[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

[godofwar7]

Yep. It's all about showing off, but also practical. You can probably throw in a mind charge if necessary.

And yeah, Thanatos is still airborne because of the OMB. But if you do it to early or too late(or something i dunno) then Thanatos will reappear on the ground instead of doing the SB. Agi while in the air and that means you just dropped the combo. He must be in the air in order for the the SB. Agi to catch them falling from the OMB.

Something about him being airborne makes him send out agi faster and it starts off closer to the falling guy i think.

No clue what you're talking about with Garu

[Elochai]

With the Garu elevator combo, the usual route is 5B > 2AB > sb.Garu [9/8~2] > d.garu [2] > 2AB > d.garu [9~3], right? So for the sb.garu, instead of doing [9~2], I omit the [2] and just do [9], doing d.garu [2] after. Going a tad down throws me off, and usually makes me do 5A after the d.garu.

I think the way that sb.Agi works is that since Thanatos was present in the OMB, he's still considered "out". It's kinda hard to explain, but look at ending a combo with 2C > sb.Agi. The Agi is faster than normal because Thanatos doesn't have to appear out of that blue haze to cast Agi.

[godofwar7]

I'll have to give that a shot then. But if you do it that way, I think you're might end up too far away from the mahaomon in this specific combo?

Yep thats a good explanation. He doesn't have to reappear, and can just go straight into the move. Like 5C jC. Once you land you can go right back to 5C and he'll be the same spot he was. Same thing applies to this OMB. kinda.

[godofwar7]

Bad news about the OMB Mahaomon combo. I tried to do it the optimal way, and the few times that I managed to get the Garu parts down, the opponent keeps teching out after 5B, before 5C can hit.

Maybe, I'm not doing 5C quickly enough, or maybe 5A ~ 5B is messing it up, I dunno. Its weird, cuz I could of sworn that I saw SB Garu D Garu work in the original vid.

Anyways unless elochai can figure this out, buh bye perfect mahaomon combo.

On a positive note, its easy to reset it after they tech upwards with another 5B, but not sure about other techs

[Elochai]

The timing on the 5B > OMB > sb.Agi is ridiculous as fuck. I can't get the Agi to hit, but Thanatos stays in the air.

edit: Mkay, got it to work somewhat consistently, but you're right, they do tech. I'm going to try some other stuff out, I like where this is going.

edit 2: The optimal version of the combo works on FC, however I found that doing Garu elevator puts you too far. Instead, I did x > 5B > 2AB > sb.garu [3] > 2AB > d.garu [2] > 2A > 5B > sb.Agi ender. I'm gonna try some other stuff, since I finally need to contribute something lol.

edit 3 (have I ever done 3 edits?): I was messing around and found this:

2C FC OMB > 2C > 214CD > 236236C > 5B > 2AB > d.garu [2] > 2A > 5B > 2AB > d.garu [2] > 2A > 5B > 5C (2) > 2C > 214B > 236AB > 236236C activation

[AeternumSomnium]

Bad news about the OMB Mahaomon combo. I tried to do it the optimal way, and the few times that I managed to get the Garu parts down, the opponent keeps teching out after 5B, before 5C can hit.

Maybe, I'm not doing 5C quickly enough, or maybe 5A ~ 5B is messing it up, I dunno. Its weird, cuz I could of sworn that I saw SB Garu D Garu work in the original vid.

Anyways unless elochai can figure this out, buh bye perfect mahaomon combo.

On a positive note, its easy to reset it after they tech upwards with another 5B, but not sure about other techs

*Phew*

I thought my timing was just worse than I thought it was--how bittersweet

[Elochai]

Get someone in fear, and mash 5B for your life. Then, it's all gold.

[GBS Giovanni]

Tried just doing 5A>5C?

[Elochai]

If I wasn't so tired from school, I'd go try it. I'll go ahead and try it in an hour or two, anyway.

Btw, does anyone here also play Yukiko? I was thinking of picking her up, and I was curious about how the transition is.

Edit: 5B OMB combo with Garu elevator into 5A > 5C does not work.

[Synthesis]

If I wasn't so tired from school, I'd go try it. I'll go ahead and try it in an hour or two, anyway.

Btw, does anyone here also play Yukiko? I was thinking of picking her up, and I was curious about how the transition is.

Edit: 5B OMB combo with Garu elevator into 5A > 5C does not work.

I play Yukiko! Yukiko's maragi combos are hard but the transition is fine once you get used to her slight differences. They both have the same basic gameplan except Yukiko does less damage but has much better oki. They feel the same, overall.

[AeternumSomnium]

Would you happen to know anything on the Aigis transition Synthesis?

I finally want to take the time to learn her (with my next couple days off) but her playstyle looks so odd--and feels odd too

I fear I may be in over my head lol

[godofwar7]

Aigis = orgia mode management.

zone when you're building orgia. use Athena shield and 2B.

with orgia on, rush in and go to mixup city, and after a successful confirm go into maragi combos.

I myself want to learn a sub as well. but it took extraordinary effort just to learn liz, and I'm not even that good with her(I still don't do garu combos and ghastly wail enders!).

Getting my liz to a more acceptable level would be better than finding a sub that isn't even half as good as my liz, because i know i suck with every other character.

[Runyst]

I'm still learning Elizabeth but I'm thinking of picking up Shadow Labrys for my sub. I was initially thinking of kanji for my sub but the combo list for him seemed pretty crazy where as with s. lab it's more about persona management.

Not to mention the gameplay oh god, feels sorta like liz but with pressure once you get in there. Forcing people to react to your persona while you mix them up feels pretty damn good. Not as good as Liz's lol confirms into 4k damage combos but close.

I really need to learn those garu loops, 2B hits so often and is just so good but I can't connect anything with it yet. THOSE GARU LOOPS

[AeternumSomnium]

Aigis = orgia mode management.

zone when you're building orgia. use Athena shield and 2B.

with orgia on, rush in and go to mixup city, and after a successful confirm go into maragi combos.

No seriously I spent like 7 hours today in training mode just getting the basic and advanced midscreen and corner normal as well as orgia combos down and dear God the frustration ):<

Looking back with Liz it feels like I have a million years to input stuff; with Aigis all the inputs are unholy quick (mainly with Orgia transition and Megido continuation) Thankfully the mixup game isn't too hard to get--I mean seriously, that jB

Anyways yeah that's kind of how I felt, I mean my Liz is game is decent but not as good as it oughta be--but after getting floored by GBS, Kobe, and Drake so many times I just thought maybe it's time to get my Aigis on lol

A brief reprieve gentlemen

[Elochai]

Over the last few days, a bunch of us have been finding new tech with Mahamon, combo wise. However, we've still yet to find a "practical" (only putting that in quotes because it can be argued that our new combos aren't exactly practical) use for Mamudoon. It kinda struck me when I was doing challenge 30 that this super is really bad. Seeing as you can get hit out of Mamudoon but not Mahamon is really a tribute to how bad Mamudoon is. It is on the level of "so bad, it shouldn't be in the game". It's too slow to be used in combos as far as I know; there's just no use for it.

[godofwar7]

If a full agidyne is not long enough for Liz to recover from Mamudoon animation, then there is nothing in the game that is long enough.

Mamudoon is easier to combo an opponent into, but that's completely pointless when the only way to possibly use it is if the other guy chooses not to attack you. Or like in my match against shadowteddie, completely whiffs an attack during its invincibility frames and then backs away out of confusion.

The only way to redeem this waste of a super is if it was possible to Rapid Cancel, or Super Cancel it.

[Elochai]

So I was thinking with all the new shit out there, I would make an "updated" combo tutorial/video, but I'd only be showing all the new stuff. With that being said, I'd also like to do some updates to the combo thread (though that's something that only Kiba can do), so I'll most likely end up posting the new stuff on that thread. Anyway, making an updated video: good/bad idea?

