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Hatred Edge

[Accent Core] Sol Badguy General Discussion

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Active for 7 frames if you do the math properly. Blocked Fafnir = opponent has to be defensive, which is good. Properly timed, a 5S is uninterruptable after it's blocked, and a 5HS at that range is highly likely to counterhit anything they would try to do, which means huge pain. Combine this with the throw invincibility and you actually have an ok wakeup option, especially if you aren't in a position for a meaty j.S or GF FRC. So yeah, Hatred Edge, stop saying the move is worthless.

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+7 for what? Sol can't do crap unless its a CH or clean. So what now? Stop using it. And you will ALWAYS be too far away to do anything. It puts the opponent in long blockstun. That's great seeing as how Sol's mixup is so lacking, on block accomplishes so much<sarcasm>. It could be neutral on block and you'll be in the same situation.

Originally I thought maybe Sol had the speed boost and clean hit added to fafnir to function as some sort of midrange attack but no..fafnir has NO PRIORITY AT ALL. It can only beat/punish moves that have long startups(Potemkin 6HS) or moves that have bad recovery(Johnny's 6HS no mist-cancel on block).

The reason fafnir isn't labelled as "worthless" is because on clean or CH Sol can do big damage. Fantastic for a move that has crap priority.

close enough.

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Okay... I said: -lacks priority READ trying to do one can result it in being stuffed EASILY. -can't be used as a mid range attack -You're too far away to do anything READ: you can run in but you can still run in under GF FRC or no GF FRC. That isn't unique. Hey you can IAD in too. Those aren't fafnir exclusive... +does big damage on Clean or CH. +Lacks priority but can attain large damage. Hell anymove of Sol's that can lead to big damage will never be called worthless. Not even Dragon Install... I guess I was wrong to point out the OBVIOUS weaknesses in Fafnir. Like the rest of you did with Grand Viper. What if someone comes in here and asks:"Hey 90% of the time I do fafnir it loses? Why?" But fine. Whatever.

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Fafnir is only good in certain situations. It's not something you can just do and win. But when used properly, it can be good enough. I already listed some good setups, but I'll do it again: - After GF fake it can surprise people - If they try to attack or jump after a late blocked GF - After f.s,2s (whiff) it can surprise too if they don't attack you immediately, so don't be predictable with this string - After a blocked 2S is sometimes good - You can do some anti-throw setups with it by staying in throw range and empty jumping These are the 'setups' I use it from. If someone knows more good setups should post them. ;)

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I know 2S is +3 on block and van therefore be used for frame traps such as 2S, Fafnir. 2P is also +2, and used in frame traps and as a tick throw. My question is: Can 2S be used as an effective tick throw? It usually leaves me too far out for Wild Throw, so do I need a running 2S? I find that when my opponent crouches, my tick throws are worthless as Sol sticks his hand out over the opponent's head like an idiot, and I get killed. So I'm thinking, I need an overhead strike to be the other half of my tick throw game. I'd like to have as many mixup options as I can, and I'm amassing quite a few.

2S is not an effective tick throw but it can work. any tick you need to dash for is not as good as if it's one where you're already in range and can just do it or walk very slightly into it.

wild throw has less range vs crouching opponents (not sure on character specifics) but in good tick throw setups this won't matter unless they FD. take into account that if they are standing blocking they may walk back slightly which you do not want.

don't mixup overheads with command grab, it's a shitty mixup, though I dunno about this jS thing is you're talking about. I assume you mean that jump in oki jS or whiffed jS into grab, in which case yea that's a good mixup but I don't see why a DP wouldn't beat it unless they are in GF frc blockstun or something. the most solid mixup you can do is to mixup low gatlings with tick grab because options used to escape tick grabs generally cause them to get hit if you did a low attack. people holding low block mashing on 2P beats that kinda mixup sometimes because it's a dumb option select so to deal with that you should gatling to 6P or do a non-gatling 2D to get a 70% life counterhit combo.

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Mashing 2P can only beat if you do you Wild Throw from some range and not from close (from example if you do late j.s,2p and then dash in throw -- they can 2p you here easily, so 6P comes handy more here). There are some unmashable setups from 2p, 5p, late j.p/j.s if done right. But you should be careful to be outside the normal throw range, so they won't grab you (WT obviously has more range than normal throws).

