[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

[spineshark]

I got gate-keeped by a Naoto in my pool. I wanted to play Marlinpie and body him so badly, but it wasn't meant to be. Another Liz player, The Arm, came from south florida. He's also good but got eliminated by a Chie.

Man, that sucks. I lost to a Naoto too, one I assumed played Dacidbro in the first round because the rest of the pool looked pretty easy. I tried playing Yosuke because I don't know the matchup, both our Naotos gave up back in August lol. I shouldn't have been in losers in the first place though, I choked horribly against another Akihiko too. Two third rounds lost by about 100hp each time despite dominating game 2 completely. I'm usually too scared to tech so I just got tick thrown all day.

[godofwar7]

Can you really OMC Yosuke's Kunais? I feel like he would have to see it coming for it to be pulled off. I'm jelly at how some of the cast can use their IK's like a super reversal.

@Elochai: God dammit so many things that can't be done if blocked ;_;

I'm starting to realize there's a lot of East Coast people here.

You actually can do bufu after 5C on block, it just won't be a blockstring and thus will not save him from people who go after him quickly enough. However it is useful against people who respect 5D too much and jump immediately after blocking 5C.

What you can do is go into 2C quickly if you see that they blocked the first hit of 5C. they will have been pushed back and thanatos will be closer to you so you can cover him with 5B.

[Elochai]

Doesn't 5B to cover Thanatos only work in the corner? I wish 5C was special cancelable on block ;_;.

@Spine: You did your best though, and that's all that matters. We all get tourney nerves. Naoto v. Liz is a fairish matchup though, it's super turtely for both sides. You just gotta pick the right time to go in (with d.garu loops).

[godofwar7]

Well I have actually never tried it, as I just let them break Thanatos, and then throw Thanatos at them again which most likely results in them breaking him again, then I do something random to confuse them after which I followup with step 1.

But in theory(?) Thanatos cancelling straight away into 2C would put him closer to liz than to the enemy so covering him with 5B should work in warding them off. i think? People shouldn't be that hellbent on breaking Thanatos anyway.

[UmaiCakes]

You actually can do bufu after 5C on block, it just won't be a blockstring and thus will not save him from people who go after him quickly enough.

Another option I find sort of useful is j.C after 5C block...if they chicken block to avoid 2C and 5C, j.C will get airblocked and force them back on the ground to resume with 5C/5D/2C

Alot of characters can block j.C and break Thanatos with a falling air normal though

You can also OMC 5C (with 2ABC) and do Bufu to catch chicken block. 5C OMC or 2C OMC seems to be really crucial to Liz pressure to catch the easy ways out of her mixup and prevent Thanatos from being broken too much, plus she gets so much meter anyways

[godofwar7]

So I've been wondering, does 2B jC D Garu work off any air hitconfirm? or are there some conditions needed?

I seldom use 2B as anti-air and when I hit it, I almost always get nothing off it.

[TheArm05]

2B jC D.Garu never works since D.Garu starts up too slow. C.Garu works but you can't combo unless you OMB/OMC. The normal route is to just use SB.Garu to combo off of 2B jC. Also you should be using 2B like it is going out of style. It is your best move.

Yosuke can OMC his kunais to make them safe from Liz IK. I don't think there is anything that can't be safe to Liz IK with OMC although some moves you have to OMC real fast since they hit so rapidly.

Oh the tech Zomb was talking about is making the combo pathway 5C > 2C > B.Bufu > stuff burst safe. Normally if they know the matchup they will burst during the start of B.Bufu since Liz has so much recovery she can't punish the burst. However if you use SB.Bufu the armor from SB.Bufu eats the burst and resets the combo (for a pretty mean fatal counter combo). If you are going for the kill and have extra meter to spend or you notice they like bursting B.Bufu this is some good tech to use. Be careful though because Thanatos doesn't take the step forward that he does with B.Bufu so it can whiff if spaced wrong.

[spineshark]

2B canceled straight to DGaru (5A 5C etc.) connects on counterhit and while it's not solid play I do it a lot in general for free pickups because many people aren't ready to tech before the tornado touches them unless they're mashing (in which case they probably got counterhit...). For me a lot of my process recently has been about trying to figure out what the other guy doesn't know more efficiently because you can win really free against most people if they don't understand basic things. The problem is if you spend too much time unsuccessfully testing their ignorance then you'll get punished for it, so it's kind of a trade-off. Obviously I want to play more solid in general too but I always feel like I need more shenanigans.

That SB Bufu thing is good though since I just explained to my friend last week that he should burst during specials if he's going to because they leave me in recovery for too long haha

[Elochai]

Why do I never contribute any new tech? Good shit with the Sb.Bufu burst safe though, Arm.

[godofwar7]

ah so they were using SB Garu and not D Garu in those combo vids. I should get to practicing it then, I do want to 2B more.

[Runyst]

what the fuuuuuuu

SB Bufu has super armor what

that's pretty damn awesome to know

[Elochai]

Are there any double Mind Charge combo routes whilst being Persona broken?

[bace]

5b sweep mind charge 5b sweep mind charge

[Elochai]

Yeah, I used to use that but I realized you couldn't 2A after the second mind charge. I just need combos to kill time.

