[P4A] Elizabeth Combo Thread (Updated 5/19/13)

[Elochai]

Two Shuffle Time combos by BKDennis.

May or may not be optimal (depends if you're going for the kill or not I guess), but it's something interesting. I honestly never thought that 2A > 5C was possible.

5A Touch of Death by Elochai

[Orrax]

I'm a little late on this, but I find raw 2AB tends to catch people because people like to jump against Liz (probably to avoid her throw game or get out of pressure), not because they're blocking high.

[TheWhiteVoid]

Hello, I just started playing this game and Elizabeth is one of the characters I'm trying to learn so I thought I would see if I could get recommendations for a couple of good bnb combos to start with, maybe a couple that have a good balance between damage and ease of execution. Should I just stick with learning the ones in the wiki for now?

I was also wondering how useful are Elizabeth's combos with OMB, is it really worth sacrificing your burst for some extra damage? It seems like they would only be worth attempting in the final round if the opponent has no burst themselves.

[Elochai]

Elizabeth gets a lot of good damage off of almost anything in my opinion. Her more difficult combos are usually those which involve D Garu; that is practically due to the fact that some characters have odd timings (looking at Teddie/Chie here) that may take a while to learn.

In other words, you could learn combos that are stuff > 236CD > stuff > 214B x2 or 214CD ender. If I'm allowed to plug my own work, I have a beginner's combo tutorial with combos that aren't very hard, and do decent damage.

In regards to the OMB, I think it should only be used if you're going to kill the opponent. I feel as if Elizabeth is character that really needs the burst more than others due to poor defense (sans 2B) and low health. The great thing about using an OMB for kills is that OMB combo routes usually go into 236236C; winning the game for you if you don't drop the combo.

[godofwar7]

The one i use most is hitconfirm into 5B 2AB 236CD[2] 5B 5C 2C 214B 214CD 5C(or j.C) [50SP] for like 4k damage

real easy stuff, getting the hitconfirm is the hard part

for the corner anything into 5C 2C 214B 236236A 5AB OMC 214214C

a lot of ways to get there

liz OMB combos are ToD combos. you can deal a characters max health in damage if you got them in the corner, or you can go the mahaomon route. theyre not easy though. if you think you won't drop it, you should go for it since liz only gets so many hitconfirms in a match. i think most liz players don't think its worth the difficulty of execution though, especially since her standard combos already do alot of damage

[TD]

I'm a little late on this, but I find raw 2AB tends to catch people because people like to jump against Liz (probably to avoid her throw game or get out of pressure), not because they're blocking high.

nope, you are completely correct. command grab/delay sweep is actually a decent mixup

[Eshi]

Liz's OMB combos are very useful when she doesn't have meter to hit confirm into 236CD on standing opponents. However, using OMB when it won't kill is generally bad since Liz has a hard time mixing people up to deal that last bit of damage. OMB combos are very easy on Akihiko/Labryses/Naoto/Liz/Yosuke. Just sweep as they're coming down into easymode 236D loops.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't OMB disable Liz's passive meter gain?

EDIT: Also, I wanna spend some time updating this thread with 2B > jB > 236D loops because they're universal and much much more stable than regular Magarudyne loops. Can anyone point me to a combo video or something that demonstrates what they look like so I can add it to the first post? Maybe I should restructure the combo list to point out easy Garu loops vs. harder character specific ones? I barely even try them anymore because it's so unstable. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[Omex]

Liz's OMB combos are very useful when she doesn't have meter to hit confirm into 236CD on standing opponents. However, using OMB when it won't kill is generally bad since Liz has a hard time mixing people up to deal that last bit of damage. OMB combos are very easy on Akihiko/Labryses/Naoto/Liz/Yosuke. Just sweep as they're coming down into easymode 236D loops.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't OMB disable Liz's passive meter gain?

EDIT: Also, I wanna spend some time updating this thread with 2B > jB > 236D loops because they're universal and much much more stable than regular Magarudyne loops. Can anyone point me to a combo video or something that demonstrates what they look like so I can add it to the first post?

yeah, OMB disables liz's passive meter gain and other character's general meter gain, so you need to either have as much meter as you need to finish before you OMB or you need to have 50 meter to burn on mind charge to get the extra you need. afaik the extra difficulty in confirming is why we don't see it too much from okusan/etc

[susano]

Forgive me for the clueless question but what's OMB again? I know about OMC though...

[skd]

Forgive me for the clueless question but what's OMB again? I know about OMC though...

One More Burst

[susano]

One More Burst

Gracias.

[Elochai]

Liz's OMB combos are very useful when she doesn't have meter to hit confirm into 236CD on standing opponents. However, using OMB when it won't kill is generally bad since Liz has a hard time mixing people up to deal that last bit of damage. OMB combos are very easy on Akihiko/Labryses/Naoto/Liz/Yosuke. Just sweep as they're coming down into easymode 236D loops.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't OMB disable Liz's passive meter gain?

