[Accent Core] Sol Badguy General Discussion

[andresakatito]

Stagger inducing Fafnir seriously looks brutal. And only 25% meter for a huge amount of chip or a good SW loop setup? Yes please.

Clean Hit BB is a godsend. 66% proration isn't very fun (Even though people who get hit by it in the air have to be blind).

No forced prorate SW would be a dream come true.

And I seriously hope they extend the throw invincibility on FB Fafnir to the regular one.

Me too. But if they removed the FB from it, I'd imagine they would remove those invincibility frames. I'm hoping for the best though!

[VR-Raiden]

Me too. But if they removed the FB from it, I'd imagine they would remove those invincibility frames. I'm hoping for the best though!

He still has the FB version. Now he has the FB fafnir along with a normal version done with H.

[destruction_adv]

Any word on if normal Fafnir is throw invunerable?

[Linear04]

nobody knows, but it looks like its cancelable tho

[destruction_adv]

nobody knows, but it looks like its cancelable tho

Well yeah, but all we saw was a cancel into Tyrant Rave, by the way, now that you can do it for 25% meter, that tyrant rave looks a bit more attactive (not OMG I have 25% tension Tyrant Rave time, but definitely better than having to use 50% of it)

[VR-Raiden]

Well yeah, but all we saw was a cancel into Tyrant Rave, by the way, now that you can do it for 25% meter, that tyrant rave looks a bit more attactive (not OMG I have 25% tension Tyrant Rave time, but definitely better than having to use 50% of it)

Yeah that is pretty nice, might end up being good for some corner combos. That or just whenever you want the nice frame advantage/chip damage it gives.

Now I'm wondering if normal fafnir can clean hit.

[destruction_adv]

If it does still clean hit, tensionless fafnir would be nice if someone tries to jump out of gunflame pressure and eats a clean hit into a SW loop. Also, can you actually clean hit someone on block in regular GGAC? I've done it in the psp version so I wonder what properties a clean hit on block does.

[VR-Raiden]

Also, can you actually clean hit someone on block in regular GGAC? I've done it in the psp version so I wonder what properties a clean hit on block does.

Yeah you can, it can lead to things I never fully understood: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAZRxUIFgTg

[Orrax]

It stores the clean hit so long as you hit your opponent right away. It's like having a free unprorated clean hit before the combo even begins.

[andresakatito]

It stores the clean hit so long as you hit your opponent right away. It's like having a free unprorated clean hit before the combo even begins.

That's very interesting, I've landed a blocked Clean Hit Sidewinder before but didn't know it had this property to it. Does anyone know of any setups for a mix up? Or perhaps we could all brainstorm to think of something to mix them up?

Also, I'm guessing we'll find out more info on Sol's updates when they do the testing on June 2nd and 3rd. I don't want to wait anymore!

[Orrax]

I forgot to mention: you have to RC it. So, the setup would be a blocked clean sidewinder in the air, RC, then either an airdash to go high or 2k on landing. I don't think I've ever actually landed it in a match, though. It's just not very practical.

[Darcius]

edit: whoah, kusoru does the 2d and it works? stolen

Edited June 2, 2012 by Darcius

[VR-Raiden]

So I'm revisiting the GF FRC > WT trick. Probably helps that I'm using stick now but I actually managed to get it a few times in training. After looking at frame data I think I've always been missing it because you have to FRC the GF on frame 14 since if you get it on frame 15, the flame will connect when WT is.

I managed to get it off a blocked 5P, but nothing else so far. I'm pretty sure I've seen it off 5K(1) and 2K before, but not positive. Anyone know for a fact what normals it works from on normal block?

EDIT: went a few pages back and saw some input on this I still need to look into.

Edited November 6, 2012 by VR-Raiden

[Orrax]

It definitely works after 2K. I've never tried it with 5K.

I think, if I'm doing my math right and WT has a 5 frame start up, it should work even if you FRC GF on frame 15. The problem is that it has to start on literally the next possible frame (frame 16). So, 16 (frame 1) + 4 more frames = frame 20 (5 frames total). Or maybe I'm screwing something up; I don't know. Either way, it should be negative edged really fast.

Also, I seem to recall hearing that throws have priority in GG. If WT and GF both go active on the same frame, doesn't WT connect and not the GF? Well, either way, the timing is tight. It's pretty hype if you pull it off, though.

