[P4A] Yosuke Q&A/FAQ thread

[BROSUKE]

how do you combo off his counter i know u can but i have never been able to is there a specific spot u have to get hit on

[OutlawVinegar]

how do you combo off his counter i know u can but i have never been able to is there a specific spot u have to get hit on

Replying with a quote from Chaz, on page 1.

It's a specific scenario where the trip of the R-action hits meaty on the opponent. This can occur when an opponent uses a jumping attack which shrinks their hurtbox, causing the counter to activate but the trip to hit them later, meaning that it is possible to OTG them with 2a as Yosuke begins recovering earlier.

[Primiera]

Howdy, I'm a newbie Chie player.

How can Chie, or anyone without a great vertical Furious Action, stop those air flip mix-ups? 2B rarely works and can be dodged, Furious Action universally misses or whiffs, and blocking is do-able but tough (from my limited experience). Where's the flaw here? Is this a legit mix-up (IE not on knockdown, on standing) or is this punishable?

[Fluck]

Jump and air throw.

[Milln]

Howdy, I'm a newbie Chie player. How can Chie, or anyone without a great vertical Furious Action, stop those air flip mix-ups? 2B rarely works and can be dodged, Furious Action universally misses or whiffs, and blocking is do-able but tough (from my limited experience). Where's the flaw here? Is this a legit mix-up (IE not on knockdown, on standing) or is this punishable?

Jump and air throw.

You can also 9j.B as Chie.

[falcon21002]

During fatal counters when an the opponent is already airborne, why is it that sometimes 236B ends up kicking them higher than usual causing j.2C to miss?

[Reioumu]

During fatal counters when an the opponent is already airborne, why is it that sometimes 236B ends up kicking them higher than usual causing j.2C to miss?

When you use 236B you need to hit them when they're pretty highish up while they're falling. If you hit them when they're at a low altitude, your kick is stronger and will pop them up higher.

[Ohno]

I think quick escape (A+C) is also viable for escaping the Moonsault crossups.

Does anyone know why, during Sukukaja, some players end their air combos with a back dash? Sometimes they throw out j.D but other times they don't do anything and I can't see why this would be a better idea than just ending normally with a kunai throw (236C/D)?

[Chazmobile]

Does anyone know why, during Sukukaja, some players end their air combos with a back dash? Sometimes they throw out j.D but other times they don't do anything and I can't see why this would be a better idea than just ending normally with a kunai throw (236C/D)?

Though I myself haven't practiced much Sukukaja as I don't actually have the game (loleurope), I assume this is done due to the fact that the combo may be so highly prorated that the opponent will tech out super early after the Kunai hit, resulting in very little damage and worse frame advantage after they tech.

The airdash resets the situation to neutral where Yosuke excels, and he will also be able to J.D at a lower point during the fall to better dictate the opponent's options after they air tech.

[Sol.Badguy]

Mmm can someone tell me what is so great about J.C? I don't seem to get the same results as everyone else. I'm using it as a jump-in and cross-up but it seems slow and easily anti-aired to me. Plus like it's been said, it doesn't hit high. I certainly don't spam it; if anything I don't use it enough. I just get much better results with J.B so I practically forget J.C exists.

[Milln]

Mmm can someone tell me what is so great about J.C? I don't seem to get the same results as everyone else. I'm using it as a jump-in and cross-up but it seems slow and easily anti-aired to me. Plus like it's been said, it doesn't hit high. I certainly don't spam it; if anything I don't use it enough. I just get much better results with J.B so I practically forget J.C exists.

I'm with him. I don't really have a whole lot of success with j.C and really only use it in a situation where I don't think my opponent will anti-air me and when I want to cancel it on block with one of his aerial specials. It has a lot of startup, potential for a card to get taken away, and gets 2B'd just the same.

[BatousaiJ]

It's all situational of course but there are many cases where the ridiculous active frames and extended hit box really comes in handy. Not to mention the increased damage off it as a starter and free combo every time you land a CH on the air with it.

You just have to know when and how to use it and you'll see that it's actually quite useful. I think people just assume it to be the be all, end all air move for Yosuke but that's just not the case since his j.A and j.B are also quite excellent in their own right as well.

[Sol.Badguy]

What combos are good to do off of a J.C hit? I just can't really think of a single situation where I'd rather use J.C instead of J.A or J.B, and stuff like "You just have to know when and how to use it" is basically just stating my question.

