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[P4A] Kanji Tatsumi Gameplay Discussion "Brofisting is in!"

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Hate Kanji love Tager. Kanji's anti airs are either too slow to be really used as such, even more situational than Tager's, or a DP with high risk and low reward. While some people say the DP is worth all that, I don't agree. Tager's 5A was much better (+ instead of -7, much better hitbox), and he could sometimes press buttons at mid screen unlike Kanji. I also could buffer 360A twice in a block string without getting a super the second time. Couldn't get crossed up neither. I could also jump forward to block projectiles, backdash was relevant in BB too. Tager can combo off of lows pretty well too, which Kanji can't. Kanji's damage in generally is only good with assloads of meter and/or a fatal.

Any advantages Kanji might have at full screen are nullified by so much of the cast having such good zoning tools and mid screen he is laughably bad. Upclose he is still high risk. Aside from the corner carry his super throw is worse than 720 was (shorter range, fewer active frames, slower in a game that is faster on average). In the air Kanji needs to use either really slow moves or his j.A which has a Terrible hitbox (Weird too, it won't normally his crouching characters) or his tackle which is only very situationally legit (and takes meter/burst to combo off of).

Also if I IB something and then tap back early for another IB I don't randomly get a backdash that can't be reversaled with Tager. Tager can combo off of his air throw and anti air throw too. His C moves and his B chair dives are slow enough to be overheads and they aren't, which makes them just reactionable and useless outside major punishes and combos.

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So how is everyone enjoying Kanji life?

I find it more fun than Tager life.

kanji life is pretty awesome. he's the most fun i've had with a grappler in a long time.

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That's probably just me not getting enough Kanji experience, but Tager feels more comfortable to me so far. Kanji might be much more scary up close, but his neutral game feels very clunky. Again, it might be just me not being used to his spacing (I rarely use lightning, for example), but for now, I'd rather play Teddie. Maybe when the game comes to Europe and I get some quality time in the lab, things will change.

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I actually like Kanji's neutral game.

There are so many things I like about him more than Tager.

Kanji has one of the most rewarding 2B's in the game in terms of reward, yields so much damage on CH and half health with tons of meter.

His command grabs are faster than Tager's and has more invul making them more silly when you wanna punish certain character's for trying to DP you, not so much for escaping.

His 214214C isn't so great, I find myself rarely using it and when I do it fails most the time.

His DP is just freaking nuts! Any situation where I feel 2B won't work and I am confident I can get momentum on a jump-in it comes in handy.

Knocking down and giving shock on CH is just diabolical on a grappler, It really makes people push panic buttons in fear of getting hit or locked down.

Kanji has some of the most annoying tools you can give to a grappler:

Pounce for complete and total randomness catching people in so many situations, people have to actually neutral so they don't lose to this move and even then a Kanji in the air near full screen or outside of mid range pose a threat to some players/characters, Gives out so much damage when you burn meter/burst too.

Lightning: Forces movement and is good oki, there are some places you shouldn't do it but there are times when your opponent wants to get away from you and 5D just so happens to hit people trying to run away or at least make them block, then you can do dumb stuff like pounce while they are in the air (depends on how high they are) or just get close. People like Pressing their panic button during those times.

Funny thing if people back tech you can actually pounch them if you are above them when you jump, you can also close the gap by running in.

C+D: Yes your regular grab...he gets dash momentum when he runs and uses it so it catches unsuspecting players who thought they can sit still on Kanji and it's not too horrible on whiff, found myself using it to not only switch sides but to tip people at it's max range and drop 5D on them to keep them blocking. Basic stuffs.

236C: Henaki da gawd! He's right it is good at catching people, it's faster than 2B and it goes way higher, you don't get anything cool without meter or corner though.

236C+D: Another thing you do to either catch forgetful people (whaaa?) and people who jump for no reason.(They think Kanji can't snatch em up with it)

I find myself using it less these days since I can land a hit and burn the 25 meter to kill.

DP: So clutch! This move makes meaty a bad idea on Kanji, it makes people not wanna push buttons, it makes people think he won't do it again when you don't have a reason not to, and lastly you can Awakening super after making people who don't know better who block the DP lose the game anyway.

This move eat's all other DP's except for Naoto, Yosuke, Teddy, Labrys if she holds her DP, Aigis midscreen and put them in their place.

It will even eat supers! You can mash it out point blank on flash and people just get spirit crushed.

I find myself using it until people mentally give up and take the L on so many occasions.

Of course people can bait it and punish me but the idea is if people have to go out their way to bait then you are making them learn.

Those moves are good at making the worst players make him think he is more busted than Tager and give experienced players something they can really complain about.

I am not gonna even talk about how great 5C and 2C is when used right in some match ups.

PS: J.C is my best friend do not talk bad about my J.C.

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What Axis said. Except against Chie.

Forcing Mitsurus to learn how to blockstring Kanji intelligently by using 236C to blow up every blockstring at season's beatings felt pgreat. 100% happy with the character here, I don't let downsides scare me away from a character :V

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http://youtu.be/y4PNoo4cJlI

uploading a tutorial very slowly. should be up in 2 hours. going to sleep in the meanwhile. will annotate in a couple corrections when i do.

goes over fundamental gameplay more than anything. none of this bs crap that new tutorials go over and teach you nothing. unfortunately theres no editing and im a bit rambly and its done completely on the fly after 8 hours of work and with little sleep so its a bit long winded comparitively.

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While I respect and understand that other people like Kanji I have a few bones to pick with Axis's description. 2B is pretty rewarding but it is Slow. Really slow. It is so slow I don't even count it as an anti air. You have to use it as a punish or yomi and commit to swinging at an air dash that hasn't happened yet. 236C is faster than 2B (most things are) but it has a really sharp angle unlike atomic collider which causes it to whiff in situations collider would not have, which also means there are angles we can't anti air from at all unless we commit to a DP (And sometimes not even then). If you take into consideration the difference in throw speeds between games Kanji has 1 grab that is faster 1 approximately same speed and 2 that are slower.