EDIT: After messing around a bit in #R where GF was one frame faster, I couldn't get it to work at all. So, you may be right. It should probably get some more testing in case my timing is off, though.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Orrax

[r0b0t]

So I'm revisiting the GF FRC > WT trick. Probably helps that I'm using stick now but I actually managed to get it a few times in training. After looking at frame data I think I've always been missing it because you have to FRC the GF on frame 14 since if you get it on frame 15, the flame will connect when WT is.

I managed to get it off a blocked 5P, but nothing else so far. I'm pretty sure I've seen it off 5K(1) and 2K before, but not positive. Anyone know for a fact what normals it works from on normal block?

EDIT: went a few pages back and saw some input on this I still need to look into.

First of all it's dubbed the R0B0T special, I am the most consistent sol player to use the trick. Here the video I made of it 5+ years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spAmGdr9tf8&feature=g-upl

Also I hit kid viper a couple of times with it in this first to ten.

http://www.twitch.tv/r0b0t2k/c/1715372 24:25 I hit kidviper with 5k>5s>R0B0T Special

That is if you feel like watching the whole thing. Anyway if you can do it consistently it works really well. Players that are used to your block strings though will find ways around it, I.E. hold up. So you need to learn to be able to do other normals like 2p>2k>R0b0T Special hahah! 2D>R0B0T special.

P.S. I was doing it before kurosuro or whatever his name is.

Also negative edge is the secret to making this work consistently and lots of practice to get the muscle memory down.

Also the whole it being dubbed ROBOT Special thing, just ask old school mid west.

Simon yoo or Q or AKA.

Hope the videos help.

And ill be at NEC I hope to make it far in the GGXX tournament they will have there. hopefully it will be streamed! I plan on hitting many people with the trick. It works well on those not accustomed to it.

Edited November 20, 2012 by r0b0t

[VR-Raiden]

Ok, I thought I'd heard it called that before but didn't know the details or history of that. Thanks for the vids and tips.

I'll also be at NEC hopefully I can practice it enough to maybe put it to use.

[r0b0t]

Ok, I thought I'd heard it called that before but didn't know the details or history of that. Thanks for the vids and tips.

I'll also be at NEC hopefully I can practice it enough to maybe put it to use.

Awesome see ya there. I feel though that I am far from my prime in 2007-2008 was when I was at my best with Sol. But we will see. Hopefully Gear will see a revival of sorts.

[Kaizen]

Does anybody know what constitutes whether Aerial/TK'D Bandit Revolver does three hits versus only two? I'm trying to come up with some BR loops that capitalize off of it because aerial Bandit Revolver builds a shitload of meter.

At max tension pulse (excluding slashbacks and instant blocks), I can airthrow I-no in the corner and do c.S j.S j.K j.D j.BR |> 5K(1) j.P j.S VV TK and build about 50% meter.

In comparison, Airthrow to c.S j.BR (3) x 4 builds close to 80% meter instead.

[VR-Raiden]

Wow I was literally just trying some air throw combos in corner haha. I'm trying to find out what characters you can c.S, and which you have to 5k. I'm not sure what exactly changes the amount of hits on air BR, I assume it to be a combination of how high/far they are when BR hits and, the characters hitbox.

[Kaizen]

Seems like you can c.S everybody except Johnny, Robo, Pot, Slayer, Venom, Zappa, and Eddie (Bridget pushes you out pretty far so you need to dash in).

The best I can do to most characters is c.S j.SKD j.B |> 5K(1)2H HSVV, and it's ranging between 109 and 148 damage, averaging 118 or 123, and it works on pretty much everybody not included above. Extreme lightweights (May, Jam, Bridget, Kliff), and Millia and Dizzy require either a delay before the c.S, or some sort of variation of the above combo, like omitting j.K or using 5K(1) j.P/K j.S VV instead of 5K(1)2H HSVV.

5K(1) j.KSD j.BR |> 5K(1)2H HSVV works on Eddie, Slayer, and Zappa, and on Venom but it's really strict. It works on Pot if you use j.PSD instead of j.KSD.

I can't get anything better than 5k2H HSVV on Robo or 5K j.KSD HSVV on Johnny though...

As for BR, I'm still not quite sure about any sort of formula or guideline for getting all three hits, but I did manage to get 5K,c.S j.BR(3) |> [c.S j.BR(3)]x4 to work on I-no (straight from the ground, not off an airthrow). It gives about 55-60% meter normally and it built about 90-93% at max pulse.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Kaizen

[VR-Raiden]

Alright cool, I got similar results. I never really explored corner air throw combos in depth before, but it's been happening enough for me to realize I could be doing much better ones.