[Fluck]

You can do normal jump-in stuff like dash 5A 5C 2C 236B etc. or settle for a weaker combo depending on the spacing and timing of your hit.

You can do j.C while rising or while you're at ridiculous super jump heights, that's the main benefit.

[Milln]

Here's a question:

Where'd the poison information thread go and why isn't it on the wiki?

I mean, I remember that it does 4.8% over the course of duration, but I wanted to look it over.

[Chazmobile]

Here's a question:

Where'd the poison information thread go and why isn't it on the wiki?

I mean, I remember that it does 4.8% over the course of duration, but I wanted to look it over.

The other mods decided that it did not warrant its own thread and so I moved the posts here and added in the damage percentage to the FAQ. If you want to look at the full post it is on page 3.

[Milln]

Ah, great, that saves me some time from checking awakening poison damage myself later. Thanks!

[Guymam]

Mmm can someone tell me what is so great about J.C? I don't seem to get the same results as everyone else. I'm using it as a jump-in and cross-up but it seems slow and easily anti-aired to me. Plus like it's been said, it doesn't hit high. I certainly don't spam it; if anything I don't use it enough. I just get much better results with J.B so I practically forget J.C exists.

I'm just going to answer a bunch of questions, and I ain't quoting shit other than this one, because fuck all of you I'mma make Chaz do it.

In all honestly, you do just have to know when and how to use a normal. J.C has its advantages, such as a hella active hurtbox, a long counterhit untech time, and it's a pretty good starter. J.B is pretty fast and hits high. It's up to you to learn the difference and the importance of using which normal when. If you use the same normal all the time you're going to get predictable.

Ex Moonsault has much less land recovery, can be cancelled out of on whiff in the air (normally if you moonsault and you whiff crescent slash, you can't moonsault again), and it has a bit of projectile invincibility. It also readjusts your falling trajectory, making it useful for baiting certain anti-airs and causing them to whiff and get CH'd.

Doing j.2B after a sukukaja moonslash combo gets you away from them if you don't plan on using garudyne, putting you back at neutral which Yosuke is strong at, especially in sukukaja. You can also go for airgrab resets, throw out j.D lower to the ground, or just use it to put distance between you and your opponent.

Adjusting your moonslash combos with a j.236B can let you end with j.236C, which has less landing recovery than the D version. It's generally better to hit with j.236C so you can recover and move faster afterwords faster.

Doing A tackle is the standard ground combo path outside of a crouching confirm can let you either finish your combo with j.236C, try to moonsault reset, wait and then throw SP kunai to get back and in go for a reset safely, use j.2C or j.2CD to try and catch them off guard, or just straight up and land and then try to pressure again. Mix it up between these options and you become scarier when you hit them, because you're opponent won't really know what it is you want to do to them.

Crouching hitconfirms are important. If you don't do them, you're losing out on good damage, which is something this character doesn't normally do. Yes, you should pay attention when you fight, and not hit buttons like a crazy dumbfuck. Might as well play beat-em-ups if you just want to hit the other person without thinking too hard.

Basically, if you hit with B tackle, or more likely, SP Tackle when they're higher off the ground, they don't ground bounce and as such don't recover in the air. It's how 2C fatal combos work.

And lastly, while SP tackle does indeed have projectile invincibility, using it like a dumb fuck can get you killed, especially in the matchups you'd think would break the matchup in your favor. SP tackle on Naoto can get you killed if she is standing on a trap, and on Yukiko it can get you FC because it's not strike invincible. I guess what I'm saying is use it smartly because it's not a 25 meter get in for damn near free card like most people assume (and use like) it is.

[OutlawVinegar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9BRdfPcdEc&feature=plcp

During the first 50 or so minutes of this GameAcho video set, the Yosuke player (vs Yukiko) typically did xx 5C 2C 236A... and then nothing. He definitely knows how to do the followups for more damage, but he usually would land and start pressure again. Can anyone explain why? Is it a matchup specific thing, since Yukiko's normals are much slower?

For that matter, how do different Yosuke players continue pressure off of some of these setups? I thought Moonsaults and dash spring had poor landing recovery, but sometimes I see Yosukes doing these into tick throw setups? Am I just mistaken, or is there some trick that I'm missing for reducing landing recovery?