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In case anyone was wondering... AC+ ex sol... Big gun flame is now EX move... Faster to come out yadda yadda... EX grand viper is old school grand viper, but faster. Allows you from max range stand hs(on standing even)to combo into it. F+p staggers. So yes f+p, f+hs is combo. Air gun flame has FRC? Did it before? I thought only ground did... I forget though. Also I dont recall if it comboed as it does now... But its a ex character so come on.. Throw me a bone here. Slide is slower??? Hurricane kick overhead was raped. Seems slower and whats more now it slides. Unfortantly slide is very unforgiving with combos. Hard to hit period unless your in the corner... Grand viper super is now basicly slayers big punch super. Does a lot of damage sticks to the wall, automaticly sticks guy to corner. You get the idea. Jump dust knocks off wall on normal hit. I think thats it.

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on second thought, qcf+k, you can pretty easily get stand s, stand hs, iad p, k, d, to dust loop. Anywhere.... Pretty umm yea easy to.. Im of the opinon that regular sols iad p from stand hs, takes some timeing.. But this is pretty easy.. Maybe ex sol has faster air dash, or faster jab. Shrug

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Which ones are you referring to? I didn't see anything new at all, just the usual frame traps. 5p, 2p, c.S setups are as old as Sol Badguy himself.

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ive done the WT after a blocked GF FRC a couple of times and after the bandit revovler but i figured that was old news ;o

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I think I said it before but ill say it again(since well now I played AC+ as well)... In versions other then the original you can get more side winder loops then before. Also the one bug that randomly made all your hits do 1 damage doesnt seem to exist. So to the people the use to complain that sol did more damage in japanese version then he was suppose to well, you can acctualy do more side winders in the other versions, theres not the random bug that makes all your hits do 1 damage... So yea the damage is not ummmm diff to say...

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I saw one good tick throw set-up there but other than that it was the usual shenanigans with the GF frc and such. Good vid though @Tsak: I wouldn't go for the BR into a WT anymore. You find that the better you and your opponent gets the more shitty of a grab set-up it is..-_-.

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I saw one good tick throw set-up there but other than that it was the usual shenanigans with the GF frc and such. Good vid though

@Tsak: I wouldn't go for the BR into a WT anymore. You find that the better you and your opponent gets the more shitty of a grab set-up it is..-_-.

i never do go for in tourney

its a causals lol i gotcha bitch thing

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That might work here and there but not sure if that's going to work all the time. Good player can block GV from that range. I would recommend FDing run in's and jump-ins.

I think easiest CLSW loop is just 2HS > j.S > SW or just j.S > SW. Off GV, j.S > SW into anything else you want to do, 2HS > j.S or 2HS > SW.

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I think I said it before but ill say it again(since well now I played AC+ as well)... In versions other then the original you can get more side winder loops then before. Also the one bug that randomly made all your hits do 1 damage doesnt seem to exist. So to the people the use to complain that sol did more damage in japanese version then he was suppose to well' date=' you can acctualy do more side winders in the other versions, theres not the random bug that makes all your hits do 1 damage... So yea the damage is not ummmm diff to say...[/quote']

Sol does more damage in pre-AC+ JPN AC than he should be doing. It's not a matter of what combos he can or cannot do (though the fact that his combos are different at all should just invalidate any arguments based on JPN AC). The problem is not "Sol does these combos now," it's "Sol does 30-80 more damage doing the same combos."

So yes, the damage IS different if you have to do more Sidewinders to do similar damage.

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You'll also notice that the SAME combo, does different damage each time you perform it(depending on how many times you score the double CH bug).

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You pretty much just use the increased untechable time on it to relaunch. Simple way to do it is like j.D > 2H > j.S > j.K > j.D > BR > 5K cancel into 2H > j.S > HVV. Sometimes you want to skip the j.S or j.K on certain characters. I really only use it when I miss a sidewinder opportunity or something. And although sidewinder still clearly does more damage, it comes pretty close and is useful for when you react badly and miss a sidewinder opportunity somehow.

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Maybe he's talking about the multiple TK BR loop. It should go like this: IAD j.S, j.D, BR -land- [K (1 hit), TK BR]x 3-5, K, BR In the 1st/2nd rep. you should be able to relaunch with [K, j.P, j.K, SWCH] as long as you're in the corner. You can bring your rival into the corner with the first ones. The launcher can also be a K (CH) / 2+HS AA.

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