Using your first combo, I got this:

air throw cS jSKD jBR 5K(1) jPS SW superjump back jS SVV corner knockdown for 123 on Sol (instead of 118). Only tested on him so far.

It's probably pretty character specific, and I'm still messing around with it so it might be improved.

I'm also curious what characters you can get multiple air BR reps on, and how many for each. and I'm finding that cS jBR misses on some characters, where 5K(1) j.BR works (such as RO).

oh for now on RO and JO, looks like theres this:

RO - air throw cS 6P HVV (83 dmg)

JO - air throw 5K 5H HVV (90 dmg)

Edited December 21, 2012 by VR-Raiden

[Kaizen]

Did some more testing.

Haven't tried your general airthrow combo yet, but sounds cool. I'll probably stick to 5K2H HSVV though, because it's safer.

On Robo Ky, airthrow c.S 6P HSVV is definitely better than what I was doing. I did manage to get airthrow 5K(1) j.BR(3) [c.S j.BR(3)]x2 5K(1) j.BR(3) for 92 damage and almost 75% meter at max pulse.

On Johnny, I can't connect a tkBR out of 5K or cS, unfortunately. However, the combo I posted earlier, 5K(1) j.KSD HSVV does 97.

Turns out you can get the c.S on Eddie out of airthrow, but it's pretty tight timing and 5K is much easier.

I'm starting to notice patterns on whether BR hits twice or thrice now. It has to do with four things: weight class, character height, distance BR was tiger knee'd from the ground, and whether the BR was normal or super jumped. There are plenty of instances where I have to decide between doing a j.BR as close to the ground as possible, or delaying a sj.BR after leaving the ground. There are instances where I'm getting 3 hits by inputting BR after jumping instead of tiger knee'ing.

Lightweights are the easiest to get 3 hits BRs and multiple launches on. On corner air throws, it is extraordinarily easy to go into this. Simply dash in, 5K(1) j.BR, [c.S j.BR(3)]x2/3, 5K(1) BR/j.BR. You'll want to do c.S with the opponent as close to the ground as possible before going for the BR. j.BR vs. sj.BR doesn't seem to make too much of a difference. You can also do these by dash in 5K, 5Kc.S, 2H, etc. As long as the move/string doesn't push you out to far, and you're still carrying your dash momentum, you can go into tk.BR pretty easily. On Baiken, out of an airthrow, this built about 84% meter (max pulse) and did about 142 damage.

I'm still testing on other weight classes, but here's a list of them for reference.

Lightweight (gravity rating x1.10): May, Baiken, Jam, Bridget

Welterweight (gravity rating x1.05): Millia, Dizzy, I-no

Middleweight (gravity rating x1.00): Sol, Ky, Axl, Chipp, Faust, Eddie, Testament, Anji, Venom, Slayer, Zappa

Heavyweight (gravity rating x.98): Johnny, ABA, Order Sol

Super Heavyweight (gravity rating x.94/.95): Potemkin, Robo Ky

Edited December 21, 2012 by Kaizen

[VR-Raiden]

Yeah after trying the combo I posted more it's kinda finnicky, I would probably not land that in matches. I did find this though, which seems more stable:

air throw cS jSKD jBR(2) 5K(1) cS jBR(2) 5K(1) BR (120 dmg on Sol)

still not as stable as just doing 5K 2H HVV, since you have to do 5K(1) low enough or the BR won't hit

EDIT: Actually I'm finding the combo I posted to be a lot easier on Axl, you can just normal jump back jS (or jD), but he's the only one I've found so far it actually seems practical on.

Seems like j.BR loops are the way to go on Robo, for damage and the meter gain.

I really wish they would stop getting dizzy while I'm trying this stuff

EDIT2:

Alright so I'm trying to organize the combos you posted Kaizen. not including air BR loops yet, which definitely seem optimal on at least the lightweights and Robo, but I think these combos are still worth knowing since they're very easy on most for good damage. I only found a couple things different from what you posted originally when I was trying them on everyone, but correct me if I'm wrong.

cS > jSKD > jBR > 5K(1) 2H HVV

- AB (103), AX (123), CH (152), ED (123), FA (118), KY (119), OS (112), SL (112), SO (118)

(I get cS to work on Slayer like the others)

delay cS > jSKD > jBR > 5K(1) 2H HVV

- AN (123), DI (133), IN (123), MI (145), TE (119)

dash cS > jSKD > jBR > 5K > jPS SVV

- BA (136), BR (123), JA (119), MA (123), ZA (118)

(works on Zappa but really tight timing on the cS, below combo on him is easier)

5K > jKSD > jBR > 5K(1) 2H HVV

- PO (95), VE (115), ZA (111)

(5K hits on the 2nd hit here, and you have to do 5K immediately into jK immediately or it misses)

5K(1) > jKSD > HVV

- JO (97)

cS > 6P > HVV

- RO (83)

Edited December 22, 2012 by VR-Raiden

[Kaizen]

Buttons

That seems about right. Good work. I ended up getting c.S to work on Slayer, too.

