[P4A] Shadow Labrys - Gameplay Discussion

[Urichinan]

Speaking of that, how are we gonna do combo notations for slab, specifically denoting asterios inputs and actual hits?

I guess heres the 5B punisher i've been using against DPs

CH 5B AoA (8C) j.A j.214B (8C hits) 214B, does around 3200 dmg

That's how I've been doing the notation.

She gets some really good damage from her 5B/2B, I'm finding some combos that are getting close to 4K meterless.

[susano]

Who would be a good S.Labrys to follow? Japanese wise.

My S. Labrys is still pretty ass but some people have been saying I'm pretty good with her (>_> I suck dammit).

And I agree 100% with the Mitsuru match. Her pokes are annoying. I would know because Vice Taicho raeped me.

[Urichinan]

Who would be a good S.Labrys to follow? Japanese wise.

Raria, Sazanami and Nashi are some of my personal favorites.

[susano]

Raria, Sazanami and Nashi are some of my personal favorites.

Oki-doki.

[Diveman]

Id like to make a request to update/modify the info in the S.Lab wiki, most of her normal's info is a copy paste from regular Labrys, so obviously its incorrect, like 5B or 2B being chargeable, or B Brutal impact being unblockable if fully charged, or her Guillotine Axe increasing "Axe gauge".

[Urichinan]

Id like to make a request to update/modify the info in the S.Lab wiki, most of her normal's info is a copy paste from regular Labrys, so obviously its incorrect, like 5B or 2B being chargeable, or B Brutal impact being unblockable if fully charged, or her Guillotine Axe increasing "Axe gauge".

Anybody can edit the wiki, you just need to answer the captcha.

[TheRealBobMan]

Hey, I'm noticing that gatlings from the other thread like "CH 5A > 5B > 2A+B (870 DMG/10 SP Gained)" and "CH 5A > 2B > j.B > dj.B > j.214B (1274 DMG/15 SP Gained)" don't work. 5A doesn't lead into 5B/2B. Can someone explain what's up? Are you testing these off of counter-hits or something?

Also, because the wiki is so incomplete, I'm going to make some edits right now. You guys can double check my accuracy later I guess, but I tend to be pretty thorough about what I do.

[Urichinan]

Hey, I'm noticing that gatlings from the other thread like "CH 5A > 5B > 2A+B (870 DMG/10 SP Gained)" and "CH 5A > 2B > j.B > dj.B > j.214B (1274 DMG/15 SP Gained)" don't work. 5A doesn't lead into 5B/2B. Can someone explain what's up? Are you testing these off of counter-hits or something?

Also, because it's so incomplete, I'm going to make some edits right now. You guys can double check my accuracy later I guess, but I tend to be pretty thorough about what I do.

Yes, 5A > 5B is counter hit only. Which is what the CH stands for. CH 5A= Counter hit 5A.

[TheRealBobMan]

Bleh, I read the CH and it didn't register for some reason. Ok, no worries.

Edit: Ok, so why is it that I only see where I can edit damage? What if I want to include Guard and SP values?

Never mind, played with it and figured it out. I'll add these in really quick. Or maybe just the guard values... SP seems to have decimal values, so sometimes a move is worth 5 and other times 6. I don't want to think that much.

[ANhiro]

Edited a lot of the normal descriptions so it is no longer a copypaste of Labry's normals.

[Xull]

As far as the wiki goes I just edited some damage values and added extra info about some of her SB attacks. Do with it what you will.

I'm finding my hardest match ups right now to be against zoning characters with fast response mechanisms (Elizabeth with her 236A from a safe distance away). Is the best course of action just to super jump air dash over horizontal projectiles of this nature, or play the instant block into dash tug of war?

[Adelheid]

I also edited the wiki, editing basically every description and noting various properties that were otherwise missed.

[Urichinan]

As far as the wiki goes I just edited some damage values and added extra info about some of her SB attacks. Do with it what you will.

I'm finding my hardest match ups right now to be against zoning characters with fast response mechanisms (Elizabeth with her 236A from a safe distance away). Is the best course of action just to super jump air dash over horizontal projectiles of this nature, or play the instant block into dash tug of war?

Depending on the character and situation both are good. For Elizabeth I like to super jump and do 8C > Airdash to keep her from hitting Asterios and I get approach options.

[Adelheid]

Gonna start collecting frame data. I may as well.

Edit: Oh man. 5A is -9 on block. That is funny. Ahaha.

[SolarMisae]

Edit: Oh man. 5A is -9 on block. That is funny. Ahaha.

orz

Thats fun, thats real fun.

[Adelheid]

I know this is not exactly a great tactic on display here, but

I feel compelled to post it. It's really funny to me.

[Adelheid]

Oh, yes, it's definitely in that pseudo-autoguard invuln state. I felt comfortable in my lead that game and after dropping my pickup after the last reset I just decided to bait anti air grab staying in the air to be cheeky knowing that even if he didn't do it and blocked I'd still have the advantage, but... I also held D too long and did the super the wrong way. I was surprised that it hit, but I guess he stuck his foot into the very back of it. Looking back at it, though, it feels kinda "homo-genius."

Edit: re:2B after command grab, offline I land it every time. I actually look at the combo counter as a timing aid, the right timing is a bit after "3" shows up. Online I vary my timing to keep up with the slight lag, so it's a bit less consistent... I was a touch too early right there. I always just do j.B j.A 214A to whatever reset I feel like, or sometimes brio if I want just a bit more damage and can't super. j.BB is involved if in the corner, of course.

[Adelheid]

anyways, about to upload a quick vid with the other practical unblockables. also i found out that unlike gg, you can hit an overhead and low on the exact same frame for a true unblockable (not even 1f blockable, cpu can't even do it with block switching turned on)

Alright, so, I thought this was the case in BlazBlue way back when I was playing Carl in very early CT, but it's actually not true. Since it's the same engine, I assume it's still the case. The game checks if they block the first hit, and if so they're marked as blocking for that frame, even if something else also hit that frame that they wouldn't have blocked. The CPU in training mode detects it in reverse order and gets hit despite trying to block everything. I don't remember which is calculated first but I'm sure it'd be easy to test. Of course, varying timing at all makes that a non issue, but...

Edit: It's also possible it was a bug fixed in a later version of BB, and it is actually unblockable now. I only checked in CT.

[GenoWhirl]

Does 5AA© > 2AB > C hits > Airdash jBB > Guillotine B (2056 dmg, 26 SP gain) when in the middle of the screen count as a kind of midscreen combo?

also, I'm a bit confused

5AAA(2C) > (2C Hits) Dash Under Opponent > j.B > dj.A > j.214A (1500 DMG/30 SP Gained)

does 1434 dmg for me

5AA(2C) > 2A+B > (2C Hits) > j.A > j.B > dj.A > j.214A (1772 DMG/21 SP Gained)

does 1682/20 sp

CH 5A > 5B(2C) > 2A+B(2C Hits) > Dash Under Opponent > j.B > dj.A > j.214A(2C) > (2C Hits) j.214B (2227 DMG/34 SP Gained)

Does 2412 dmg/ 33 sp gain for me

is there any hidden factor in these? maybe some lv thing I'm missing or something...

[ANhiro]

2C combos might not always give the number stated on the combo list because depending on the position of Asterius, all the hits might not hit.

[kokujindayo]

Pretty new to these types of games so still trying to figure out certain aspects of the game.

I do have a question about the chie matchup.. It seems like her pressure is nonstop, like I really don't know what to do.

Any advice on how to approach this matchup? Thanks

[Urichinan]

Does 5AA© > 2AB > C hits > Airdash jBB > Guillotine B (2056 dmg, 26 SP gain) when in the middle of the screen count as a kind of midscreen combo?

also, I'm a bit confused

5AAA(2C) > (2C Hits) Dash Under Opponent > j.B > dj.A > j.214A (1500 DMG/30 SP Gained)

does 1434 dmg for me

5AA(2C) > 2A+B > (2C Hits) > j.A > j.B > dj.A > j.214A (1772 DMG/21 SP Gained)

does 1682/20 sp

CH 5A > 5B(2C) > 2A+B(2C Hits) > Dash Under Opponent > j.B > dj.A > j.214A(2C) > (2C Hits) j.214B (2227 DMG/34 SP Gained)

Does 2412 dmg/ 33 sp gain for me

is there any hidden factor in these? maybe some lv thing I'm missing or something...

You're not getting all of the hits from 2C, or you might be missing one of the hits from Guillotine Axe.

The first combo doesn't count as a mid-screen combo unless you can do it out of the corner. From what I just tested, you can start this mid-screen, but you need to be in the corner in order for the IAD > j.BB to hit. So that would count as a near corner combo.

Pretty new to these types of games so still trying to figure out certain aspects of the game.

I do have a question about the chie matchup.. It seems like her pressure is nonstop, like I really don't know what to do.

Any advice on how to approach this matchup? Thanks

Please take match-up discussion to the match-up threads. Thank you. =)

[kokujindayo]

Ah ok, I apologize.

