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Kiba

[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

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oh my god that new garu loop. Still...you still need to sweep at the end of it and still apply the proper character specific garu direction. Even though it's good to know about this, thanks for posting this.

You should be able to omit the sweep D.Garu just do 2A 5B. Would lose some damage, but still serve as an easier confirm if you don't want to do [9~2] Garu loops

Oh also for this combo you need to jump cancel backwards in the corner to make space for 2A 5B

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Bace said the same. I was actually playing a bit ago in Omnipotent H's lobby, and dropped the 2B garu loop every time I tried. I suppose I gotta save this tech (as well as the pseudo sweep > 5D tech trap) for TSB next month.

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New Garu loop is definitely easier but uh... it needs to be Fatal Counter as far as I can tell (I have been able to reproduce the combo vid combos and all of them drop immediately when not FC).

It is nice to know and off some setups it is practical but for the most part the old Garu combo seem like they will still be best.

Tried out the SB.Agi -> OMC -> C.Agi -> Roll setup in casuals today and it seems legit hard to block because it is super ambiguous. The only problem with the setup isn't the mixup its getting people to block SB.Agi...

I attempted the Fatal Counter R-Action corner setup once but it didn't work so I am not sure how good that setup is yet. It does look cool at least lol.

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Hmm yeah, new Garu combo is mostly for Fatal 5D and corner throw...which happens somewhat often actually, given how Liz works.

I also tried out the D.Agi empty jump high/low from the vid, and yeah it only works on FC...so you need to end a midscreen combo early with 2C Zio and then go for D.Agi (which can be jumped out of).

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So, I did the new Garu loop off of 5D FC.

5D FC > j.B > 236D [2] > 2B > j.B > 236D [2] > 2AB > 236D [9~2] > 2A > 5B > 5C (2) > 2C > 214B > Memento Mori does 7011 DMG (not sure about meter).

On the other hand, 5D FC > 5B > 2AB > 236D [9~2] > 2A > 5B > 2AB > 236D [9~2] > 2AB > 5B > 5C (2) > 2C > 214B > Memento Mori does 6800 DMG.

So, the new Japanese loop is better in terms of swag AND in terms of overall damage (since we're adding an extra garu for 300dmg). The combo is okayish in difficulty; I find it that the range from which you j.B can make or break the combo. Getting 5D FC and running to get the wallbounce and doing 5B is way easier than trying to run and then jump back for the close j.B confirm. Just some thoughts.

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Keep getting stuck on that last garu--I think I might be putting it in too fast or something but it doesn't quite pan out as it should

Still, dat shiny combo--nice work guys

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Since the last garu is like a normal garu, it follows the character specific rules (if we're calling them rules). Try it on like Akihiko or Naoto for the easiest results.

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another useful thing is that the Fatal corner throw is easier to burst bait because it starts off with 2B instead of 5C...and you know they're gonna want to be bursting the 5-8k there if possible...

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So...I'll have to back out of this 4v4.

I cut my finger at work wednesday. It's pretty bad. I have 4 stitches in my finger right now, it won't be healed for at least 3 weeks.

And it's on my middle finger, which i use a lot when playing fighting games ;_;.

I'd post pictures, but it looks pretty nasty and i'm sure people don't want to see it, lol. Hopefully someone can take my spot ;_;. Sorry guys

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hmmm so off FC that garu loop is better, but the ender still follows the same rules as the regular one...I think in that case Id go for the new garu loop instead, because you¡ve already added some more damage before the last rep even if you drop it (like let's say vs Chie...fck chie).

There's an event tomorrow I'll try to get some matches recorded, they might not play Persona though :(, but you never know. Also I've been kinda busy reading/watching Amane stuff, but I still play Liz =)

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So after playing some matches today, it's come to my attention that all one must do to beat Elizabeth is down-back all day, and jump the 5D. When you actually open someone up, they can just resort to not teching or pressing like 5B to break thanatos when you go for oki. I suppose I'm crying over nothing, but I kinda feel frustrated that after playing the same people for eons, they know how to defend against Liz too well.

I'm just curious as to why this is the case. I mean, I suppose it's supposed to be "balanced" being that Liz does big girl damage, but when you take in to account that Liz has low life, poor defense, and the only pressure she has are gimmicks, it feels a tad skewed. I wonder how long ASW thought it would take players to figure out how to defeat this character. With that being said, there's still a shitload of stuff that we don't know about Liz, but I'm just hoping that it'll be her saving grace.

tl;dr - Why doesn't Liz have decent pressure or mixup :(?

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Going back to when it was asked what could be done to make Liz better, think her having a way to afflict rage on the opponent could possibly help. Since she has such weak pressure/mixups, them not being able to block for a short moment could help, yet could also backfire since she already has such low health, taking more damage won't help.

If it did happen, it'll probably be another gimmicky move that could easily be avoided.

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I've given up on wishful buffs for Elizabeth. Just going to take my top tier beatings until a balance change happens.

The catharsis of defeating those top tier whores is relatively pleasing though, especially when they hate message--*cough *cough CaButler *cough--besides an Elizabeth with a lot of better options is almost unimaginable at this point to me, it's like looking into the ark of the covenant

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So I got myself recorded for an hour tonight. http://www.twitch.tv/eflsafehouse/b/342507549 Starts around 1:06 and goes to like 2:12? First couple matches are my friend's Chie, then about six against Teddie and the rest against a Yu. After the break it's me again for another ten games but I'm just trolling a KOF guy from around here who bet his friend a beer he could beat me. If anybody wants to watch that's cool, if not it's not that special anyway. I DP too much and have some bad confirms (need to work on 2B -> DGaru starters, usually I realize right away they're gonna fall out and just stop but I know I can get more, and far 5D hits, although sometimes I let them go on purpose bc I want them to fall in the corner), but sometimes I'm still not sure what else I can do.

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So after playing some matches today, it's come to my attention that all one must do to beat Elizabeth is down-back all day, and jump the 5D. When you actually open someone up, they can just resort to not teching or pressing like 5B to break thanatos when you go for oki. I suppose I'm crying over nothing, but I kinda feel frustrated that after playing the same people for eons, they know how to defend against Liz too well.

I'm just curious as to why this is the case. I mean, I suppose it's supposed to be "balanced" being that Liz does big girl damage, but when you take in to account that Liz has low life, poor defense, and the only pressure she has are gimmicks, it feels a tad skewed. I wonder how long ASW thought it would take players to figure out how to defeat this character. With that being said, there's still a shitload of stuff that we don't know about Liz, but I'm just hoping that it'll be her saving grace.

tl;dr - Why doesn't Liz have decent pressure or mixup :(?

This is the exact reason why I dropped her and picked up Yukiko. Although, those new Garu loops look mighty fine, and I'll come back for that.

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So after playing some matches today, it's come to my attention that all one must do to beat Elizabeth is down-back all day, and jump the 5D. When you actually open someone up, they can just resort to not teching or pressing like 5B to break thanatos when you go for oki. I suppose I'm crying over nothing, but I kinda feel frustrated that after playing the same people for eons, they know how to defend against Liz too well.

I'm just curious as to why this is the case. I mean, I suppose it's supposed to be "balanced" being that Liz does big girl damage, but when you take in to account that Liz has low life, poor defense, and the only pressure she has are gimmicks, it feels a tad skewed. I wonder how long ASW thought it would take players to figure out how to defeat this character. With that being said, there's still a shitload of stuff that we don't know about Liz, but I'm just hoping that it'll be her saving grace.

tl;dr - Why doesn't Liz have decent pressure or mixup :(?

I was this way for a while too.

Then, every time it happens, sometime very soon after you get a few godlike reads and string together a set of wins and you don't want to drop the character.

She reminds me so much of the idea of marvel in a much, much more fair character. She's still fun, but eventually you realize that when people know all your gimmicks, you get 1, maybe 2 chances a round, and if you're not there to punish, or you drop your combo, or you can't kill them, then, well, it's over :v:

So I got myself recorded for an hour tonight. http://www.twitch.tv/eflsafehouse/b/342507549 Starts around 1:06 and goes to like 2:12? First couple matches are my friend's Chie, then about six against Teddie and the rest against a Yu. After the break it's me again for another ten games but I'm just trolling a KOF guy from around here who bet his friend a beer he could beat me. If anybody wants to watch that's cool, if not it's not that special anyway. I DP too much and have some bad confirms (need to work on 2B -> DGaru starters, usually I realize right away they're gonna fall out and just stop but I know I can get more, and far 5D hits, although sometimes I let them go on purpose bc I want them to fall in the corner), but sometimes I'm still not sure what else I can do.

Advance note: Take everything I say with a grain of salt because I'm bad :v:

First game was good, you did pretty well, I personally would have set up Meaty 214C pressure, or a j.C -> 2C to force a fatal counter reset since Jamaal wasn't teching, but that's just me.

After the first couple games I noticed that you got in a real hurry to get out of pressure. Maybe I'm the odd one here, but I feel like you got hit with a LOT of counterhit/obvious setup trades or traps because the second someone backed off of you or delayed you were immediatly mashing. Like Game 3 (or 4 I can't remember) Jamaal got a hit on you, put you in the corner (off a counterhit) then did a IAD backwards expecting a roll, ran in, and got ANOTHER counterhit (I would guess because of a 2B mash), almost killed you, then got ANOTHER counterhit trade against a 2B.

Obviously, work on your confirms, but they seemed pretty good (better than mine :v:)

Finish your plate when it comes to combos. You dropped quite a few important combos, some at really important points. Also, too many times you go for her gimmicky 5D resets instead of taking guarunteed damage. People were really expecting it torwards the middle/end.

I hate to generalize so much but if I made a specific list I feel like every one of my notes would be 1 of these 3 things. So, work on those and I think you'll be much better off!

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Well I do agree that her mixup and pressuring is pretty bad, but after watching that video i decided to be a bit more offensive with liz her self by tickthrowing and stuff. That with the maragidyne OMC -> C. Maragi and stuff was really helpful.

Although i did suffer what everyone else is suffering at a local fightan meeting last week when this chie just smacked my 5D on reaction. Regardless im gonna stay on the Elizabeth ship if it sinks or not. I wonder what changes she'll get in P4A2 or future patches.

While im on the topic of patches, i really hope the next patch doesnt break the game like it did with BBCS2.

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