[P4A] Elizabeth Gameplay Discussion

[Kiba]

That's a great combo you have there. That's quite practical too.

[Elochai]

People like to DP when they're feared, I suppose. I'm gonna try and see how I can use garu to punish certain DPs, then I'll be in the realm of ultra practicality.

[Synthesis]

People like to DP when they're feared, I suppose. I'm gonna try and see how I can use garu to punish certain DPs, then I'll be in the realm of ultra practicality.

It beats Labrys and Akihiko out right from my experience.

[Elochai]

Garudyne does? It seems like Akihiko's BD pushes you really far away, so the most I've been able to do was a few hits of 5B, or a 5A (dat hitbox). Labrys, I don't think I've ever punished her DP. At all. I've played a decent amount of Labrys matches, too.

[godofwar7]

In the akihiko vs liz team exhibition, both me and giovanni got red axe bull rush supered to death from trying to punish tectal's DP with 5B.

Don't think a garudyne would have won out in that situation.

[Tecta1Eastside]

try IB her dp then hit 5a.

I can see 5b coming if you hit it and i'll mash labrys super hard the moment i see 5b come out.

[godofwar7]

Hmm I'm not too good with instant blocking, i'm not even good at normal blocking...

I'd much rather just do 5C. could you punish that just as easily as 5B?

otherwise I think I'll learn to start jumping over people. seems it would be a massive improvement over what I do now.

[Elochai]

5C isn't a very good punish tool imo (unless it's Yukiko's Dia). I think as long as Labrys has hit you, she's going to cancel into Sword Art: Beast, and destroy your shit. If anything, (theory) you can throw the 5B and OMC it, and then block. Punish the super afterwards.

Just for the sake of reference, I hit 5C against Ciddypoo, and I ate an instant kill. Nightmares ever since.

[Tecta1Eastside]

evade step might be better

i would have to go test it in the morning and let you know to be sure.

I only hit dp when i'm desperate and only use her super outside of combos when im desperate.

u might be able to jump over it but her the hitbox is retarded and im just not sure.

Liz make me nervous in corner since you really cant burst often in the corner vs liz

[GBS Giovanni]

Just 5a bait it. I usually do that but I was brain dead that entire set. Mind set switching over to Slab and I was playing hella bad that set

[Elochai]

Liz is only unburstable if she's spaced herself properly (which some people don't know how to do). Never burst 2B or 214AB. You can get out of jail free if you burst Zio, since Liz is still in the animation, and Thanatos will go away (if you're close enough, of course).

Full screen Liz combos should always be bursted though; Liz can never get enough of your salty pringles .

edit: meant to say never burst 2C. Actually, burst it and get salty.

[GBS Giovanni]

Don't burst 2B either, I use it as burst bait lol.

[UmaiCakes]

Or 5B...or 5A

Best place to burst is during any of her specials (Zio and Bufu mostly), she won't recover fast enough to punish burst even if only Thanatos gets hit

Or burst Garu, obviously

[Elochai]

I'm going to a tournament Saturday, and I've decided that having some "new" tech is something I should consider. With that being said, how do you set up an instant j.A? The only way I know is 2B OMC > falling j.A, but the timing can be a tad tricky, and sometimes I get 5A, or nothing at all.

I've gotten into doing 5AA > (AC) j.C for a simple ambiguous cross up (shoutouts to stealing tech). Is there any way to combo off of CH j.C or regular j.C? I've only been able to combo off of FC, albeit 7K damage.

Lastly, anything else to do after 214CD besides 5A > x.bufu? Seems like everyone knows not to tech.

[GBS Giovanni]

Garu>OMC>j.A/2A for instant high/low mix up

[UmaiCakes]

Lastly, anything else to do after 214CD besides 5A > x.bufu? Seems like everyone knows not to tech.

2B => j.D

doesn't catch all techs midscreen tho, just like 5C j.D won't

I've gotten into doing 5AA > (AC) j.C for a simple ambiguous cross up (shoutouts to stealing tech). Is there any way to combo off of CH j.C or regular j.C? I've only been able to combo off of FC, albeit 7K damage.