Shameless plug of my original tutorial.

[Runyst]

make a new one gogogo

original one is pretty good

our combos do so much damage but it's so hard to sneak the confirm in ;_;

[Kiba]

If you wanna make an updated tutorial video you're more than welcome.

our combos do so much damage but it's so hard to sneak the confirm in ;_;

This is particular why I'm a little hesistant on adding Certain combos. I focus on adding BnB type combos (as anything extremely hard is sorta impractical and not worth it). For example, the mahamaon combo that you guys were talking about earlier seems hella hard and very timing specific. It would be nice to fill in the special starter corner combos. I can't believe I forgot the corner combo from Maragidyne...

[Elochai]

While I was admittedly going for more advanced combos (like the Mahamon ones, some of which border on near impracticality, but starters like 5B and 2C do see a lot of use), some of the new combos that I've found are just variations on old ones, with similar damage, or added flashiness. For example, the old corner BnB with 2C used 75 meter, but I've been able to get very similar damage (differences are in the 10's iirc) by only using 50 meter, which may be useful since having heat cooldown before you use Mind Charge can be a pain.

Anyhow, I understand fully that the combo thread is for simple BnBs. Maybe there should be an "advanced" combo section or something? I recall the Ragna forum having a separate thread for Blood Kain combos, so maybe we should do something similar? I mean, a lot of these "advanced" combos are just 2B > j.B loops off of different starters, or things using OMB.

[Runyst]

I think it would be great to have a section on how to use one more burst or one more cancel to secure a kill much like how the AOA>OMC>Memento Mori ender does

[Kiba]

Maybe there should be an "advanced" combo section or something? I recall the Ragna forum having a separate thread for Blood Kain combos, so maybe we should do something similar? I mean, a lot of these "advanced" combos are just 2B > j.B loops off of different starters, or things using OMB.

That would completely depend on how much advanced combos can be made. If they're all just 2B > j.B loops from different starters, there isn't much point since it's essentially the same combo, and if there isn't a lot of combos overall, I may as well mix them in the current format and make it known that it is an advanced combo.

[Elochai]

Yeah, I suppose you're right. They're all just X, Y, or Z > 2B > j.B > garu x N.

[Elochai]

So, the maximum amount of 2B > j.B > j.236D loops you can do per combo are four. I tested this combo route using every starter than has a P1 of 0 (236D, 236C, and 2C), and I used an OMB as the second hit of the combo. However, in all of these combos, you can add 2AB > 236D [9~3] after the fourth j.236D.

Maximum combo damage I've found was 10015 off of j.236D FC > OMB > (2B > j.B > j.236D [2]) x4 > 2AB > 236D [9~3] > 2A > 5B > 5C > 2C > 214B > AOA > Memento Mori. The best thing about this combo route is the absolutely RIDICULOUS amount of corner carry. You literally go from the starting position on the screen to the corner. You can be a bit further if you'd like to dash up for the AOA at the end of the combo.

[Synthesis]

So, the maximum amount of 2B > j.B > j.236D loops you can do per combo are four. I tested this combo route using every starter than has a P1 of 0 (236D, 236C, and 2C), and I used an OMB as the second hit of the combo. However, in all of these combos, you can add 2AB > 236D [9~3] after the fourth j.236D.

Maximum combo damage I've found was 10015 off of j.236D FC > OMB > (2B > j.B > j.236D [2]) x4 > 2AB > 236D [9~3] > 2A > 5B > 5C > 2C > 214B > AOA > Memento Mori. The best thing about this combo route is the absolutely RIDICULOUS amount of corner carry. You literally go from the starting position on the screen to the corner. You can be a bit further if you'd like to dash up for the AOA at the end of the combo.

for even more corner carry, you can hold [3] or go [6~2] during D.Garu