EDIT: Also, I wanna spend some time updating this thread with 2B > jB > 236D loops because they're universal and much much more stable than regular Magarudyne loops. Can anyone point me to a combo video or something that demonstrates what they look like so I can add it to the first post? Maybe I should restructure the combo list to point out easy Garu loops vs. harder character specific ones? I barely even try them anymore because it's so unstable. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Take your pic, Eshi:

I have a video with 2B > j.B > 236D.

Okusan has one.

The video by Bace & I have some, too.

I believe Kiba added some of these combos to the thread in like December or so, but that's when the tech was new, so some of them are outdated/unoptimal for their starter. My video is old, and some of those combos have better variations that I figured out. Btw, the loop is only possible on FC (unless I'm mistaken).

yeah, OMB disables liz's passive meter gain and other character's general meter gain, so you need to either have as much meter as you need to finish before you OMB or you need to have 50 meter to burn on mind charge to get the extra you need. afaik the extra difficulty in confirming is why we don't see it too much from okusan/etc

Yep, pretty much this. Funny thing is that some of the combos have really weird specifics, like only X amount of flames from Maragidyne have to hit, or weird spacings. As long as you have 75 meter & a decent amount of HP for mind charge, the OMB shouldn't be an issue I would think.

[TheWhiteVoid]

The one i use most is hitconfirm into 5B 2AB 236CD[2] 5B 5C 2C 214B 214CD 5C(or j.C) [50SP] for like 4k damage

real easy stuff, getting the hitconfirm is the hard part

for the corner anything into 5C 2C 214B 236236A 5AB OMC 214214C

a lot of ways to get there

liz OMB combos are ToD combos. you can deal a characters max health in damage if you got them in the corner, or you can go the mahaomon route. theyre not easy though. if you think you won't drop it, you should go for it since liz only gets so many hitconfirms in a match. i think most liz players don't think its worth the difficulty of execution though, especially since her standard combos already do alot of damage

Thanks, anytime 5C is listed for combos you always let both hits connect right? I don't recall seeing any with one hit, but I noticed it's sometimes put down as 5C(2).

The impression I've gotten from playing with her the little bit that I have is, like you said, you really need to make the most of your opportunities for damage as they can be hard to get. Though I'm sure some of that's just me.

Elizabeth gets a lot of good damage off of almost anything in my opinion. Her more difficult combos are usually those which involve D Garu; that is practically due to the fact that some characters have odd timings (looking at Teddie/Chie here) that may take a while to learn.

In other words, you could learn combos that are stuff > 236CD > stuff > 214B x2 or 214CD ender. If I'm allowed to plug my own work, I have a beginner's combo tutorial with combos that aren't very hard, and do decent damage.

Nice tutorial video, would I be correct in assuming that anytime you omitted a directional input for 236D I would just follow the character specific method and when a direction is indicated it's what you need to get the follow up on all characters? I imagine it's going to take me some time to get the D Garu combos down.

[godofwar7]

Generally yes. I think there are a few cases where you go with only 1 hit, but im don't know them.

Liz just has no mixups so you're forced wait for the other guy to mess up.

It'd be a good idea to start practicing using OMC you'll have to rely on it alot at higher level play.

2B OMC j.A or 2A mixup

D.Garu OMC j.A or 2A mixup

5C(2) 2OMC 5C if they like to try to break thanatos

Theres also 5C(1) 2OMC which lets you can go in on them while Thanatos is attacking

5C 236A OMC to wallstick them to the corner

Also good to learn is Airturn backdash. Too many 2Bs in this game that can body liz.

[Elochai]

AFAIK, the only time when you're going to do 5C (1) is when you're doing Thanatos-only combos at max screen distance.

[TD]

5c 3omc for instant dash. Used to get in.

[Putin]

Just got the game a couple of days ago, and I have a few questions.

What's the optimal combo off of a fullscreen B Bufu?

In particular, I've been messing around with resets after a fullscreen 2C > B Bufu combo, which ends into a second B Bufu > j.C; I'm just replacing the j.C with a third Bufu which nets a reset since it comes fast enough to catch air techs.

This is the best one I've been able to come up with:

B Bufu > SB Agi > 5B > 5CC > B Bufu > j.C

for about 3.7k, which seems kinda low for 25sp Liz combos lol and Agi > sweep > Garu route doesn't seem to work since it drops at 5B or something

Also, what's with her 25sp corner combos? The midscreen alternatives off of, let's say, 5B, deal more damage, can score the same knockdown, and seem entirely possible in the corner. The only valid reason I can think of for using those is when you're up against characters that make Garu combos difficult, so you'd want to go for the safer choice.

Now, into a couple of stupid and scrubby questions, kinda combo related.