By (AC) do you mean IAD air turn? Or just IAD? When Damosu does it, it looks like just IAD

Edit: Ok, so I tried it out...what Damosu does is just IAD j.C => Garu. The j.C does not crossup...then the Garu also does not crossup but it looks like it should because you switch sides momentarily after the j.C. (Kinda like Jin's IAD EX Hishouken)

To get j.C to crossup you have to airturn IAD

[Elochai]

Yeah, I was referring to an air turn with AC. It's a yomi thing, I guess. I never knew the air turn was needed, but thanks.

Will I be seeing you at Next Level on Saturday, Umai?

edit: just saw your post in the thread.

[DudeUnderscore]

so I fought bananaken's slabrys on PSN. This has made me realize one thing : I NEED TO LEARN MORE LIZ MIXUPS. I realized that he can just sit there crouch blocking and react to all my thanatos shenanagins. He could reversal out of all them :U.

Anyways tl;dr do you guys have any advice for liz blockstrings or pressuring? Ive heard about the 2B -> OMC -> j.A, but that requires extremely precise timing.

[DudeUnderscore]

On an additional note, i think liz's 5A is an underestimated pressure tool.

[Elochai]

Sadly, you've realized the ultimate reason as to why Elizabeth is a VERY lacking character. Her only overheads are j.A, and 5AB. J.A is surely fast, but as mentioned, to even get into j.A, it's pretty tricky. At that, FC j.A without Memento Mori is only netting you like, 4k~.

It's kinda sad that the opposing player can hold [3] the entire time on defense, while just jumping over 5D. There're a few tactics that are harder to react to, like 2B OMC grab (almost like a tick grab), or whiff 2A grab. 5C OMC is practically useless in that it's 50 meter for the same pressure route (5C into 2C or 5D) with the added option of another 5C.

If I recall correctly, s.Lab/Lab can BD on reaction to 5C, beating you cleanly and freely every time. It's pretty stupid. Not to mention her 2B is similar to Liz's, in terms of it being a huge square hitbox lol.

5A is pretty good, I would agree. I love it's hitbox.

[spineshark]

The only use I've found for 5C OMC 5C is to teach my friend to stop mashing Yu 2A out of 5C -> 5C. Against people who know what to wait for it's only good if you really need to pull Thanatos back, I think. Once you get in the corner things aren't so bad for Liz, because instead of people hitting Thanatos and getting away for free you can actually try to react to what they do and punish them for trying to get out. But only if you have enough cards to be able to handle people tapping him a couple of times. Of course, even in the corner she's no Chie or Yu.

I actually like that she doesn't have all the canned mixups that most of the good characters do, but it's frustrating being mostly limited to playing for unforced errors at midrange (i.e. catching people who are approaching with 5C/2B/etc. because they pressed a button or jumped at the wrong situation) and trying to land risky throw attempts. Not to mention that other characters can mash out all kinds of garbage all the time and catch you if you're not super careful.

I'm still not really sure I like this game enough to want to spend all this time learning another character, but if I were going to, it would definitely be Teddie. I had considered him as a possibility a couple months ago and only came to like him more after watching Souji all weekend at NEC. He's definitely the closest to a "good" version of Liz in my opinion: insane style/troll power, strong midrange with good runaway/zoning, super scary corner game, frametrap/throw bait based rather than mixup-oriented, cheap status ailment tricks, etc. If this game gets announced for Evo, and I think it will, maybe I'll reconsider, especially since I have spent some time learning his really tricky stuff and it's more the basics that I suck at right now. I'm a little too busy with other things to practice Persona much at the moment though =/

[Elochai]

Yeah, playing Liz is quite frustrating some times. Today was a good example for me.

(I'm gonna off topic kinda hard here) So I entered TSB again (the last one was in Oct), and I ended up getting 3rd again. I've noticed that against experienced players, you may as well just punch a wall or something. Playing against people who know Liz somewhat decently is so meh. They just block everything lol, and the only times I ever got in were off of some random thing they messed up on, kinda like how you mentioned, Spineshark. I suppose Jourdal will upload the videos sometime, so you guys can see me get bodied .

[spineshark]

I caught the end of teams on the stream. Were you the Liz player on team XBL?

[Elochai]

Yes, I was. TVs have too little input delay.

[UmaiCakes]

You didn't come to taisho with us