[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

[MisoSowee]

Elizabeth really is turning into hakumen isn't she... Does alright against a good amount of people, but god forbid you get paired against x or y person though >_>

[xlolxlolx]

it feels like im fucking playing bridget when im fighting mitsuru.......

[Elochai]

I was never good at the Hakumen match-up, and I played Ragna <_<.

[SansProtocol]

You have to guess in the match-up when you're on the defensive. It sucks and it's not in your favor but the match-up isn't ridiculously bad.

And which version of Hakumen are we talking about here?

[Yannick]

CT.

P.S. - Small update; I hope to compile this information once I've tested every situation thoroughly but I wanted to put this out here to show progress.

5B, j.B, AoA, Ziodyne, Garudyne, and Maragidyne all destroy regular projectiles. After destroying projectiles, those attacks still retain all original hitboxes, so you don't lose hits from any multihitting moves by destroying projectiles. As far as I can tell, projectiles are destroyed during all active frames of all moves listed. I still need to interact with EX projectiles and supers.

[MisoSowee]

Yeah I'm talking about CT. He had 5-5 or 4.5-5 against a fair number of the cast, but nu and I think rachel completely decimated him :[

Still I love Elizabeth all the same. Gotta stick with it!

[SansProtocol]

5B, j.B, AoA, Ziodyne, Garudyne, and Maragidyne all destroy regular projectiles. After destroying projectiles, those attacks still retain all original hitboxes, so you don't lose hits from any multihitting moves by destroying projectiles. As far as I can tell, projectiles are destroyed during all active frames of all moves listed. I still need to interact with EX projectiles and supers.

Sweet, I love hearing all of these little tidbits.

Yeah I'm talking about CT. He had 5-5 or 4.5-5 against a fair number of the cast, but nu and I think rachel completely decimated him :[

Still I love Elizabeth all the same. Gotta stick with it!

OK, whew...good to hear. And that's the spirit!

[TD]

I question Mitsuru's existence .

so do l. here's to hoping she breaks a leg or a breast sometime in the future.

[Wing]

i astraled 10 people since playing this game

[Yannick]

That's why I kinda want some frame numbers so I can know good spots to IB into IK during poorly mashed blockstrings. :D

I think I may just grind that out in some more common situations, but there are so many different strings all these characters have.

[ryofoong]

Someone rage quit on me because my combo was taking too long and then messaged me saying long combos were stupid. Oh dear, the netplay.

On that topic, who loves how long Elizabeth's combos are, despite how she needs some real setups to get them going.

[xlolxlolx]

i astraled 10 people since playing this game

i asstrolled my friend at the session we had on thursday, get at me bro :P

[C0R]

Wakeup mortal is free against Yuu and Chie's Oki.

[Elochai]

Wakeup mortal is free against Yuu and Chie's Oki.

What are you referring to?

[Jet Set Dizzy]

I really am enjoying Liz, she's really fun to play. I'm utterly terrible right now, gotta spend some time in the lab.

[TD]

yu 5d, chie 2d

[Elochai]

yu 5d, chie 2d

Both of those are at least 3 hits?

[TD]

yes. yu's is 3 + his own attacks should he autopilot. chie's is like... idk, 20 hits or something. yu can delay his 3rd attack from the persona or himself... chie is just fucked if she uses it.

[Yannick]

So I've been doing some experimentation with Ghastly Wail and it's maybe a little inconsistent unless I'm missing something.

I may have missed something along the line, but I want to ask about this to see if it's just me. All of these scenarios are assuming raw Ghastly Wails--no comboing into or out of it. It seems that if you use Ghastly Wail on someone that isn't feared, you'll do 2.5K and fear them, which is how that's supposed to work. Now, it seems that if you use Ghastly Wail on someone who is already feared by any move other than Ghastly Wail, the super does 6.3K and removes fear, which is how that's also supposed to work.

What I find weird is that if you use Ghastly Wail on an opponent that's under the effects of fear from a previous Ghastly Wail, the move only does 4.2K and the opponent remains feared. Using Ghastly Wail again on the same opponent will loop them through the 2.5K and 4.2K damage states. I thought this may have been just a training mode quirk (Awakening for 2P dummy was set to Never), but took it into versus and found the same behavior. Just wondering if anybody ever noticed that.

[Juunee]

I believe the 6.3 is only achievable if you use 2c previous to memento mori/ghastly wail/NAGEKI. As for fear remaining on them after a 4.2k nageki I wouldn't be surprised if the fear application works differently based on what move causes it. I'm unsure but I remember at some point reading something about poison behaving differently depending on whether it was applied through 2d or shuffle time.

