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[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

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unfortunately that probably wouldn't work against Akihiko since Giovanni pointed out that he has an OS against Liz's mixup. Not sure if anyone noticed.

You mean 5a parry cancel?

From what I can tell, either 5a socks 5d in the face and he gets out with next to no recovery, or 5a hits 2c's armor and then parry catches the active frames. Luckily you can deal with it when they're knocked down due to the range of sweep/5b, but for midscreen I don't see a way around it yet.

2b > j.c > sb Garu seems to be a very reliable self-confirming string that's very safe. Because sb garu recovers in the air you still have your air option remaining, assuming you chose to move upwards, allowing you to airdash away with j.b or the like on block.

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I feel like I need to ask what the optimal 5D combo is. I see liz's using 5D -> 5b -> sweep -> Garu combos, but at the same time I see others completely ignoring it and opting for the j.A -> 5A land combo.

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the first one is better especially with fear

im not sure whats the reasoning behind ja 5a route, there is a reason though. perhaps 5d prorate is too low to do long combos without fear, or said long combos are very strict. 5d combo starters may also very depending on screen positioning and ch(fear)/non ch.

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Well if they're feared beforehand usually the smartest route seems to be wait for the wall bounce and then 5B, I probably should have clarified beforehand that the 5B combo I'm talking about is the one that stops the throw inertia. I figure doing this when they're feared is optimal for when they're cornered to maintain your advantageous positioning, but I still see the j.A land 5A combo done when throwing out of the corner. I'm just going to operate on the assumption that, sans positioning reasons, 5b -> sweep -> garu is the optimal choice.

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the first one is better especially with fear

im not sure whats the reasoning behind ja 5a route, there is a reason though. perhaps 5d prorate is too low to do long combos without fear, or said long combos are very strict. 5d combo starters may also very depending on screen positioning and ch(fear)/non ch.

j.a 5a feels better. It's just easier in general because it's almost independent of your spacing from Thanatos. When I first tried to combo of 5d it just came naturally. Jp players tend to go with the more comfortable combos.

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Well if they're feared beforehand usually the smartest route seems to be wait for the wall bounce and then 5B, I probably should have clarified beforehand that the 5B combo I'm talking about is the one that stops the throw inertia. I figure doing this when they're feared is optimal for when they're cornered to maintain your advantageous positioning, but I still see the j.A land 5A combo done when throwing out of the corner. I'm just going to operate on the assumption that, sans positioning reasons, 5b -> sweep -> garu is the optimal choice.

Don't wait for the wall bounce. You have to "make" it wall bounce by dashing forward, otherwise they will just fall and you miss out on the combo.

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In terms of difficulty to use effectively, how would anyone who has time to play P4A rank Elizabeth? I've been watching matches on youtube since she comes out and I gotta say she looks like a fun character.

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In terms of difficulty to use effectively, how would anyone who has time to play P4A rank Elizabeth? I've been watching matches on youtube since she comes out and I gotta say she looks like a fun character.

I'd rank her at around Moderate-Hard mode. This is taking into consideration there's still Very Hard and Hellish. The main challenge with Liz seems to be conditioning the opponent and living long enough to gain meter and potentially land a killer combo or two. You'll also have to transition from zoning and into mixing in thanatos 5D / letting thanatos take a hit while he's pressuring and then punishing with a 5B, (kinda reminds me of Dizzy bait w/ fish then punish) resource management, keeping in mind status ailments and stuff. there's lots to think about but when you're used to using zoners / resource characters, one'll feel right at home with her :D

She ain't brain dead, she ain't that hard to grasp, but letting her live on the other hand, is another issue. people with good yomi /mindgame capabilities should mesh well with her too.

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You mean 5a parry cancel?

From what I can tell, either 5a socks 5d in the face and he gets out with next to no recovery, or 5a hits 2c's armor and then parry catches the active frames. Luckily you can deal with it when they're knocked down due to the range of sweep/5b, but for midscreen I don't see a way around it yet.

Yea that's exactly it.

Well if they're feared beforehand usually the smartest route seems to be wait for the wall bounce and then 5B, I probably should have clarified beforehand that the 5B combo I'm talking about is the one that stops the throw inertia. I figure doing this when they're feared is optimal for when they're cornered to maintain your advantageous positioning, but I still see the j.A land 5A combo done when throwing out of the corner. I'm just going to operate on the assumption that, sans positioning reasons, 5b -> sweep -> garu is the optimal choice.

