Nives Report post Posted September 1, 2008 a lot of sol's good overhead mixups start from an overhead into another overhead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FleetingPenguin Report post Posted September 1, 2008 Besides the basic and goofy stuff (ground gatlings into 2+D, BR or basic jump combos) they won't. Well, it's something to start with. Could you elaborate on some basic B&B stuff from a connected j.h air-to-ground? EDIT: or j.S. Those are the main jump-in attacks, right? a lot of sol's good overhead mixups start from an overhead into another overhead. Could you elaborate more? What are Sol's standard mixups? For example, in the Potemkin guide there is a a huge amount but I can't find any with Sol. Also, what about okizeme? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abominable K Report post Posted September 2, 2008 Sol's Oki consists of FRC'd Gunflame, and then either rush-in to continue pressure or mix-up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orrax Report post Posted September 3, 2008 good thing to keep in mind is 2P gives you frame advantage, and it is late cancellable. 6P is also late cancellable, and you can cancel your recovery at any time. 2S is really good for frame traps in general. there are a number of options you can open the game to if someone blocks the 2S, like baiting jumps, dash and attack, 5H, etc., etc., all depends on what your opponent has a tendency to do. Thanks for the info, Nives. I have a follow up question, though: what are some good ways to punish predicted jumps and backdashes? It seems like 5K and maybe airthrow could be good for predicted jumps, 5H could get most backdashes, and Fafnir could punish both. Anything I'm missing or am mistaken about? What are Sol's standard mixups? Also, what about okizeme? Couple of links: Sol 101: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhzR6rlPP8M Basic Combos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l75EJqaod6g Hopefully that gives you some answers. Also, don't end combos with OTG GF Faint like the guy in the "basic combos" vid does. =P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schank Report post Posted September 3, 2008 Seems to me like Sol doesn't have much in the high department. The mixup you might be looking for would be low or throw, not high or low like you might be thinking. Tick throws are gonna be your friend more than standing dust. This also contributes to the fact that Sol is considered a C-tier character. Some characters can mix you up high, low, or throw, but Sol is more low and throw with a sick dragon punch. ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nives Report post Posted September 4, 2008 Thanks for the info, Nives. I have a follow up question, though: what are some good ways to punish predicted jumps and backdashes? It seems like 5K and maybe airthrow could be good for predicted jumps, 5H could get most backdashes, and Fafnir could punish both. Anything I'm missing or am mistaken about? 5K is really good for punishing jumps and backdashes. while 5H is active for 2 frames, 5K is active for 8 frames. Seems to me like Sol doesn't have much in the high department. The mixup you might be looking for would be low or throw, not high or low like you might be thinking. Tick throws are gonna be your friend more than standing dust. This also contributes to the fact that Sol is considered a C-tier character. Some characters can mix you up high, low, or throw, but Sol is more low and throw with a sick dragon punch. ;-) sol's low and throw game is his strongest mixup, but that doesn't mean he doesnt have a high and low game. it isn't as good as other characters, but I don't think its horrible. its generally whether or not sol will hit twice from a high position, or hit once, then land, or there are a bunch of other options. j.S -> j.D, or you can even mix in bandit revolver FRC from really low, or early j.H into airdash, and then mix in throws. what makes a throw game strong is when people focus too much on the high and low mixup and forget you have a strong throw, and then you remind them. you can actually go into a number of variations and just be creative. i actually don't think sol is C-tier. i do believe he is better than that. i wouldn't say A-tier, but maybe a solid B. this actually isn't really worth arguing too much, since the middle tiers to lower tiers all have very flexible boundaries, but just pointing it out that, personally, sol is stronger than you think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hideki Report post Posted September 4, 2008 I agree with Nives. So should be low-mid B tier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reaVer Report post Posted September 4, 2008 I don't agree, because as soon as you know how to prevent Sol from doing his damage his mixup doesn't account for shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Champion Report post Posted September 4, 2008 LOL, you should go back to the HOS forum reaver. Sol's mixup is pretty straightforward, but that doesn't mean it's not strong. A solid high/low mixup is usually only possible from BR knockdown, where the opponent stays on the ground a bit more time, so land low or late ad j.s,j.d/j.h comes out meaty or almost meaty. And most importantly, the damage from it is always pretty big. If you want to be totally safe, you can still go for a well timed j.s/j.h/j.p into wild throw mixup, which is Sol's best oki option. On oppenents where you have problems timing j.s/j.h/etc well (like Chipp who gets up really late), you can always go with GF FRC oki, but you should usually save tension IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hideki Report post Posted September 4, 2008 The problem I find with meaty j.S, is that you can reversal backdash it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PacStrife Report post Posted September 4, 2008 if someone is backdashing your j.S oki then a late air dash -> j.s will hit them. Especially if they get predictable with it. I think Sol is C tier, but lucky for us this is guilty gear where tiers aren't even worth talking about, imo. But seriously look at the other characters in C tier right now, Sol along with the rest of them are all strong characters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hideki Report post Posted September 4, 2008 Mmm, that's a good tip. Gotta practice it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reaVer Report post Posted September 4, 2008 LOL, you should go back to the HOS forum reaver. Sol's mixup is pretty straightforward, but that doesn't mean it's not strong. A solid high/low