[Milln]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9BRdfPcdEc&feature=plcp

During the first 50 or so minutes of this GameAcho video set, the Yosuke player (vs Yukiko) typically did xx 5C 2C 236A... and then nothing. He definitely knows how to do the followups for more damage, but he usually would land and start pressure again. Can anyone explain why? Is it a matchup specific thing, since Yukiko's normals are much slower?

I can answer that. It may be a matchup thing, but it's just a pressure thing that this particular Yosuke wants. He prefers to be in Yukiko's face at all times to prevent her from establishing any kind of her zoning shenanigans and not doing the Kunai or anything else ensures that she won't tech high in the air where she has a chance to get away. Also after some raw B and EX Dash Spring hits he'll stop after the second moonsault and wait for the instatech. The Yukiko fall for it nearly every time and he capitalizes with a 2B combo.

For that matter, how do different Yosuke players continue pressure off of some of these setups? I thought Moonsaults and dash spring had poor landing recovery, but sometimes I see Yosukes doing these into tick throw setups? Am I just mistaken, or is there some trick that I'm missing for reducing landing recovery?

It just depends on the Yosuke player, what they like to do, and how they want to approach the opposing player and their character. Dash spring and Moonsault both have recovery on their landing on block, but not enough to where the opponent, if they're expecting another air action and waiting, can't punish Yosuke for it. It won't often work on opponents that pay attention and know Yosuke. On hit, we're pretty okay to continue pressure or go for a throw or something else.

[Fluck]

236A is around -1 on hit, Yukiko cannot outspeed Yosuke's 5F jab (6F with disadvantage) with any of her normals so it's a safe point to reset pressure.

[Ohno]

Are there any other practical applications for B Moonsault besides:

1. Better positioning for FC j.2Cs

2. Getting higher in a regular combo that uses 2 Moonsaults so you can end with j.236C instead of j.236D?

Seems the B version only has significant advantages over the A version inside of combos since using it outside of a combo does one or more of the following...:

1. You're usually too high to do the Crescent Slash followup as a combo starter.

2. Doesn't move as horizontally as the A version so not as good for crossups.

3. Keeps you in the air longer than the A version (?) so it just gives the opponent more time to react to you.

Thinking about it, being too high might make you pretty safe from AA so maybe you can bait into j.2C or something, but I've never really seen it used like that so idk..

[heavymetalmixer]

Are there any other practical applications for B Moonsault besides:

1. Better positioning for FC j.2Cs

2. Getting higher in a regular combo that uses 2 Moonsaults so you can end with j.236C instead of j.236D?

Seems the B version only has significant advantages over the A version inside of combos since using it outside of a combo does one or more of the following...:

1. You're usually too high to do the Crescent Slash followup as a combo starter.

2. Doesn't move as horizontally as the A version so not as good for crossups.

3. Keeps you in the air longer than the A version (?) so it just gives the opponent more time to react to you.

Thinking about it, being too high might make you pretty safe from AA so maybe you can bait into j.2C or something, but I've never really seen it used like that so idk..

After a blocked Dash Spring, you can use a B backwards Moonsault, and a D Kunai to get a kinda safe landing.

[evilben]

After a blocked Dash Spring, you can use a B backwards Moonsault, and a D Kunai to get a kinda safe landing.

unless they run past it/evasive through it etc, then your boned.

(the best thing ive found to do after a blocked dash spring is moonsault > 2C/D > react to what the opponent is doing)

when i use b moonsault outside of combo (which isnt very often) it is mainly to mess with the timing of things so my opponent cannot get to accustomed to things.

[Milln]

If your opponent air throws you after an A Moonsault over them from a blocked Dash Spring(which you shouldn't be doing anyway) or anti-airs you, a B Moonsault over will cause them to whiff. You can C Kunai or do something else fancy.

Also:

Adjusting your moonslash combos with a j.236B can let you end with j.236C, which has less landing recovery than the D version. It's generally better to hit with j.236C so you can recover and move faster afterwords faster.

Doesn't work all the time against the smaller characters such as Teddie. The B-sault-Slash will whiff, so you'll still need to do the A version on Chie, Yukiko, Teddie, Naoto, sometimes Labrys depending on your positioning.

What's everyone's preferred way of going into Sukukaja? When I first started, I only went in off of a Tentarafoo, but now that i'm playing strong opponents I can't rely on that anymore. I usually do it at Neutral or from a blockstring, nowadays.

As an aside, i'mma start looking into some combos that utilize the benefits of Suku mid-combo. I'll definitely post what I come up with.