The words "totally random" "Making them learn" "Forgetful people" "Mentally give up" "When used right in some match ups" and you make extensive references to people mashing panic buttons and people teching wrong. Those are pretty much reasons Kanji sucks. If your list is packed full of stuff that relies on the opponent not being good or knowledgeable then how can you seriously tell me he is good. Entertaining maybe, and tell me about Kanji's neutral game because from your description is seems to be press DP if they do anything. I'd forgive Kanji a lot if I could discover more options during neutral.

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I agree with what AXIS said but I also feel that Osuna makes some excellent points. Kanji has a lot of depth, is very rewarding, and is just plain awesome. I mean, seriously, He beats people with a chair. And it's not just any chair, a folding chair. IT'S A CHAIR THAT FOLDS! It's pretty badass to beat someone to a pulp and then just take a seat afterwards. I was so into Extend that I never wanted this game to come out, but after watching some Kanji players, I immediately drove to the store and pre-ordered it. So he's basically the reason I bought this game.

I feel that kanji has a lot of tools and has the ability to turn opponents into his plaything. That being said, I feel that he also kind of sucks in a lot of cases. When you face someone with plenty of experience against kanji, you typically haven't got a chance.

Relying on someone doing the wrong thing is a pretty strong sign that he's not one of the better characters. I am not trying to make him seem bad or anything but when you deal with someone with good matchup experience, it's incredably difficult to gain any ground. That being said, it might actually be a bad thing if they gave him any better tools. I think it's a pretty bad idea to have a high or, god forbid, top tier grapple character in the first installment of a series. Think about it. He's got some amazing potential. Forget the matchups. Forget the tier lists. He get's heavily rewarded for every correct read. If you can get in the opponents head, their as good as dead. Think about how frustrating the game would be if arcsys screwed up and accidentally made Kanji anywhere near as good as Mitsuru. I think developers are at least a little bit worried about this sort of thing. It seems that, in a lot of cases, grapple characters start off on the bottom of the tier lists and slowly move their way up in later games. Tager seems like a good example too.

I know I'm jumping around a lot here. Bottom line is that I love Kanji. We can discuss it and argue about how he should be. The fact is this. He's here, he's awesome, and he's here to stay.

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I started working on that combo video. This is a lot more work than the one I did for Mitsuru because of all the options you have. To save time and prevent myself from going insane, I'll probably only put notations for the "optimal" combo for each starter. And I was thinking of putting all of the other options up on the screen at the same time. So if there were 4 options for a one more cancel combo, I would shrink the videos down so that they would all fit in screen and all pick up at the same point. It might sound stupid but I'm sure it'll turn out well. If it doesn't, then I'll probably just not do it.

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Just something I'd like to share, sorry if it's posted before.

This is a simple OMC gimmick you can do practically anywhere on the ground.

During any confirm > 236A (first hit) (or 5AAAA) > OMC. You can do the second hit technically but it makes it easier to react to because they get stunned much longer. I highly recommend just OMC'ing off the first hit. Anyways...

> ... 214D (times itself for you, more damage, more warning for the opponent)

or

> ...delay 214C (more precise, faster, more surprising).

or

> ...AoA (who the hell expects a Kanji AoA?). This may actually be your most damaging meterless option. Very unexpected, times itself almost perfectly.

and of course

> ...214214C/D (Requires 100SP, obviously)

All your usual mix-up options still apply, such as 5B > any of the above choices. Or doing Gotcha!! to predict a jump. I love doing this twice in a row and baiting a reversal with Kanji's DP as well. If you're feeling really ambitious you can do a quick Evasive Action for a cross-up.

----

This exact same gimmick is really good off Tatsumi Style Ass Whoopin'. Input the OMC just before the final hit. You can even do a weird ass cross-up by OMC'ing right after you jump after the second hit, AD then use Evasive Action in midair to turn around and smack them in back of the head. I'd only recommend that option for desperate last-hitting. I particularly like how Kanji still yells "Blast off!" even after the OMC, which makes it a bit more confusing.

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i know this discussion is kinda old, but Kanji is NOT Tager...Lets keep that very clear cut and dry....He is solid yes, but Persona and it's general system (though similar to BB) just doesn't allow him to be Extend or better yet CP Tager....

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not saying Tager is godlike or anything...lol but he fairs better than Kanji IMO against the rest of the cast

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Completely pointless tidbit I discovered on accident in a match: You can block kanji's DP, punch him, get put into hitstop from the DP, and then nothing happens (because you already blocked the hit). Resulted in a "lolwut" moment.

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not saying Tager is godlike or anything...lol but he fairs better than Kanji IMO against the rest of the cast

Honestly Kanji actually does well against the entire cast.

You just need really sick neutral game to win consistently.

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Kanji has some killer approach options that Tager lacks. Using your movement options and jD/5D/2D in conjuction and let you safely approach into grab range. The ability to gatling Persona specials off of the last hit of the projectile Ds is really scary too.

I would say he does pretty well, his slow pokes are compensated by his amazing DP to dissuade enemy meaties entirely.

Also:

A super throw that can't be DPed at point blank range.

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Honestly Kanji actually does well against the entire cast.

You just need really sick neutral game to win consistently.

Does "well" against the entire cast is kinda stretching it abit i believe, but hey thats just my opinion. I think he CAN at best compete against the rest of the cast, which is why he is viable at least, but do well as lets say a Shabrys.....i don't quite think so. I love Kanji though overall.

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