I haven't been testing BR loops much lately (been busy with transfer applications), but I have been screwing around with some odd confirms for the last two days. For example, if you Bandit Revolver mid pressure and the second hit lands while they're crouching and right in your face, you have a modestly easy confirm into 5k2d HSVV/Tyrant Rave/GV RC launch (lightweights)/ and 5k5h Fafnir in +R. If you dash into the Bandit Revolver or carry enough momentum, you can generally confirm into 5k5h Grand Viper, which means 200+ on pretty much everybody.

Since Bandit Revolver goes over a lot of stuff, it's a good opener if you know the opponent is going to start with a laggy, lower poke (like I-no's 2H, for instance), or if they're going to try to instant block Gunflame. It's rare, but it's worth knowing. On standing hit, however, the move is unsafe (what). Hopefully the 1 frame faster recovery in +R is worth something!

Another thing I've noticed is that no notable Sol players I watch open with 6P. It beats a bunch of common opening moves, like Ky's f.S, Pot's f.S, and Sol's 5H, and can combo meterless from midscreen with finesse. It even beats some moves you might not expect, like Baiken's 2S and Pot's 2P. If you delay it a bit, you can go into Bandit Bringer on counter hit (this works anywhere, unlike GF IAD j.H SW, or 2S(whiff) dash, relaunch, which only work near the corner). In order to properly combo, you should input your dash the moment you land and hold it (6[6]). You've also got some more optimal, character specific followups.

Examples:

Lightweights, Anji:

CH 6P 2S (whiff), dash 5K/c.S 2H j.S/H SW, 7.SW, dash 2H 8.SW, BR. ~190-210 damage.

Dash 5k is recommended for ease of use. C.S is only slightly more difficult to land and gives a minor damage increase.

Almost universal (lightweight recommended):

CH 6P (moderate delay) Bandit Bringer, dash 5k 2h j.S/H SW, dash j.S SW, nj.S SW, BR. ~180-220 damage.

The third sidewinder requires you jump straight up.

Middleweights:

CH 6P (moderate delay) Bandit Bringer, dash 5k 2h j.S/H SW, c.S BR. ~160-200 damage.

Does less, but puts them in the corner. Substitute the dash 5K with dash c.S against Slayer, Axl, and other characters characters with low profile slides that make 5K whiff.

Faust and Pot:

CH 6P (slight delay) Bandit Bringer, GV, j.D SW, 7SW, c.S 5H jSK SW, c.S(2H) BR. ~ 200 on Pot, ~240 on Faust.

For the Grand Viper, mash enough that you would normally get 4 or 5 hits.

Sol and Ky recommended (BB is extremely difficult to land due to their falling animations):

CH 6P (major delay), GV, dash j.D SW, dash c.S 2H tk.9SW, 5K/c.S BR. ~200-230 damage.

Delay inputting Grand Viper until they're about to bounce off the wall. Mash GV like you would in the combo listed above.

Stronger variation of the above:

CH 6P (major delay), GV, dash j.D SW, dash j.S SW, nj.S SW, BR. ~220-260 damage.

Still gotta do some more testing, but even though 6P isn't the best in AC, it just keeps getting closer to one of my favorite pokes. With BB causing floor bounce again and 6P having the hitstun buff, these are probably going to become better in +R.

Also, a note about CH 6P 2S (whiff). Since 2S recovers so quickly (same recovery speed as 2K), you can input your dash near the end of it and run almost immediately. Then you dash in and 5K/c.S 2H j.S SW loop. This will work when you space 6P against everybody, but against some characters, 2S will hit and end up ruining your combo. Thus, when 2S whiffs up close, this will work well when you land a CH 6P amid a frame trap.

2S will whiff up close against: Millia, Eddie, Axl, Chipp, Testament, Bridget, Faust, I-no, Slayer, Anji, Jam, Dizzy, Zappa, and ABA.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Kaizen
because derp

[floatwater]

I'm going to migrate myself here so yeah, HI THERE.