[bace]

No, you literally just do 5B sweep mindcharge and link from the mindcharge with 5B again and do that as many times as you want. End that with 2B into her air combo. I thought I had this on my youtube a while ago but I guess i never put it up lol

[Elochai]

For some reason I never got that to work. But now that I'm seeing it in video, I'm like what the fuck lol.

[AeternumSomnium]

So, after stomping some people in a room last night (I imagine three of them were friends) I got an angry message saying that Elizabeth is the most overpowered and cheap character in the game and etc. etc. butthurt etc.

I have never wanted to bitch slap someone more than when I read that--that being said though, does anyone really think any character in this game is overpowered? I mean legitimately op?

I mean hell, I don't even find Mitsuru overpowered and I HATE HATE HATE her beyond all reason.

(btw I thought about posting this in P4a general but I figured it may start a war and we don't need that--besides at least here everyone mains/subs with the same char.)

[Elochai]

While some people may think that P4A 1.02 is "questionable" in it's balance, I would disagree. In some fashion, every character has some "cheap" or "overpowered" gimmick. This makes the game fair, since if everyone is along the lines of quasi-overpoweredness, then everyone is somewhat equal. However, some characters (lolaigis) have more BS than the others.

Don't get me wrong though, I honestly dislike every match-up in this game (and that's probably because Liz is my waifu till the day I die). I do however like playing good players, and there have been numbers of times where I was getting bodied, but I couldn't help but break out in clapping or smiling because I was utterly impressed. Happened today against an Akihiko, even.

I dislike those general threads . Why do I never get hatemail? Then again, a lot of people avoid me because of my WL lol.

[Runyst]

I avoid playing Elizabeth when I bring it for casuals at my school. People start calling her op/cheap just because I know how to play the game and they don't. :\

For some odd reason, getting bodied by a Yu or a Kanji doesn't make them call op but Elizabeth does.

[Elochai]

Well, without match-up knowledge, Liz will shit on everyone lol. More so than other characters will, I believe. She has ridiculous damage output from a lot of moves (with 75 meter and some health, you can get 6.5k off of 5B starter), and a lot of her gimmicks catch newer players off guard.

Understandably, a friend of mine thought she was S tier until he grinded out the match-up with me. Now, he doesn't really think Liz is very good lol. I kinda agree.

[AeternumSomnium]

Don't get me wrong though, I honestly dislike every match-up in this game (and that's probably because Liz is my waifu till the day I die). I do however like playing good players, and there have been numbers of times where I was getting bodied, but I couldn't help but break out in clapping or smiling because I was utterly impressed. Happened today against an Akihiko, even.

Yeah no I enjoy a stomping from someone who is actually really good and knows what they're doing, bonus points to them for doing something I've never seen--no salt, just awe lol

I keep telling bitches that Liz is SSS tier waifu but everyone keeps spouting the Mitsuru bs

Anyways, it's funny you say that Runyst I have something somewhat similar I've noticed

When I do the bodying--be it to the host or what I'm assuming is their friends I get kicked a lot of the time--or called cheap and op. Yet, when I'm the rag doll and am getting bodied EVERYONE wants a piece lol. That's why I applaud hosts who are neutral and fair in that aspect because bloody hell it seems rare online sometimes.

[godofwar7]

I hate all matchups except chie. I like playing against chie. Mutsuru TOO OP!! No seriously Mitsuru against liz is total bullshit!

Elochai left me in awe when he kept bodying at first. Your W/L is actually what made me want to challenge you. lol

Also

Oh the tech Zomb was talking about is making the combo pathway 5C > 2C > B.Bufu > stuff burst safe. Normally if they know the matchup they will burst during the start of B.Bufu since Liz has so much recovery she can't punish the burst. However if you use SB.Bufu the armor from SB.Bufu eats the burst and resets the combo (for a pretty mean fatal counter combo). If you are going for the kill and have extra meter to spend or you notice they like bursting B.Bufu this is some good tech to use. Be careful though because Thanatos doesn't take the step forward that he does with B.Bufu so it can whiff if spaced wrong.

This shit too good!! I did against ciddypoo and it worked liked magic. Couldn't followup though because I didn't expect to have to move.

I tried to do it again where ciddypoo pobably wasn't gonna burst just to test it out again, but it completely whiffed, so yeah spacing is weird without any practice.

I think I'm too fair when it comes to hosting. I let people who I know are gonna lag, badly, stay and fight. I just fight everyone who comes. never run. until maybe after a few matches of being bodied. Cannot let myself get bodied more than 10 times in a row ya know. some sort of subconscious conscious limit ive placed on myself.

[spineshark]

Just realized nobody had answered this.

Can you really OMC Yosuke's Kunais? I feel like he would have to see it coming for it to be pulled off. I'm jelly at how some of the cast can use their IK's like a super reversal.

Yeah, you can. It's kinda stupid because it basically turns them into the SB version for twice as much meter (and they have to touch something), but I just checked, he can OMC at the flash and block the tagback. SB Kunais also do it automatically if you don't try to move or anything. Lame.

[godofwar7]

Just wait until you can do some of these combos and then they'll really start raging aeternum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tOpoGXCVTk

[AeternumSomnium]

Just wait until you can do some of these combos and then they'll really start raging aeternum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tOpoGXCVTk

Lol I already get salt shakers thrown at me by some people online, if I could show them how much you guys stomp me they would probably stop.

Either way, dem combos were nasty shiny, gotta training mode it up now