mixup is usually only possible from BR knockdown, where the opponent stays on the ground a bit more time, so land low or late ad j.s,j.d/j.h comes out meaty or almost meaty. And most importantly, the damage from it is always pretty big. If you want to be totally safe, you can still go for a well timed j.s/j.h/j.p into wild throw mixup, which is Sol's best oki option. On oppenents where you have problems timing j.s/j.h/etc well (like Chipp who gets up really late), you can always go with GF FRC oki, but you should usually save tension IMO. His primary mixup is the most basic found in fightinggames. But if you keep him out of throw range he can't use it, even if he gets in throw range attempting to do that mixup risks an uppercut in his face. So yeah, he has a lot of stuff that goes into knockdown, which allows Sol to get close fairly easily to do his standard mixup, but what if he can't get that first hit in in the first place? That's the problem Sol has, if he can't get you in the situation he favors you avoid the mixup and avoid the damage that comes out of that mixup. I'm not saying that this is easy, but instead this is what Sol vs any character is going to be about, which in turn changes the game flow into something where Sol doesn't really shine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nives Report post Posted September 4, 2008 But if you keep him out of throw range he can't use it, even if he gets in throw range attempting to do that mixup risks an uppercut in his face. you could say that for anything. DP is not reliable. this type of situation only works if people know when you are going to DP every single time, which doesn't happen. you are also assuming everyone has a DP to use and use at the moment where sol is going to mix up into hit/throw. not to mention, sol has DP/super-safe j.H and j.S. its moot to argue tiers here, i was just saying that sol is better than people give him credit for. the reason he isn't high or top in the game is mainly because his tools aren't as strong, not because he is missing something (like everyone here is trying to rationalize for). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reaVer Report post Posted September 4, 2008 DP is really reliable if your opponent is attacking instead of guarding: it will always hit. Ok, so not everyone has a DP, Slayer has dandy step, DOT, Testament doesn't allow you to get in that situation to begin with and May has VD. Not even mentioning that the rest of the cast also has some bullshit to get them out or prevent Sol from getting in that situation. Super safe j.H and j.S only work as a meaty, outside they are DP beggars as much as any other attack. Next to that, j.S and j.H are option select backdash/guardable, after guarding those two attacks there's a little 5 frame gap where... you guessed it: your opponent can stick something in, some opponents can even use option select to guard any chains coming after j.S and j.H courtesy of autoguard: IG j.S, enter 623 quickly and if a low came you get guard, if there was a delay in the string you press H to DP anything else. And thanks to the IG, you don't get fuzzy guard and because he did it to avoid the DP he can't do another air attack without doublejumping. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hideki Report post Posted September 4, 2008 DP is really reliable if your opponent is attacking instead of guarding: it will always hit. Best mixup ever = Sol S+ tier Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brent-quest Report post Posted September 4, 2008 Lol. Yes Sol is a solid character. Unfortunately the tiers in this game aren't based on overall strengths but rather on matchup strengths. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackG Report post Posted September 4, 2008 Look man as far as I know VV is good in pretty much every matchup so you can't really say Sol has any bad matchups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hatred Edge Report post Posted September 4, 2008 Dude wants to learn Sol and you tell him a lie like that? Sol has no bad matchups? In Accent Core? Eddie, Faust, Zappa, Buri. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Juice Report post Posted September 4, 2008 Dude wants to learn Sol and you tell him a lie like that? Sol has no bad matchups? In Accent Core? Eddie, Faust, Zappa, Buri. I'm pretty sure he was being facetious. If he wasn't... then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cadenza Report post Posted September 4, 2008 Actually, Marlin IBs my j.H like 75% of the time. So, it's great in that it forces me to mix up a little more but against him I don't ever really use j.H as oki very much. It turns into free punish, usually throw. So now I try to delay j.H, which in turn gives him an opportunity to do something else if I screw it up as I'm unable use training mode for now. Especially when I play his Potemkin, good god it turns into free PB. It's always good experience fighting him. :P Oh, he also slashbacks Bandit Bringer like, 50% of the time I'd say. Once again, always good experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brent-quest Report post Posted September 4, 2008 If you see your J.HS get IB'ed or SB'ed and you're pretty sure you're going to get thrown do a BR frc and you should be safe. Sol's oki is all about forcing the mind game. A well timed jump in leads to TONS of options, and much like game plan it's all about making them fear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cadenza Report post Posted September 4, 2008 I don't want to have to spend 25% tension for that though. It's really not a bad idea but it's something you can't get predictable with. And yeah, I mean I currently can't practice any variations of my current oki so I have a problem with his IB/SB shenanigans. For regular people it's not bad at all. Training mode will alleviate the issue, so long as I can find another PS2. Don't get it twisted though, Marlin isn't that simple. :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Juice Report post Posted September 5, 2008 You should be able to throw tech if your j.H is IB'd, but the timing is a bit awkward. If you're worried about getting PB'd on landing, just jump up when you land and then punish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reaVer Report post Posted September 5, 2008 iirc you can do j.S in such a way you don't land in throw range, imo that's the thing you should go for. If you can't do that and you see/feel that your j.S will be IGed, then doublejump out or dj.S-H/D if you feel confident. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites