[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

[AeternumSomnium]

Aeternum figured it out after umai said this to him. I know he figured it out since he used it twice on me in one match...

I'll have to try that, seeing as I never drop the garu 5B sweep combo. That combo isn't hard, but this one seemed like it was. I assume it's because you've to jump instead of just running up to Thanatos and hitting 5B. Shoutouts to Umai once again.

Lol

Yeah no seriously Umai's advice helped amazingly (Thanks again Umai), in fact sometimes I'll jump when Thanabro throws and think I'm going to miss and STILL land the combo, that timing is THAT insanely vital

[godofwar7]

Well I have confirmed that I was indeed jumping too early.

I've landed it a few times now. Next is to get it consistently and then the practice the followup.

I think the key time frame to jump is right before Thanatos throws or at the same time.

[AeternumSomnium]

I usually try to jump right before he throws, letting the jB loose Immediately--that way on the ascension up you loop them in and have enough time to jA on your way down

Or at least that's how I think it works; once that lands the follow up is easy sailing

[godofwar7]

Well yes if he already thrown, then its already too late as the body just flies by too fast.

But I think if you jump in the 3 or so frames(rough estimate coming from someone who has no clue about how many actual frames there are) when he's in the act of throwing it'll probably work. And then the 3 or so frames(again rough estimate) before he begins the act of throwing is also viable.

Youre right about the followup being easy though.

I seem to have a problem with not using j.b early enough though... :/

I'll have to try that, seeing as I never drop the garu 5B sweep combo. That combo isn't hard, but this one seemed like it was. I assume it's because you've to jump instead of just running up to Thanatos and hitting 5B. Shoutouts to Umai once again.

Wait youre supposed to run up to Thanatos in that combo?

oh for when youre halfway across the screen.

[DairyDude]

Biggest problem I usually have with that is the opponent teching off the ground after the j.C. I think it's mostly cause of playing online and my internet connection sucks. I can do it fine almost all the time in training.

[Elochai]

Masha'Allah. I was able to do it a few times in a row, but I still have to grind it out for it to become super consistent. Before, I was jumping towards the other character, usually allowing them to go over me and missing the j.A. Jumping straight up when Thanatos throws usually nets me the j.A.

edit: dunno if I should post these in the combo thread (since I dunno if they're optimal or not) but from FC air throw:

FC air grab > One More! Burst > (66 2B > j.B > d.Garu [2]) x2 > 2AB > d.garu [9~3] > 2A > 5B > 5C (2) > 2C > b.bufu > AOA > Ghastly Wail

FC air grab > 66 5A > (2B > j.B > d.garu [2]) x2 > 5A > 5C (2) > 2C > b.bufu > AOA > Ghastly Wail

FC air grab > OMC > j.B > d.garu [2] > 2B > j.B > d.garu [2] > 2AB > d.garu [9~3] > 2A > 5B > 5C > 2C > b.bufu > AOA > Ghastly Wail

[godofwar7]

You may as well post it. The kanji combo thread is like 5 times bigger than ours! And their subforum happens to be dead

[Elochai]

Copy & paste time, goooooo.

[Runyst]

new elizabeth player here, I'm always getting my ass kicked by super reversals especially near the end of the round against people like yu

what do

still working on the basic garu loops but I have the standard C x2> 2C> B bufu> SB Agi> 5b> C x2> jC down to a pat

only drops if I'm so nervous that I'm shaking now :P

[Elochai]

Well, if you're always getting beat by reversal supers in actuality, then bait them. If you have 100 meter in the game deciding round, you can always 222CD Yu's Ziodyne (not everyone knows that you can OMC Ziodyne and not be killed). I also find it that you should keep some type of distance between you and your opponent on wake-up. If you're ending combos with j.C, go for meaty 2C or 5D on their wakeup. That way, Liz is relatively safe but Thanatos may catch them being honest, or mashing a button (if 2C hits them).

[godofwar7]

I've been trying to figure out some tech for mamudoon, but I fully agree with you now. That super is a P.O.S.

There is absolutely no way to set it up other than hoping the other player doesn't attack you, the recovery is way too long!

@New guy- The answer is to hold back a little when you know they have meter. How do they get the super off is a better question. I suffer from getting by wakeup supers due to myself being too offensive and liz with poor oki. but if you're just getting punished for using maziodyne or maragidyne from long range, simply use them less when you see they have meter since they know they can punish it. for example its never safe to use mazio on a yu with meter unless he's airborne, because he can always flip out his own ziodyne.

Or maybe you're getting ziocared into cross slash. nothing you can do about that except block the ziocar first.

Also learn a corner combo. My winning percentage increased dramatically after learning mine. Now its just bad instead of godawful

[Elochai]

Corner combos aren't too hard, Omni. The oki off them is where I find some type of problem lol. If I'm ending them with j.C, I usually opt for IAD whiff 2A and then grab, since they're feared from the 2C prior in the combo. Most people would still block after the whiffed 2A thinking I'm doing a blockstring, so they'll get grabbed. If I get a 2C ender, I'll usually throw out 214C, or another 2C. If I'm doing Zio > 5C, I can just try a j.D reset. I dunno, the oki is the hard part to me.

[godofwar7]

Thats right, theyre not hard, thats why he should get to learning one or two right away. All my big boy damage comes from the corner. Love that corner.

I normally just switch to thanatos pressure after the ender in my corner, which is where their wakeup supers catch me, or in mitsurus case coup, or in akihikos case corkscrew. I finally realized to back the fuck up when i have labrys in the corner so that her dp doesnt reach, so wonderful.

I should opt for 5D more since they are still shocked.

[Elochai]

Since we're talking about corner combos....

Why is Bace so damn smart ?

[godofwar7]

cuz bace is da gawd?

But not even bace da gawd can figure out a tech for mamudoon.

wonder why bace couldn't go to nec. Didn't see a single elizabeth while watching the stream of nec. so sad.

[Elochai]

Two Elizabeths went IIRC, Starlight and Eshi. I didn't get to see Eshi play since I went to bed really early last night, but Starlight needs to learn the character better. Every time he hit 5C in a combo, he went to Maziodyne A. He could've bodied so many people. Also, I lol'd when he tried to do 214CD > Memento Mori.

[godofwar7]

I was aware that eshi went, but i guess he didn't make it into the top 32, which is when i started watching the stream.

A naoto and a labrys made it into the top 8, but not a single liz in the top 32(assuming they streamed all the matches).

[Elochai]

Yeah, I wish I would've went lol, but I'm broke as hell (damn Zone of the Enders LE making me buy it and shit). I believe I could've got somewhere, but in my experience, I always have to play killers early on in tournaments. I remember my first ever tournament, I played Lich for my first match in losers, and got bodied.

I wonder how Eshi did though.

[Kiba]

Thanks for the vid. Cool stuff.

[Runyst]

Well, if you're always getting beat by reversal supers in actuality, then bait them. If you have 100 meter in the game deciding round, you can always 222CD Yu's Ziodyne (not everyone knows that you can OMC Ziodyne and not be killed). I also find it that you should keep some type of distance between you and your opponent on wake-up. If you're ending combos with j.C, go for meaty 2C or 5D on their wakeup. That way, Liz is relatively safe but Thanatos may catch them being honest, or mashing a button (if 2C hits them).

what do you mean by OMC Ziodyne?

It never occured to me to use her IK because I assumed it requires a fast reaction or just a bad opponent but I'll try mixing it in to freak people out

learned to do 2c/5d on wake up over the last two days playing online and starting to get the hang of going into awakening every time I manage to get them in the corner for the AOA> OMC> Momento Mori corner combo

loving it :D

[Elochai]

OMC Ziodyne as in cancelling it with ABC as soon as it hits 222CD. It's quite stupid that it works that way, but it does.

Liz's IK is okay, it beats a lot of people who are inexperienced with it or who do dumb things. At any rate, 2C/5D/5C are pretty much all you can do for meaty attacks, unless you're doing some type of super yomi setup.

Memento Mori does 2.6k~ under max proration as well, so don't go from perfecting someone into awakening if it won't kill them, lol. Also, after Memento Mori, you can do a 5A > 2B AUB reset. It's pretty cool.

[Runyst]

Oh god that teddy barrel lol. Wait so you can omc ziodyne if Yu just goes into his super and your ziodyne hits the invulnerability frames is what I'm getting?

Currently still playing around with awakening/mind charge timings. I've been using mind charge whenever I hit 50-40% hp for today to see if the additional options help me out at all. This a bad idea? I'm starting to see how mind charge is used as a pause button and god damn it's cool for that.

Been practicing the basic corner combo where you go 5Cx2> 2C> B. Bufu> Mind Charge> AOA> OMC> Momento Mori. Just need to practice it some more so I won't whiff the Momento Mori when I feel pressured. That damage is beautiful ;_;

Completely forgot to ask but what's AUB? I've been lurking these forums for 3 weeks and I haven't seen that term before.

[Elochai]

Sorry if what I meant came out wrong. If Yu hits Liz with his Ziodyne super while Liz has Megiadolan active, Yu can OMC his super, return to neutral, and he won't die. I hope I'm conveying this better lol, I always have a problem with explaining stuff.

Mind Charge to pause the game is godlike. Shoutouts to Giovanni for putting me on to that.

A tip for the Memento Mori combo is to do the 214214 motion while AOA is coming out, so when you OMC, it's something like 5AB > 214214ABCC (I probably didn't explain this well either, lol).

AUB = air unblockable. Since 5A will make them tech mid-air, and since you can't block the first 5 frames you're airborne, 2B blows them up. You can follow up with 2B > j.C > 236CD [8] > 236D [2] > 2AB > 236D [9~3] > 2A > 5B > 5C > stuff.

[godofwar7]

He lying to you. Liz IK is crap.

Only use it if you feel like wasting 100 meter and/or making the other player waste 50 meter. Well when i put it that way, its pretty good for making people waste meter.

oh god this guy can do BBufu AoA Omc ghastly wail already. he already better than me. I really should grind it out, but I'd have to reconfigure my goto corner combo D:

I suppose i should give some advice as well. Instead of going straight to BBufu after 2C int he basic corner combo you mentioned, you can replace it with either B Zio, or Ex Zio which provides enough wallstick for you to follow it up with 5C , and then you can go to 2c BBufu etc.

[Elochai]

Omni makes a good point. How do you guys feel about this?

Shoutouts to Tae Song Kim lmao.