I can't get the timing of 5D > 5B > Sweep on an opponent who is not in fear, so I use the JA > 5A combo. If they are, I personally do go for the 5D > Wait for wall bounce > 5B > Sweep > Garu > etc combo. The most you get from a 5D is 4k without using SP, although the damage would be a little higher on CH. Not sure how much you can get using some SP.

On a side note, Akihiko can weave through Liz's 5B, since it's a projectile.

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I'd rank her at around Moderate-Hard mode. This is taking into consideration there's still Very Hard and Hellish. The main challenge with Liz seems to be conditioning the opponent and living long enough to gain meter and potentially land a killer combo or two. You'll also have to transition from zoning and into mixing in thanatos 5D / letting thanatos take a hit while he's pressuring and then punishing with a 5B, (kinda reminds me of Dizzy bait w/ fish then punish) resource management, keeping in mind status ailments and stuff. there's lots to think about but when you're used to using zoners / resource characters, one'll feel right at home with her :D

She ain't brain dead, she ain't that hard to grasp, but letting her live on the other hand, is another issue. people with good yomi /mindgame capabilities should mesh well with her too.

Thanks, when I pick up the game I'm gonna give her a whirl. I'm pretty okay at managing resources, played a lot of Arakune in BBCT, so maybe I'll have a shot lol.

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What is the activation time for mahamaon and mamudoon? I saw a combo and intro video with the japanese dub and it took roughly ten seconds but on the english intro video posted by atlus it only to about 2.5 seconds.

Here are the links for the videos: English version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy2FV06862g and japanese version:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVkiqkWryuI

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It's closer to 10 seconds, the other video edited out a large portion of the delay since it was only demonstrating what the moves looked like.

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Don't wait for the wall bounce. You have to "make" it wall bounce by dashing forward, otherwise they will just fall and you miss out on the combo.

Duly noted

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Some Elizabeth play on stream from Shinjuku Sportsland: http://ja.twitch.tv/adastream

Pre-recorded, but still quality matches so far.

Last match with kanji showed off that 2c -> Bufu -> IAD SB.Zio -> Dash -> 5c -> 2c -> B.Zio -> 5B -> 5C -> 2c -> Bufu -> j.C for 5.7k

25 SP and a non-CH start for 5.7k :O

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Has anyone found some "in general" weaknesses for Elizabeth? It seems like low health just doesn't justify her insane hitstun and damage when she gets the first hit in.

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I would also add a lack of good aerials. Her j.B is really good for controlling the space directly in front of her, but she cannot really do much about someone approaching her from above or below while in the air. There's pretty much no reason for her to ever jump in on someone, which really restricts her options of approach.

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j.b is a great jump in, it simply can't be used conventionally. It's best to hit with the recall portion after Liz has crossed over the opponent, making it neigh impossible to antiair, even against stronger 2b's.

As for on-demand air pokes, j.a has a good amount of horizontal range, whereas airthrow covers slightly below and slightly above her. J.b and j.d are also great to throw out when retreating from an advancing airborne opponent.

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I actually like using j.C to discourage anti-airs like Haku's Tsubaki does as it stops you outside of their AA range and allows you to hit them for the knockdown or a combo with meter and CH.

She has the tools, but they are not straight-forward like c0r said. I need to do more testing if I get the chance this weekend.

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i think i saw really low j.c>2a or sweep>stuff in one vid

Was the j.C -> 2a part of a combo? I know it's a part of the 5c(ch) -> B.Bufu -> IAD j.B -> j.C -> 2a -> 5b -> ender combo

I wonder if j.C on CH is combo-able, could be interesting for a potential frame trap.

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I'm having some trouble doing the combo 5AA/5B > Sweep > SB.Garu[3] > 5A/5B > 5C(2) > 2C > B.Bufu > B.Bufu > JC. After the Garu, how are you meant to connect 5B? The opponent is already too high in the air.

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If the opponent is too high your directional input is messed up. If you're doing SB.Garu you should just go for the standard garu elevator combo and bring them back down with D.Garu. Typically you want to hit them just before the end of D.Garu so you are closest to the ground and they are still in untechable time. For just SB.Garu I think you need to hold a 3 input so that you move through them, if you follow their arc up you have to use OMB to continue the combo.

Also, does j.D/5D benefit from the 2c damage buff?

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