I'm having trouble air dashing after j.C ender consistently, which seems like the best choice despite Liz's lack of non Thanatos pressure.

Any tips on the timing? It's just silly being able to pull off multiple Garu loops on "normal" characters but not taking advantage of knockdown.

Lastly, suggested followups after 2AA > jc? I get hit even if I j.A instantly, I guess it's its shitty hitbox and it doesn't reach them up high. Also, it's not possible to get damage off of it unless it's fatal, right? Even on CH into 5B it only seems to get only a small combo.

Thanks in advance.

[Elochai]

Off of 214B FC full screen, I believe you can go into (214B FC >) 214CD > 2B > j.B > j.236D > 2AB > 236D > 2A > 5B > 5C > 214A > j.C. Non fc, you're kinda limited with combo options, but I'm sure you can just do 214B > 214CD > 5C > 214A > j.C.

By 25SP corner combos, are you referring to 5B > sweep > SB garu? How do you figure that the midscreen versions deal more dmg? You can use the same combo route off of 5B in the corner or midscreen (5B > sweep > SB garu [9] > j.236D [2] > sweep > 236D > etc). Granted I would rather use 2C for a combo starter in the corner if at all possible since it's the best combo starter besides C/D garu. I may have misunderstood this question, though.

If you can't get the airdash post j.C down, you can always opt to do a meaty 5C or 5D. Keeps the pressure on the opponent without you necessarily having to be in their face. I suppose you can just keep trying to get the airdash down.

Not sure what you mean by 2AA > jc, perhaps you should specify? I'm taking it as 2A on air hit?

[godofwar7]

Instead of using SB Agi, you can use SB zio instead to trap them in the corner with paralysis. To combo off of it, you'd have to OMC though, but its worth it just because liz is so much more dangerous at the corner. It's not optimum, but youre sacrificing damage for pressure which liz lacks oh so much.

[Putin]

Off of 214B FC full screen, I believe you can go into (214B FC >) 214CD > 2B > j.B > j.236D > 2AB > 236D > 2A > 5B > 5C > 214A > j.C. Non fc, you're kinda limited with combo options, but I'm sure you can just do 214B > 214CD > 5C > 214A > j.C.

Yeah I meant no FC B Bufu, but I didn't consider the fact that the combo prior to the reset includes 2C which means FC lol. I guess the combo I mentioned is the best choice if you somehow manage to land it without Fear.

By 25SP corner combos, are you referring to 5B > sweep > SB garu? How do you figure that the midscreen versions deal more dmg? You can use the same combo route off of 5B in the corner or midscreen (5B > sweep > SB garu [9] > j.236D [2] > sweep > 236D > etc). Granted I would rather use 2C for a combo starter in the corner if at all possible since it's the best combo starter besides C/D garu. I may have misunderstood this question, though.

I was referring to the combos included in the op. I'm wondering why they're there, exactly because I know the midscreen combos work in the corner as well and do more damage. I guess they're just there for alternatives, or for the times you want to add a SB Zio and still end your combo with j.C.

Not sure what you mean by 2AA > jc, perhaps you should specify? I'm taking it as 2A on air hit?

My fault for asking this here since it's the combo thread; I was talking about a blocked 2AA into a jump cancel for possible mixups and stuff, but it looks like it's really easy to disrespect, or I'm doing something really wrong.

Instead of using SB Agi, you can use SB zio instead to trap them in the corner with paralysis. To combo off of it, you'd have to OMC though, but its worth it just because liz is so much more dangerous at the corner. It's not optimum, but youre sacrificing damage for pressure which liz lacks oh so much.

Yeah that's a good idea, even though doing the full combo will probably kill if the reset's after a 2C combo

[Beening]

I am not sure how helpful this is but one of the combos gave me a hard time until I did a fatal counter. It was:

•5C(2) CH > 2C (Thanatos close to opponent) > 214B > 214CD > 5C(2) > 2C > 236AB [4050 DM] [50 SP]

It said counter hit but when I tried it on Mitsuru in training mode it would only connect after a fatal counter, never a normal counter. Is this just character specific or a mistake?

[Elochai]

IIRC, on regular CH, the last 2C > 236AB doesn't connect. Only connecting on fatal sounds right.

[Eshi]

I'm beginning to add updates to this thread, some of it formatting so it's more legible, some of it more optimal BNB's provided courtesy of Bace. Some of them are pretty sick. Stay tuned!

[Elochai]

For a whole year, I've been using 2B > j.C > 236CD > xx as my go-to AA combo. Why did no one ever tell me about 2B > j.B > 2AB > xx ?

[Putin]

Because it's height specific IIRC? I did try going for j.B instead of j.C since it's safer if you don't hitconfirm it properly, but it wouldn't always connect because the opponent was too high up.

If there's something I'm missing do share it, since I'm losing persona cards every now and then due to poor hitconfirming