[GSAlex]

So, let's talk shop. I'd love if someone could attack and/or agree with the things I'm saying. Maybe shine some light on my Slabbykins theories, or blow the ones I use out of the water.

Compared to regular Labrys, Slab doesn't have access to the same ridiculous damage output, but what she does have is Asterius. Her oki game is pretty solid, in that she has some reasonably ambiguous mixups that lead to solid damage and more knockdowns. Combos that end in sweep or in the axe give you the opportunity to call Asterius in and begin the shenanigans.

Those being:

From either the beam or the knuckle train, at midscreen, you have an obvious opportunity to jump at a grounded opponent. Since you lose a P card if Asty gets hit, the beam is more or less obviously safer, in addition to the longer duration of the beam in comparison to the single hit of the knuckle train. The tradeoff, of course, being that the knuckle train gives access to good damage. Other openers include going for unblockables with the buffalo hammer, and sectioning off their ability to jump with 2C. I believe the 8C is less of an oki option and more of a means of opening the opponent up from a neutral position. The Asty command grab is a good move that leads to good damage, not just from the followup, but from the move itself. I haven't come up with any good setups for it yet, but I'd like to hear on them.

With Asty running interference, there's the high/low game, and the crossup game. Slab's j.B crosses up without even needing an aerial turn input. Furthermore, 5As are jump-cancellable on hit or on block, so a meaty 5A allows for more jumps, more crossups and more time to mixup and score that knockdown.

The biggest problem to this, of course, is opponents not caring about your mixup. If either Slab or Asty gets hit, your mixup is over. FAs like Mitsuru's or Yu's are particularly good. Of course, if you block a FA, then you can get a full punish, so dash-up/walk-up -> block is also a valid mixup. It will probably cost you a P card, but it's an option to consider.

2B is a good tool defensively that leads to good damage. 2C controls jump-height and protects you from some attacks, to a certain extent. Defending with D is a thing you should be almost constantly doing. You probably shouldn't use Asty as bait. Not because it's cruel to him, but more because it's not really effective, as well as screwing it up leaves you open to attack and limits your offensive options.

The titan super is really good, but it's also really bad. It leads to good damage and can set up for your B Brutal Impact. You can input up to three commands, which can mean a big combo or three opportunities to mix your opponent up. Hit confirming is key for maximizing damage, and if Asty gets spooked, you're out fifty meter, so it's a good idea to do it when you're at a huge meter advantage, when you're shooting for the moon, and when you think they won't swing at Asty.

So, please folks of the board, rip me a new one, that I may be better at Slab.

[TheRealBobMan]

I just spent like 4 hours practicing it, and I finally got the 1st IK setup from that video to work.

Considering that I haven't really had time to play any game like this for so long in a really REALLY long time, it feels good to put some effort into something and see results. I figure I'll dedicate whatever time I can manage to get these consistent as it's good basic practice for me using stick anyway. I started about a year ago when I picked up I-No, but an hour of play time every 2 weeks isn't really enough to learn to play on one of these things. When I feel confident, I'll post some detailed suggestions to help people get the timing down. I should get all of these consistent, and then see if they work on all characters.

For now, if people want to practice those, I guess it's worth mentioning that for the one I practiced, you have plenty of time for each set-up before the big fire hit of Titanomachia, so don't feel rushed. For the most part, it feels like getting things in slightly earlier or trying to get Labrys higher in the air before the flames come out wont make a difference. If you have trouble linking the uppercut to j.B to the flames, do sj.B late, like when Labrys hits the peak of being launched. It also feels like you have tons of time to hit-confirm the super off of the wallbounce, so you wouldn't waste the meter on a non CH FA. Also, if you happen to do it too late (feels like you might not be in range if she's already bouncing off of the wall), you can easily confirm that and do a completely different set-up with the super.

The hard part is actually knowing when to go into IK mode following the flames, and learning the timing for the actual throw out of the stance change, because you're off-screen and your only visual cues are the lights. What helped me most was just doing her IK on a standing opponent and pausing repeatedly, watching the game advance only a few frames at a time, so I could see exactly when it goes active. Then I was able to adjust my combo timing as Labrys was falling into my failed grab attempts, since I could repeat that and see if I was too late or too early. It honestly felt like I was too early at times, but doing this revealed that even when I was trying to start the IK stance earlier and earlier, I was late, and Labrys had time to tech. I started doing my inputs faster to shave off a few frames rather than risk an accidental AoA or sweep. Whether or not you believe it, this method was really useful for me since you can't really see Labrys falling into the throw attempt because the screen doesn't move fast enough, but if you try to move just a few frames at a time with pausing, you can see if she techs before or after your throw should have gone active, once they come into view.