just the large recovery on whiff and overall risk/reward that causes players to use Zio a bit less. j.B may have less reach but it's much safer and you can combo off of it at the optimal range. The A version of Zio is nice but you won't get much off of it at long range (where it's most useful, imo) and you risk your opponent making it whiff altogether which can really hurt. I like EX Zio though.

Then again, it's just an educated guess and it might be player preference.

EDIT: Also, good thing to note about Concentrate (to see what might be coming), TD. Little late but I didn't want to make a single post only to give you props for thinking about that.

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A.Zio is also punishable on block. Not sure if the same applies when full screen, but it certainly allows the opponent to get closer to you.That may also explain why I see a lot of players doing Zio > OMC.

I may use Zio to punish stuff rather than zone with it.

Also, I'm not sure if you guys looked at the tougeki lineup, but we have two Elizabeth players: Uchiyama and Masao. Masao can be found in some v.1.01 vids in the archive. Can't wait to see the footage.

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thanks sans.

yeah l figured it'd be more of a 'fullscreen punish' tool rather than a zoning one. the point i'm really getting to is that, it doesn't seem too good at preventing movement/harassment like l originally thought. like catching dash momentum as said earlier, being unsafe (what about b version, thats kinda safe right? besides the added startup), and doing decent damage as a projectile but with no followup afterwards, skewing the risk/reward as you guys said. goodbye dreams of zoning with zio... :<

oh yeah l saw the lineup. l was surprised -any- liz's made it in, and two did. i'll have to look them up in the archives

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I too initially thought that Zio can be used to zone. Now I don't even know what kinda playstyle Elizabeth has though I feel Kyle is spot on with the type he gave: Range + resources.

Also yea, B.Zio is safe on block.

Edit: Removed near corner combos from the combo thread because they're identical to her corner combos, and it's taking up unecessary space.

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You won't find anything for Uchiyama as he played Yukiko mainly pre-patch. Both of them have been off the radar post-patch, so the new footage soon will be the first stuff from them. Man, I hope they go far but the Mitsuru army is going to be hell.

And Elizabeth seems to be all about making the opponent second-guess themselves and become their own worst enemy. She's really good at conditioning an opponent as she only gains more meter the more they wait (don't have time to think, have to go in on her), her punish game is pretty good, and she can really screw with the opponent's reactions with meter.

Can't wait for post-Furious Action throw (with 150 meter for Confuse) into hard-to-block Garu set-ups. And the Fear status mindgames are sooooo good.

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Looks like I'm going to have to get back into DL again when the game drops. Yo, Kiba. Didn't you know you was running things here as well lol

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Sup, good to see you here.

I seem to be everywhere these days.

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Not sure if this has been discussed or asked yet, but I was wondering about 236C's ability to do a mixup. I don't think I've really seen people use it to setup 50/50's or whatever, but it's possible, yes?

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Not sure if this has been discussed or asked yet, but I was wondering about 236C's ability to do a mixup. I don't think I've really seen people use it to setup 50/50's or whatever, but it's possible, yes?

Believe it's not safe on block without spending the meter to OMC it on first hit to make it a 50/50.

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Believe it's not safe on block without spending the meter to OMC it on first hit to make it a 50/50.

With OMC, it would be really ambiguous, right? I was looking for something like that.

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With OMC, it would be really ambiguous, right? I was looking for something like that.

Yeah, they would only have a few frame to react to it so they'd literally would have to guess high or low after the OMC.

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With OMC, it would be really ambiguous, right? I was looking for something like that.

Kind of like how Lambda can do 4B > RC > 2B, for some fuzzy mix-up. Might not be the same since 4B is an overhead and she goes for the low if she does RC. But I do like using meter to create mix-up and if you're Elizabeth, psh like meter matters!

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there will be plenty of setups in due time. l personally cant wait to mixup using (sb/b) bufu for the high/low/throw stuff.

and l wanna learn them hamaon combos... or using sb garu to zip around the screen in style. for freedom!

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this... this throw combo.......

paralysis, fear, poison, what looks like 5k... l... l.... *faints*

this memento mori combo.... kills full health akihiko... l.... l... *faints*

who made this video and when can l marry them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDBmDDonynw

Kamoihito lol.

He's pretty cool. He did cool things with Relius and Naoto too. I made sure to list those combos in the combo thread just in case. The 4.9K corner combo is especially good.

I am also looking forward to creating some mixup after B.Bufu, and Garu > OMC > JA/2A. You could probably create some decent mixup using B/SB > Zio > OMC > high/low mixup like the way Yu can do it after Ziodyne > OMC, though of course it's not as strong.

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Poison combos may be the way of the future. Just watched a Liz match against Aki where I watched his health drain an additional 20% after the combo before he could manage to get a hit on her.

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Yea seriously.

I'm surprised I do not see Sweep > 2D used more often as a combo ender. Guaranteed poison whilst retaining the pressure advantage.

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lm guessing it's the amount of time needed for poison to really be dangerous. it does seem to be quite good damage wise, but not getting hit for 10+ seconds seems like an ordeal. even with pressure advantage there's so much mixup and pressure she can do before she's getting hit/blocking. unless she opts to run away. it just seems a little gimmicky imo. definitely looks worth it if the player thinks they wont get for awhile, and in combos which tend to last pretty long.

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After much thought I've decided that I'm going to make Liz my secondary after Chie. These combos and setups are just way too sweet for me to pass up

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anyone getting the jp version of p4 tomorrow? l have a few theory pressure/mixup/combo routes that could be tested/verified early. it could give whoever wants to test them a leg up in the competition!

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