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Hatred Edge

[Accent Core] Sol Badguy General Discussion

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OK so I know you can do some fuzzy guard set-ups with sol against some of the taller characters. I just want to know what are good moves to set this up with and get a good combo as I have yet to set up a SW loop using the fuzzy guard setup. Right now I just use something like: deep j.S > dj.S > j.Hs/j.D > combo Is this all there really is to it or is there a better method for leading to SW loops? Also, I know this works on Pot, but can it also be used against some of the taller characters like johnny and still be useful?

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I don't know how important 2k is, but I feel dropping it in general for 2S isn't such a bad idea....2k prorates a 70%. I feel I haven't done anything if I land a 2K, into whatever combo, as it barely takes 140 damage if you do it right. While 2S doesn't hit low, it leaves you with a better frame advantage for tick throws, and no proration. Most people that know anything about Sol know he only has good a low/throw mix-up any way,which in essence is just a hit or grab anyway. This doesn't cancel out the possible 5D mix-up though, because after a GF FRC most people block low expecting a 2k anyway, unless they know how you play. And they start only blocking high expecting either a 2S or 5D, you can throw a 2k in there and catch them. What do you guys think?

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2K is pretty good for beating out most lows in general. its a pretty fast low poke, with better range then 2P. 2S for sol is good, but its not as fast as 2K. using 2S at max range for spacing is great and all, because the recovery and advantage is good whether it connects or not, but it has to come out before another move. 2K is good if your at the range where it is guaranteed to connect and snuff out a number of moves, and you can always cancel it into 5S -> 2S to still have the advantage in the situation. i believe despite the pushback, you can toss out 5H or 2D after to try and score counterhits if people try and poke out.

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Well, in direct comparison, 2S completely outclasses 2K in everything except startup time. The more I look at it on paper the more practical it seems dropping 2K due to overall damage and reach. Move: 2K Damage: 12 TG: 1.44 GB+ : 3 GB- : 8 Lv : 1 Guard : LF Cancel : CR Startup : 6 Active :3 Recovery : 8 SD : -1 Notes: 70% Proration. Move: 2S Damage: 25 TG: 2.64 GB+ : 7 GB- : 3 Lv : 3 Guard : HLF Cancel : CR Startup : 10 Active :3 Recovery : 8 SD : +3 Notes : None. I also tested out a combo on Sol. 2S/2K , 2D, BR(1), RC, SW, nj. S, SW, nj. S, SW, BR. The 2k variation did 155 while the 2S variation did 199. A 44 point difference. Definitely accountable IMO. While it is true that 2K snuffs out many moves at close range, that non-prorated damage seems so useful, just for a 4 frame sacrifice. = \ I think all I need now is use in actual matches....

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2K is a low anyone not blocking low when you attempt that combo they get the damage if you tried 2S in the same situation it wouldn't work since its not a low its also fast really i don't understand why would would ever consider taking it out of your game mix it up with both theres no reason why you have to limit yourself to certain moves i mean your sol afterall your not that cheddar

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While it is true that 2K snuffs out many moves at close range, that non-prorated damage seems so useful, just for a 4 frame sacrifice. = \

4 frames makes quite a difference.

they are 2 different moves used for different purposes.

by your logic, 6H is superior to 2S in every way, better guard build up, better damage, better dizzy damage, and blah blah ... when i start combos with 6H they do more damage then if I do combos that start out with 2S. The 3 frame difference in start up is a small price to pay.

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Now that I really think about it, I guess unless I have 50% tension and I'm going for the BR RC combo into the loop, I should be using 2K. What really got me going into this was a match I had against a Slayer a few days ago. I did a loop I started with 2K and didn't kill him, it did pitiful damage,and I couldn't believe I wasted 50% tension into the BR RC combo. He had no health left,and he just did BBU, BBU, BBU and killed me. I looked further into and saw that Isa pretty much doesn't use 2K at all, so I decided to post it here to see what you people thought........ EDIT: I hope you aren't serious with that comparison. >_>

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So my 2 cents: I don't think taking 2K out of your game would be wise at all. As already mentioned it is obviously a low and will hit in some situations where 2s will not. You seem to be basing your conclusion off of the fact that since sol has no good overheads people will simply block low against everything he does and look for throws. While this may be true lows still serve some important roles in your pressure. People trying to jump out of your pressure will get hit by a low, j.S oki can lead to empty jump 2k mixup stuff (which is fast enough to catch some off guard and will at least make them change the way they are blocking), and corner oki with air dashed setups with multiple aerials into a low that can be difficult to block. Obviously most of this is situational but I would argue most of sol's moves are. (not to mention this doesn't take into account the many moves that are only lower body vulnerable like alot of anji's stuff and BBU come to mind) Not saying that 2k is a superior move or anything, just that I can't see you being as effective just inserting 2s in every situation you would normally do 2k. Also, the fact that you can gattling into c.s > 2s makes 2k even moderately useful for starting block strings that end in advantage. On a seperate note, 2K has that weird momentum keeping property that doesn't seem as strong in 2S for what ever that's worth? (can do the cool block string where you WT someone before the gunflame hits em' :)) EDIT- I see ISA do 2K in block strings sometimes like 2p,2p,2p,2k,2d at least I think so?

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I hope you aren't serious with that comparison. >_>

and i hope you read the part that said "by your logic", because it illustrates a point.

I looked further into and saw that Isa pretty much doesn't use 2K at all, so I decided to post it here to see what you people thought........

you have to stop asking why is it he doesn't use a specific move, but why in certain situations he decides to use a specific move. what is he trying to accomplish?

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2k is only 1 frame faster than 2d but 2d doesn't prorate and 2k prorates 70%. Then again you can do 2k>2h>GV while 2d doesn't give you that option. Expert Sol Badguy here

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well there is a matchup section which is incomplete though. matchup is really opinionated. you should probably ask a question more specific like ... "who are sol's bad matchups?"

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Can someone link me the old vid of Sol using TK VV at opponents wake-up for ghetto "unblockable"?

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best move is kind of hard to say, since most of the moves are situational. j.H is pretty ridiculous. personally, i think it is overall more useful then j.P, but like i said, moves are situational.

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I'm curious about Sol's frame traps. I'm already using some, such as 2S->5S(f), 5P->5S©, 2P->2P/6P/2D, and I've even had some success with j.K->5K and 2K->2K (surprisingly enough), but it seems like I could be doing more. I would think that 2S->2D and j.S/j.H->2D might work as well, or maybe even 2P/5P->5H since it gatlings but doesn't combo. Are there any others I should know about, or any ones that I'm currently using that really aren't safe?

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I'm very new with Sol, and I have no idea what his gameplan is. I heard he was a good beginner character, and as far as I can tell playing Sol just consists of rushing in and landing the biggest combo you know. I'm not getting much out of the Sol 101 thread besides which normals suck and that VV and GF are pretty good. So I really have no clue what I'm doing with Sol. :psyduck: Any help is great. Also, when using VV not in a combo, I should always 214K followup, right? There is no disadvantage to this? Why is Sol's command throw a staple part of his gameplay, like it says in Sol 101?

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I'm very new with Sol, and I have no idea what his gameplan is. I heard he was a good beginner character, and as far as I can tell playing Sol just consists of rushing in and landing the biggest combo you know. I'm not getting much out of the Sol 101 thread besides which normals suck and that VV and GF are pretty good.

So I really have no clue what I'm doing with Sol. :psyduck: Any help is great.

Just watch more vids about Sol is all I can say. Then you will understand what his game-plans are.

Also, when using VV not in a combo, I should always 214K followup, right? There is no disadvantage to this?

Yap, it gives knock down 100% when connects. If you can afford 50% tension, you could go for Sidewinder loop yay~

Why is Sol's command throw a staple part of his gameplay, like it says in Sol 101?

Command throw is unblock-able and deals a lot of damage + knockdown. Having a command throw means there is always possibility of mix-up with either low or throw.

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I'm curious about Sol's frame traps. I'm already using some, such as 2S->5S(f), 5P->5S©, 2P->2P/6P/2D, and I've even had some success with j.K->5K and 2K->2K (surprisingly enough), but it seems like I could be doing more. I would think that 2S->2D and j.S/j.H->2D might work as well, or maybe even 2P/5P->5H since it gatlings but doesn't combo. Are there any others I should know about, or any ones that I'm currently using that really aren't safe?

2K, 5S (both far and close), 2D, and 5H are all negative. so ending it with all of those don't give you frame advantage.

only thing is with 2K, if you do it at max range, your safe, and you can keep your offense on top of them. 2D pushes people out pretty far, so your generally safe, and 5H is jump cancellable, which also makes it safe when you do. though your only safe, so it still cuts off continuing your offensive. 5H may be debatable, so i wont put that under my previous statement.

good thing to keep in mind is 2P gives you frame advantage, and it is late cancellable. 6P is also late cancellable, and you can cancel your recovery at any time. 2S is really good for frame traps in general. there are a number of options you can open the game to if someone blocks the 2S, like baiting jumps, dash and attack, 5H, etc., etc., all depends on what your opponent has a tendency to do.

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Can someone link me the old vid of Sol using TK VV at opponents wake-up for ghetto "unblockable"?

Doesn't seem to be on youtube anymore. Miu was the guy that pulled it, though its not really an unblockable, more of a gimmick. What you do is run up to them and then do forward TK VV so you'll crossup when you hit them.

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Just watch more vids about Sol is all I can say. Then you will understand what his game-plans are.

That's the problem. As far as I can tell, the gameplan is to just wait for an opportunity to run in and combo. If that's it, cool. I'd just like to know if their is something I'm missing:eng101:

EDIT: Not just a combo, a sidewinder loop! Everything in the combo involves sidewinders:psyduck:

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Questions with some more substance:

Is Sol a mixup character? If so, what are his main mixups? GF/Wildthrow?

Sol 101 says that Sol's overhead specials suck (Bandit Bringer and Riot Stomp), so how do I push a high/low mixup? Or just wild throw them when they low block?

What's a good followup to a jumping H that hits?

I'm gonna go see if the combos in the reload tips thread still work. This looks promising.

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Is Sol a mixup character?

Totally

Sol 101 says that Sol's overhead specials suck (Bandit Bringer and Riot Stomp), so how do I push a high/low mixup? Or just wild throw them when they low block?

Only decent overhead is 5D, is fairly fast, but leaves you on CH state when blocked and has poor range.

BB and RS both suck balls.

What's a good followup to a jumping H that hits?

Depends on the situation.

I'm gonna go see if the combos in the reload tips thread still work.

Besides the basic and goofy stuff (ground gatlings into 2+D, BR or basic jump combos) they won't.

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