[C0R]

It's the 2c 50% damage buff that gives the extra 2k.

[xlolxlolx]

the calculation looks wrong tho, min dmg guarenteed is 1250, 2c buff adds 1375 to it but base dmg is 3k =/

[Yannick]

Damn, I'm super slow. Thanks guys. :D

As thanks for everyone answering my questions all the time, I'll post a damage chart for all of Liz's moves tonight. :D

P.S. - Yeah, the math isn't coming out consistently across the numbers we have so I'll keep trying to see what I can find. Gotta grind out her movement and Garudyne stuff, though. So much exploring with this character!

P.P.S. - Eff it, I don't wanna have it come down to later tonight and then I forget and look fraudulent. Here goes. I've tested everything multiple times for accuracy, but if you spot any mistakes or something doesn't look right, please let me know. I was thinking about adding values for Awakening, Counter and Fatal Counter, but I really have to work on some gameplay stuff with her, so I may come back to that later, but I don't think it's that necessary.

How to read this jank: Since most of Elizabeth's moves are multi-hitting, I've provided data on all hits for every move. For a move with the following data: Command x, +y (a/b), Command is the command for the move or the name of the move. X is the damage done by the first hit to connect, meaning that if you miss with the first three hits of a ten hit move, the first hit you connect with (the fourth hit of the ten hit move), will still do the damage listed by value x. Y is the damage done by all subsequent moves in a multi-hit move after the first hit has fully connected. A is the maximum number of hits that the move yields. B is the maximum damage that the move yields upon connected all hits.

The autocombo information follows the same format, but are slightly different. The second and third steps have a pipe (|) separating two sets of data. The first set of data is the raw data for that step in the autocombo not counting the previous step(s)--for instance, the first set of data for 5AA would be the numbers applied if your opponent blocked the first step of the autocombo, but did not block the second step. The second set of data is total data for the autocombo up to that step--for instance, the second set of data for 5AA would be the total data for the combo up to that point. I hope that made sense.

Also, for Maragidyne, some numbers are in parenthesis. The parenthesized numbers indicate that a multiple hits occur that carry the same amount of damage. A reading of 500, +100, +50(2), +20, +10(3) would indicate that the first hit does 500 damage, the second hit does 100 damage, the third and fourth hits do 50 damage each, the fifth hit does 20 damage, and the last three hits do 10 damage each. This example uses an eight hit move. Don't forget that if you miss with the first three moves, let's say, the move will only score five hits maximum starting from the fourth hit, but the damage calculation starts at the first step instead of at the fourth step.

Normals

5A 200

5AA 100, +50 (9/500) | (10/470)

5AAA 120, +60 (12/780) | (22/873)

2A 160

j.A 200

5B 150, +75 (9/750)

2B 450

j.B 180, +90 (6/630)

5C 800, +400 (2/1200)

2C 600 +Fear

j.C 1275

5D 900, +450 (2/1350) +Fear

2D 0 +Poison

j.D 900, +450 (2/1350) +Fear

Sweep 700

All-Out Attack 300

Maragidyne

Weak 300, +163, +156, +148(2), +140, +132(2), +124 (9/1443)

Strong 300, +163, +156, +148(2), +140, +132(2), +124 (9/1443)

Skill Boost 300, +163, +156, +148(2), +140, +132(2), +124, +117, +109 (11/1669)

Maziodyne

Weak 180, +90 (10/990)

Strong 180, +90 (10/990)

Skill Boost 134, +67 (20/1407) +Shock

Magarudyne

Weak 200, +100 (11/1200)

Strong 310, +155 (10/1705)

Skill Boost 280, +140 (11/1680)

Mabufudyne

Weak 800, +395 (2/1195) +Freeze

Strong 800, +395 (2/1195) +Freeze

Skill Boost 800, +416 (2/1216) +Freeze

P.P.P.S - Damnit, all my beautiful tabs are gone! I promise this was more organized! D:

[Juunee]

the calculation looks wrong tho, min dmg guarenteed is 1250, 2c buff adds 1375 to it but base dmg is 3k =/

Probably because the min damage is calculated from the c version which does 2.5k and that patch adjusted it's min proration to .5. The buff adding 1375 is 50% of the average damage of the c/d versions. Fatal bonus proration takes care of the rest

[xlolxlolx]

....no? c ver does 3k also o_O and fatal doesnt apply if they werent feared be4 the combo